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Excellent and realistic offseason scenario
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BRIGGS
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3/18/2009  1:24 AM
Posted by TMS:

i have to disagree w/u here bro... Willie Warren hasn't really been more productive this season than Derozan if u look at their numbers side by side... the only thing Warren's done better than Demar this year is shoot 3's... he also has more assists but Demar has more rebounds & also shoots a much higher percentage overall... & compare Derozan's freshman year stats to Jeff Teague's stats his freshman year & it's a similar deal w/the Warren comparison... as for Eric Maynor, the guy's a 6'3" 175 lb. senior, a full 2 years older than Derozan w/3 more seasons of college ball experience... if u compare his sophomore year stats to Derozan's it's almost the same deal as the previous 2 guys' in relation to Demar also, & his freshman year stats don't even begin to compare to the other 3, not to mention he doesn't have close to the NBA ready body that Derozan already has at 19.

Derozan's still raw no doubt but not many 19 year olds are polished players at that age... compare his freshman stats to those put up by Michael Jordan his 1st year at UNC, they're very comparable also

http://www.michaeljordansworld.com/college_stats.htm
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Demar-DeRozan-1319/

obviously i'm not assuming he's the next MJ but i don't see Demar's freshman year stats all that bad to tell u the truth... i bet if he stayed in college he'd easily be the consensus top pick in next year's draft.

I don't have faith in the Knicks. If they couldn't see how good A Randolph wouldve been for this system[oh the dreaded 3 point requirement] and fit next to a David Lee [and really couldve helped us get to the playoffs this year] and what type of long term prospect he was--than there is very little faith that the Knicks are savvy enough to look at Derozan and do what it takes to acquire him. They are going to try now to make the playoffs and end up in the 13th slot which is the absolute worst in basketball. If you end up 13 your team had the worst year out of all of them. You missed the playoffs and you get the worst pick in the lottery. They wont see it that way but there is a reason why we haven't won in 9 years. We'll end up with another player who they feel can help us the best right now or it will simply be traded to get rid of Jefferies.
This is just annoying year after year.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 03-18-2009 01:28 AM]
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Pharzeone
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3/18/2009  1:30 AM
I don't know how I feel about the Knicks having two picks. I'm not confident in them having one at this point.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
BRIGGS
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3/18/2009  1:39 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:

I don't know how I feel about the Knicks having two picks. I'm not confident in them having one at this point.

If they can get Steve Nash and Derozan--resign Nate and Lee I will be happy with that. We do need to fill up the back end of the roster but it's just not the Knicks. We do need big man back ups but it will probably be vet minimum players from a cost standpoint. It will cost 2-3mm for a 1st rounder and then pay them--when a vet big man only cost a few hundred grand because the league picks up the large portion--the Knicks don't really develop players--look at the facts--Ariza Balkman Collins Frye--all gone and they nearly traded Lee and Nate[and I believe they were close to getting nothing for Nate] They want Joe Johnson and Bosh or something like that.
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Pharzeone
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3/18/2009  1:55 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Pharzeone:

I don't know how I feel about the Knicks having two picks. I'm not confident in them having one at this point.

If they can get Steve Nash and Derozan--resign Nate and Lee I will be happy with that. We do need to fill up the back end of the roster but it's just not the Knicks. We do need big man back ups but it will probably be vet minimum players from a cost standpoint. It will cost 2-3mm for a 1st rounder and then pay them--when a vet big man only cost a few hundred grand because the league picks up the large portion--the Knicks don't really develop players--look at the facts--Ariza Balkman Collins Frye--all gone and they nearly traded Lee and Nate[and I believe they were close to getting nothing for Nate] They want Joe Johnson and Bosh or something like that.

Yeah not developing rookies go back for sometime. Van Gundy openly said he doesn't get rookies and can't really develop them. That's why he pushed Grunfeld to trade John Wallace, McCarty and Jones. That went on for sometime. Even under Layden. Still don't get the Harvey trade at all. Isiah to a degree with his multiple coaches as well. I don't think Gallo was being coached up either before he was shut down.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
TMS
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3/18/2009  2:03 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:

If they can get Steve Nash and Derozan--resign Nate and Lee I will be happy with that.

if it goes down like that i'll be satisfied too... then whatever happens in 2010 happens... but at least i'll be comforted in knowing we have a prospect w/real superstar potential that could be the franchise guy to build around some day... we haven't had that since the Ewing days.

this really pisses me off that the Knicks never land prospects like this cuz they're always trying to sneak into the #8 seed by any means necessary every single damn year, or try to finish the year on a so-called "positive note" by winning a few completely meaningless games that have absolutely no bearing on any playoff hopes at the very end of the season... we lose out on the Lebron's, Wade's, Melo's, Bosh's & Mayo's & end up w/the freakin' Sweetney's & Frye's... it pisses me off to no end... when will this franchise & this fanbase finally wake the F up to the fact that we ain't going anywhere until we land ourselves a franchise calibre talent to build around?!?!
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
OasisBU
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3/18/2009  9:39 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:


Do what it takes to draft Demar Derozan--he has superstar written all over him

Buy 1 pick in the 18-24 range and draft Jeff Pendergraph from ASU He's perfect for the pick and pop very athletic and long great fundamentals and best mid range shooter in college basketball and nearly 6-10

Sign Steve Nash G 5 years 30mm team option on last year.

Sign Nate 4 years 30mm$

Sign David Lee 6 years 45MM

Re-work contracts of Jefferies have him opt out and sign 3 years 12mm[saves nearly 4mmm in year 2010]

Work Curry hard to get him in shape to see if we can work out a trade next year.

Briggs, you are forgetting that this would require 2 things:
1) The Knicks draft someone we actually want and need
2) The Knicks purchase a draft pick from another team

Two things I have yet to see happen as a fan here but maybe Donnie will be different.

The one thing I dislike about all the trade scenarios and draft scenarios is that we pile on tons of moves and teams usually do not make 4-5 moves, you get 2 if you are lucky. It is nice to throw scenarios out there but they should at least be realistic.

So do you think the Knicks would actually draft a potential superstar, buy a pick, and get Nash? I would say they would either not buy the pick or not sign Nash - with Mike D here it is more likely we would get Nash and just use our Draft pick or the pick could be traded.

"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
BRIGGS
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3/18/2009  12:29 PM
Posted by OasisBU:
Posted by BRIGGS:


Do what it takes to draft Demar Derozan--he has superstar written all over him

Buy 1 pick in the 18-24 range and draft Jeff Pendergraph from ASU He's perfect for the pick and pop very athletic and long great fundamentals and best mid range shooter in college basketball and nearly 6-10

Sign Steve Nash G 5 years 30mm team option on last year.

Sign Nate 4 years 30mm$

Sign David Lee 6 years 45MM

Re-work contracts of Jefferies have him opt out and sign 3 years 12mm[saves nearly 4mmm in year 2010]

Work Curry hard to get him in shape to see if we can work out a trade next year.

Briggs, you are forgetting that this would require 2 things:
1) The Knicks draft someone we actually want and need
2) The Knicks purchase a draft pick from another team

Two things I have yet to see happen as a fan here but maybe Donnie will be different.

The one thing I dislike about all the trade scenarios and draft scenarios is that we pile on tons of moves and teams usually do not make 4-5 moves, you get 2 if you are lucky. It is nice to throw scenarios out there but they should at least be realistic.

So do you think the Knicks would actually draft a potential superstar, buy a pick, and get Nash? I would say they would either not buy the pick or not sign Nash - with Mike D here it is more likely we would get Nash and just use our Draft pick or the pick could be traded.

If we can rework Jefferies and Curry's contracts[or trade them] we can sign Lee and Nate[and we need to] bring in Nash on the MLE and have room for one player---Bosh in 2 years. Wed be perfectly set up. I don't mind giving up an extra pick in 2012 with some cash to make sure I get Derozan--it will be worth every penny--the key is we DO NOT want less than the 10 position because flipping from 6 or 7 to 10 and gaining a pick + cash might be very attractive to a team but falling out to 13 is a little far.
RIP Crushalot😞
martin
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3/18/2009  12:43 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by OasisBU:
Posted by BRIGGS:


Do what it takes to draft Demar Derozan--he has superstar written all over him

Buy 1 pick in the 18-24 range and draft Jeff Pendergraph from ASU He's perfect for the pick and pop very athletic and long great fundamentals and best mid range shooter in college basketball and nearly 6-10

Sign Steve Nash G 5 years 30mm team option on last year.

Sign Nate 4 years 30mm$

Sign David Lee 6 years 45MM

Re-work contracts of Jefferies have him opt out and sign 3 years 12mm[saves nearly 4mmm in year 2010]

Work Curry hard to get him in shape to see if we can work out a trade next year.

Briggs, you are forgetting that this would require 2 things:
1) The Knicks draft someone we actually want and need
2) The Knicks purchase a draft pick from another team

Two things I have yet to see happen as a fan here but maybe Donnie will be different.

The one thing I dislike about all the trade scenarios and draft scenarios is that we pile on tons of moves and teams usually do not make 4-5 moves, you get 2 if you are lucky. It is nice to throw scenarios out there but they should at least be realistic.

So do you think the Knicks would actually draft a potential superstar, buy a pick, and get Nash? I would say they would either not buy the pick or not sign Nash - with Mike D here it is more likely we would get Nash and just use our Draft pick or the pick could be traded.

If we can rework Jefferies and Curry's contracts[or trade them] we can sign Lee and Nate[and we need to] bring in Nash on the MLE and have room for one player---Bosh in 2 years. Wed be perfectly set up. I don't mind giving up an extra pick in 2012 with some cash to make sure I get Derozan--it will be worth every penny--the key is we DO NOT want less than the 10 position because flipping from 6 or 7 to 10 and gaining a pick + cash might be very attractive to a team but falling out to 13 is a little far.

I have been doing a lot of looking into the possibilities of reworking contracts, and simply said, you cannot. Gotta trade them.
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JohnWallace44
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3/18/2009  12:50 PM
Here's my "excellent and realistic scenario":

#1 - Sign and trade Lee and our #11ish pick for the Thunder's #5ish pick and the #27ish pick (from spurs) and Damien Wilkins (expiring)
- If Thabeet drops to that early pick, take him. If he's taken, take Evans.

#2 - Sign and trade Nate for the #6ish pick from Minnesota and Randy Foye (expiring)
- Take Demar Derozan

- with the #27 pick you either take Larry Sanders (if we didn't get Thabeet) or Christmas from Temple

This way you're ending up with either
Evans(6'9") - Derozan (6'7") - Sanders (6'9") or
Thabeet (7'4") - Evans(6'9") - Christmas (6'5")

You add that to a remaining core of Hughes, Al, Chandler, Duhon, Gallo, Jeffries and you're going to end up being able to out physical almost any team with your size and athleticism.


Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
djsunyc
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3/18/2009  12:51 PM
you can't sign and trade on draft night. lee + nate can't be dealt until july 1st at the earliest.
JohnWallace44
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3/18/2009  12:58 PM
You can have them pick for you though.

That is interesting. I forgot about that window. My biggest concern is that we'll just let Lee and Nate walk.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
BRIGGS
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3/18/2009  1:02 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by OasisBU:
Posted by BRIGGS:


Do what it takes to draft Demar Derozan--he has superstar written all over him

Buy 1 pick in the 18-24 range and draft Jeff Pendergraph from ASU He's perfect for the pick and pop very athletic and long great fundamentals and best mid range shooter in college basketball and nearly 6-10

Sign Steve Nash G 5 years 30mm team option on last year.

Sign Nate 4 years 30mm$

Sign David Lee 6 years 45MM

Re-work contracts of Jefferies have him opt out and sign 3 years 12mm[saves nearly 4mmm in year 2010]

Work Curry hard to get him in shape to see if we can work out a trade next year.

Briggs, you are forgetting that this would require 2 things:
1) The Knicks draft someone we actually want and need
2) The Knicks purchase a draft pick from another team

Two things I have yet to see happen as a fan here but maybe Donnie will be different.

The one thing I dislike about all the trade scenarios and draft scenarios is that we pile on tons of moves and teams usually do not make 4-5 moves, you get 2 if you are lucky. It is nice to throw scenarios out there but they should at least be realistic.

So do you think the Knicks would actually draft a potential superstar, buy a pick, and get Nash? I would say they would either not buy the pick or not sign Nash - with Mike D here it is more likely we would get Nash and just use our Draft pick or the pick could be traded.

If we can rework Jefferies and Curry's contracts[or trade them] we can sign Lee and Nate[and we need to] bring in Nash on the MLE and have room for one player---Bosh in 2 years. Wed be perfectly set up. I don't mind giving up an extra pick in 2012 with some cash to make sure I get Derozan--it will be worth every penny--the key is we DO NOT want less than the 10 position because flipping from 6 or 7 to 10 and gaining a pick + cash might be very attractive to a team but falling out to 13 is a little far.

I have been doing a lot of looking into the possibilities of reworking contracts, and simply said, you cannot. Gotta trade them.

They cant opt out and sign new contracts?
RIP Crushalot😞
djsunyc
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3/18/2009  1:02 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

You can have them pick for you though.

That is interesting. I forgot about that window. My biggest concern is that we'll just let Lee and Nate walk.

lee + nate walking for nothing would be negligence and should warrant an immediate dismissal as gm.
djsunyc
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3/18/2009  1:04 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

They cant opt out and sign new contracts?

unless the contract specifically has an opt-out, they can't do it. jeffries has one after the 2009 season. but curry does not. any re-structuring means they have to be bought out altogether and they are no longer with the team.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 03-18-2009 1:04 PM]
JohnWallace44
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3/18/2009  1:04 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

You can have them pick for you though.

That is interesting. I forgot about that window. My biggest concern is that we'll just let Lee and Nate walk.

lee + nate walking for nothing would be negligence and should warrant an immediate dismissal as gm.

The Lewis S&T between Seattle and Orlando was on July 11th.

That was probably the last big one right?

The Curry one was later in the year if I remember right.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
djsunyc
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3/18/2009  1:05 PM
yeah, you CAN do a S&T for the rights to the draft pick after july 1st, but in essence, an agreement would have to be made by draft night and not disclosed until after july 1.
JohnWallace44
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3/18/2009  5:10 PM
Its really hard to peg what Lee and Nate's value would be in trades like this.

What was Curry's trade outside of the switched #1's? Because there was no guarantee that we wouldn't have been better than Chicago for those years. Just Sweetney and expirings?

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
JohnWallace44
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3/18/2009  5:51 PM
If you throw out our ability to do sign and trades, we could buy two late picks and end up with Maynor(@12), Christmas(@25), Larry Sanders (@28)

Then you could match with Lee and Nate and see what you could get with them later in the year.

Maynor - Hughes - Chandler - Lee - Sanders
Nate - Christmas - Gallo - Jeffries

The very odd thing from a Knicks perspective would be that all of these players minus Jeffries would be tradable assets.

You know our system is going to make them look good. Maybe you get to next year's deadline on a bit of a roll and make preemptive trades to get some of the 2010 talent before they hit Free Agency.

Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
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Excellent and realistic offseason scenario
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