Posted by Rookie:

I'm not comparing him to N8 because I don't think N8 is a starting PG on 'this' team. I think he's a HUGE upgrade to Duhon. As far as N8, I think as much as he says he wants to be a Knick, he's going to seriously test the FA market to maximize his value. At the end of the day, we might need to do a sign and trade to try and get something back. Would you sign N8 @ 8-10M?

N8 is more of a combo guard. Sessions is a pure PG with good size for his position and great quickness. He is starting to develop his outside game at the NBA level. He looks like he can be a mature pass first floor general with enough quickness to score at will (once he fully develops). He could excel at running an up-tempo offense. You don't think the kid has upside?

now your giving me something to talk about.

I would not try to trade Nate for "something" unless that involved moving to pick 1-2 and taking Harden or Griffen.

Yes, Nate is a combo gaurd. So is Chauncy Billups and he was a finals MVP. Lots of good scoring PGs. I think Nate has matured enough to consider him at the PG position full time.

Yes Sessions has upside. But not close to Nate's IMO. Nate has shown athletic abilities you cant teach that RS doesn have. Nate is faster and quicker than RS and probably 10 times as strong.

would I give Nate 8-100mm? Where does that # come from? Who is offering him that?

I would say this: If we start Nate at PG rest of the year, play .500 ball and he puts up those #s I mentioned before dont you think that a PG that does those things is worth $8-$10mm????

Posted by Rookie:

Posted by fishmike:

thats all good... but again, whats the plan?

Nate is an RFA. Do we match offers for him? He's shown star potential and has had monster games when given the minutes. If I am one of the 2-3 teams with cap space I think VERY hard about giving Nate a chance to PG my team. The upside is tremendous.

Nate is giving you 18/4/4 off the bench, scores at 45% and gets tons of steals.

Nate has had 7 starts. In those he's averaged 37 minutes, 21 points, 46% FGs, 4 rebounds, 6.5 assists 1.3 steals and 2.7 TOs.

He's 24 years old.

Tell me again why we would be looking to give Ramon Sessions the full MLE

Because it makes the team better. We need a starting PG. I think it's pretty clear that it isn't Duhon. I'm not sure who you would get to run this team for less than the MLE, any suggestions?

A couple things.. Sessions has not played heavy minutes. Duhon was playing VERY well earlier in the year and hit a wall. Most agree he cant handle that workload. Why are you assuming Sessions can? He's played will in backup minutes. Thats a red flag.

I agree Duhon isnt the PG of the future here. With you 100% on that.

Let me ask you this: What cant you see Nate being able to do that has you looking to guys like Sessions to be the PG of this team for the next 5 years?

Its possible that Nate isnt a good PG, that a dynamic combo sparkplug type guy is his ceiling. He still has great value. His scoring isnt good, its great. He's certainly proved he can play the backup PG role. He's proved he can impact games in crunch time and win. Why wouldnt we keep this guy and see what he yields? He's a homegrown Knick and plays his ass off and wants to win.. HERE. Since when are we looking to replace that?

"I would not try to trade Nate for "something" unless that involved moving to pick 1-2 and taking Harden or Griffen."

That could very well be the plan. I would also add Hill to that list.

"Yes, Nate is a combo gaurd. So is Chauncy Billups and he was a finals MVP. Lots of good scoring PGs. I think Nate has matured enough to consider him at the PG position full time."

N8 is very good in his role, but not sure he fits MDA's long term role as a pass first starting PG (Sessions could fit that role on an MLE). N8 should definitely win 6th man this year. This is where he excels. Can you pay a 6th man 8-10M? Sure, but it's a chunk of cap space. Laker's pay their 6th man Odom 14M.

"Yes Sessions has upside. But not close to Nate's IMO. Nate has shown athletic abilities you cant teach that RS doesn have. Nate is faster and quicker than RS and probably 10 times as strong."

Their definitely not the same type of player. Sessions can excel at running an offense. N8 can excel at giving you 12 quick points off the bench. A back court of Sessions/Hughes and N8 could give a coach alot of options...and all can score

"I would say this: If we start Nate at PG rest of the year, play .500 ball and he puts up those #s I mentioned before dont you think that a PG that does those things is worth $8-$10mm????"

That is the million dollar question.

There are a ton of solid guards coming out in this yrs draft. Signing Sessions wouldn't be one of the smarter moves.

there are a few things here. Knick fans are not used to a normal progression of talented players because we have never had any. The Knicks drafted Ewing and who else? Charlie Ward? This franchise has never used the draft to develop players. Now we are looking at a pair of guys in Lee and Nate who are home grown guys and fans have no idea what to think or do with them.

Here is what most normal teams do:
Draft player and develop them. When their contracts are up they resign them to something the market dictates. Thats all I am saying we should do with Lee and Nate, who are good players and continue to develop and improve. You can always trade them down the road to another team for a better fit. Good players are usually traded for other good players. Lee and Nate are good players.

Now the Knicks are their fans are not normal because the best player since Magic Johnson, Michael and Shaq will be signing here in 2010 and we have to prepare for that.

That little tidbit aside a normally run NBA team would lock up Lee and Nate, increase their roles and address other weaknesses on the roster.

I am not overly enamored with Nate, but he's a very good player, a player we need and a homegrown guy that should be brought back. He brings some things that are hard to find and he makes things happen when he's on the floor.

Sessions strikes me as a totally complimentary guy. Like Duhon he will only look as good as the roster he's playing on.

If we are going to use the MLE lets go for an impact player. Artest or Odom. If we are going to trade lets get a bigman. We need a center.

Rookie, i would be very interested in Sessions if we end up trading Duhon, but my guess is the MLE will be used to extend Nate's contract if anything, so i doubt the Knicks take on another longterm contract... who knows, Sessions can definitely ball tho, can't argue w/u on his talent.

Posted by PresIke:

Posted by TMS:

Rookie, i would be very interested in Sessions if we end up trading Duhon, but my guess is the MLE will be used to extend Nate's contract if anything, so i doubt the Knicks take on another longterm contract... who knows, Sessions can definitely ball tho, can't argue w/u on his talent.

we won't have to use the mle to sign nate because he's already on our team. we can sign him from the qualifying offer to up to whatever the max is allowed for a player coming off of a rookie scale contract.

we could sign nate to numbers around the mle, but my guess is he'll get somewhere between 6-9 mil a year.

the mle is used to sign free-agents from another team when you are over the cap and can't add new players. the other most common exception is the low level exception, which is usually for a pretty far end bench player that i don't think will be enough $ to sign someone like sessions.

[Edited by - PresIke on 03-13-2009 3:53 PM]

i get all that but i'm saying the dollars we allot to Nate longterm will be used up on the cap, & w/Donnie focusing so much on the 2010 plan i don't see him adding another player for similar dollars longterm... sorry, shoulda explained it differently.

Sessions hasn't guaranteed that he is that either. The difference is we wouldn't be spending 20-30mil in order to find out. In this coming draft we could use our 2nd rd pick and have a great shot at finding a gem at PG.

And I like Sessions, but its not the best business decision with the amount of quality guards set to come out this draft. We could even use that mid level on other needs if we were looking to spend it.

This is exactly right. If you sign a FA point guard, then you turn what is a perfectly set up draft for the Knicks and turn it into a crap shoot with only a few hit or miss prospects.

I thought that the Donnie-MikeD regime was going to be more about building through the draft and signing legitimate stars instead of trying to hit on developing fringe players like Isiah tried to do with JJ1, JJ2, Curry, Steph, Crawford, etc.

If we sign a guy like Sessions or resign a guy like Nate, I just want to believe that Mike and Donnie believe in their heart of hearts that this is THE GUY they want to build the franchise around. Don't just guess and keep guessing like Isiah did. Especially with the idea that we're trying to get under the cap, there's just no room for error so you'd better be sure.

Do you want a guy who will do well though, or is that not good enough in the current mindset?

In the Isiah days we would take flyers on guys to basically try to notch the talent level up and up and up without a real plan. We ended up with a bunch of talented dudes who didn't fit together at all.

I hope we're past that. We already have Duhon. Giving another PG the midlevel this year would be a bad sign.

Posted by JohnWallace44:


If we sign a guy like Sessions or resign a guy like Nate, I just want to believe that Mike and Donnie believe in their heart of hearts that this is THE GUY they want to build the franchise around. Don't just guess and keep guessing like Isiah did. Especially with the idea that we're trying to get under the cap, there's just no room for error so you'd better be sure.

not every player you sign is the guy your building around. Nate and Lee are good players that are getting better and can win you some games. They are home grown talent and good NBA players. Just because we resign them doesnt meant they are the face of the franchise for the next 6 years.

I know Sota sucks, but Nate had a stomach flu and looked pretty good as our starting PG most of the night. What did he end with? 25/7/6 or something like that in a win that we had to have. Seems like when all else fails he can get himself to the FT line.