Posted by Allanfan20:

Oh Bonn that is not true at all. Extreme acts go under many different names. Money, power, racism, hatred towards another person, group, country, territory, animals rights extremists (Oh they are f'in stupid and would kill.).

I actually think GKF had it right when he said that people sometimes say religion is the reason, but it's really an excuse covering up something different, like greed.

Well I'd definitely say many of those other things are bad too or at least have bad aspects (money, power, racism...)
That said, I've never heard someone declare, "I'm committing this crime in the name of money [or hatred or whatever]" like they do in the name of religion. Often, money, power, racism, etc. are merely our interpretations of others' criminal behavior, and they are interpretations that may or may not be correct. An interpretation of someone's behavior strikes me as fundamentally different from the explicit admission of a reason by the criminal. Nevertheless, if I wanted to play devil's advocate, then I'm not sure what those examples prove other than that religion is one of many, rather than the only, things that lead to crimes against innocent people. If this is the case, then those other examples should not change the answer to the question posed for this thread. (I say Devil's advocate because I've already given my view.)

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 04-29-2009 5:38 PM]

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by Allanfan20:

Bonn, just remember one thing, it usually IS the extremists of any kind that stir up the most trouble. The religious extremists included. It tends to be a small percentage of the population, but they make the most noise.

So if there were atheist extremists, you'd think we know about it. Maybe there just aren't many?

There are plenty of serial killers, murderers, kidnappers, anarchists who kill or cause problems in the name of a cause, who are atheists. But because there is no religion attached to it there is no reason to attach religion to the conversation. They are still extremists, they just aren't giving any particular group a bad name. Religious extremists do however give a group a bad name.

No, the difference is that the religious extremists commit their acts *in the name of their religion*; atheists are not committing bad acts in the name of atheism but rather for reasons irrelevant to any discussion of religion.

So that's the point. There are plenty of extreme acts that are committed in the name of anything under the sun. Extremists committ acts in the name of anarchy, global warming, race, abortion, or just because. So why do we tend to respond when an extremist committs an act in the name of religion?

I'd say that is NOT the case and that extreme acts--life taking acts--are seldom committed under any name other than religion. (Often no name or specific reason will be given though.)

I guess I dont' get your point. An extreme act is committed everyday. Those that aren't religious use invoke religion to justify their actions. In return we react against those that are religious as if they are part of the extreme. So is religion bad or are the people that use it to drive their own agenda the bad ones?

[Edited by - bippity10 on 29-04-2009 1:39 PM]

Are guns or bullets bad?

Posted by Bippity10:

Posted by Allanfan20:

Bonn, just remember one thing, it usually IS the extremists of any kind that stir up the most trouble. The religious extremists included. It tends to be a small percentage of the population, but they make the most noise.

So if there were atheist extremists, you'd think we know about it. Maybe there just aren't many?

There are plenty of serial killers, murderers, kidnappers, anarchists who kill or cause problems in the name of a cause, who are atheists. But because there is no religion attached to it there is no reason to attach religion to the conversation. They are still extremists, they just aren't giving any particular group a bad name. Religious extremists do however give a group a bad name.

I don't really understand your first sentence about Atheism. For example (picking out your serial killer example) did Jeffery Dahmer believe in God I don't know but really who cares it had absolutely nothing to do with his actions nor did he ever claim it impacted his actions. Just like him being white or him being from Wisconsin had nothing to do with his actions. There maybe some extreme Atheist group underground but why would a person who does not believe in any God or participate in any organized religion allow their non-belief to impact their actions? Wouldn't that go against the very definition of that type of belief system?

In terms of extremism I think you first have to identify what acts under what circumstances are extreme. A suicide bomber is an extreme believer are they considered extreme by their own community' standards? Were the Catholics and Protestants that fought against one another in Northern Ireland extremists? Or the waring that has gone on between the Hindus and Muslims (Pakistan and India)? Again are all these groups extremists for their actions?