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DLee - We've already seen the best he'll ever be
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King1
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3/9/2009  11:32 PM
I hope Lee can trick some team into giving him 5/20 million.
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King1
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3/9/2009  11:35 PM
Why doesnt anyone talk about all the guards that go off on us every night. I wish David would try and block 6 shots in the first half and listen to you bitch watching Wilcox and Gallinari inside trying to get a rebound. Nate is the worst defensive player I have ever seen he never goes over a screen and get over powered every night. Get used to griping about Lee because he will be around another 5 years
BasketballJones
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3/10/2009  12:52 AM
Posted by King1:

Why doesnt anyone talk about all the guards that go off on us every night.

Yeah, David needs to do something about those guys.
https:// It's not so hard.
GKFv2
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3/10/2009  1:10 AM
Posted by King1:

Why doesnt anyone talk about all the guards that go off on us every night. I wish David would try and block 6 shots in the first half and listen to you bitch watching Wilcox and Gallinari inside trying to get a rebound. Nate is the worst defensive player I have ever seen he never goes over a screen and get over powered every night. Get used to griping about Lee because he will be around another 5 years

I hope David Lee goes to another team so you can go bother another forum with your bias.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
TMS
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3/10/2009  1:17 AM
Posted by GKFv2:

Go to presence in the paint? LOL. What? What exactly have we seen from him this year for that to even be remotely close? This guy is a backup. That's it. 6th man. Starter on a mediocre to bad team, backup on a good one. He plays 0 defense. 0. He is more concerned with grabbing the board off the missed shot than putting a hand in someone's face of challenging someone or manning up and defending. He is soft. Call me a hater but I've had enough of this guy and the overrating of him by the entire fanbase. He isn't that good. Not even close.

i disagree... offensively i think he's taken some major strides this season... defensively however, it's a completely different story... i think he may have even regressed a little, if that was even possible... i don't even think he's interested in playing any defense this year because he's playing for that contract & wants to be out on the court as much as possible & his 1st priority seems to be on getting into position to grab rebounds over anything else.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
fishmike
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3/10/2009  8:59 AM
the problem is where does Lee play? When he's playing center he out everything his opponents. FG%, TOs, PFs, rebs and points are all better than his opponent. Only stat he gets beat in are (obviously) blocks.

PF is another story. He simply gets destroyed there. As NBA power forwards go Lee simply isnt on a par talent wise and it shows on the floor.

That being said I can still see Lee as key piece to the frontcourt on a winning team. Maybe he does come off the bench and split minutes at pf/c for 35 a night. He's shown he can be super productive against quality bigs. Lee had monster games against the Spurs and Suns in those wins.

Lee has a big hole in his game but does an awful lot of things well that other bigs dont as well. He may not be the piece you build around, but he's definatly a piece.

If people didnt have a Lebron hard on nobody would be thinking twice about signing a 25 year old frontcourt player getting 17/12 everynight on 57% FGs
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TheGame
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3/10/2009  9:23 AM
The overall team defensive issues are not Lee's fault. However, Lee is a bad help defender. In fact, he is probably one of the worst help defenders I have seen in awhile, which is a problem when you are 6'9" and supposed to be our last line of defense. I have no doubt Lee can play better defense; he is simply too athletic not to be able to play better. Maybe after he gets his new contract and no longer needs to build up his stats, he will put more work in on his defensive skills.
Trust the Process
arkrud
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3/10/2009  9:52 AM
Posted by fishmike:

the problem is where does Lee play? When he's playing center he out everything his opponents. FG%, TOs, PFs, rebs and points are all better than his opponent. Only stat he gets beat in are (obviously) blocks.

PF is another story. He simply gets destroyed there. As NBA power forwards go Lee simply isnt on a par talent wise and it shows on the floor.

That being said I can still see Lee as key piece to the frontcourt on a winning team. Maybe he does come off the bench and split minutes at pf/c for 35 a night. He's shown he can be super productive against quality bigs. Lee had monster games against the Spurs and Suns in those wins.

Lee has a big hole in his game but does an awful lot of things well that other bigs dont as well. He may not be the piece you build around, but he's definatly a piece.

If people didnt have a Lebron hard on nobody would be thinking twice about signing a 25 year old frontcourt player getting 17/12 everynight on 57% FGs

Every player but may be counted superstars have holes in their game.
Bbal is team game and for club to be successful it must have good coach and GM to collect players to cover each other holes and use them in the game accordingly. To maximize their strength and minimize weaknesses.
The question with Lee in NY is not how big his holes are but how Mike and Walsh are planning to construct this team.
If Lee will became a bad feet he will be surely traded. If he will feet well in what they are planning to do he will stay.
And with the Knicks it is not a money question at all.





"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
fishmike
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3/10/2009  10:35 AM
Posted by arkrud:
Bbal is team game and for club to be successful it must have good coach and GM to collect players to cover each other holes and use them in the game accordingly.
could not have said it better myself. Look at the good things Lee does. He's a great passer. He's a great rebounder. His handle is at the point where he can grab a board and start pushing the ball upcourt. His midrange jumper is getting better. His quickness is effective against bigger players. He is super effecient with his 57% FG rate. He's 25. He doesnt draw attention to himself. He's liked by teammates. He's gotten better most every year. He plays hard. He's very consistant.

What he brings is valuable in the NBA. Signing him to a long term deal does not affect his value. When you look at the big contracts DW has given out over the years he's been very fair. He's also shown he will still trade you after giving you the big contract. Antonio Davis and Jalen Rose were both moved early in their big deals for players that better fit the team concept.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
DarkKnicks
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3/10/2009  10:40 AM
Lee will be 26 years old in April. I agree that he has improved, but I dont think he has that much room form improvement, considering the way he plays. You can not start playing defense if you have not done it in your whole career. You just cant. He may improve his shooting a bit, while he starts losing some of his athletism. He will jump less with each season that passes, while he remains undersized...

I think he really deserves something like 40/45 millions in a 5 year contract, here or somewhere else, and thats probably what he is going to accept. I think every team would love to have a David Lee in its roster, just not as a starter, even less as the star of the team, but he should get 25/30 mins at any team easily.
DaJoka
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3/10/2009  10:52 AM
I break down the whole David Lee situation on the webisode. There's a flip side to every coin.

http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=30483
"Why So Serious" DaJoka
King1
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3/10/2009  4:25 PM
GK you sit in your dorm room and try and convince us that Chris Wilcox is better than Lee. Please say something funny today I am bored.
Bippity10
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3/10/2009  4:29 PM
Posted by fishmike:

the problem is where does Lee play? When he's playing center he out everything his opponents. FG%, TOs, PFs, rebs and points are all better than his opponent. Only stat he gets beat in are (obviously) blocks.

PF is another story. He simply gets destroyed there. As NBA power forwards go Lee simply isnt on a par talent wise and it shows on the floor.

That being said I can still see Lee as key piece to the frontcourt on a winning team. Maybe he does come off the bench and split minutes at pf/c for 35 a night. He's shown he can be super productive against quality bigs. Lee had monster games against the Spurs and Suns in those wins.

Lee has a big hole in his game but does an awful lot of things well that other bigs dont as well. He may not be the piece you build around, but he's definatly a piece.

If people didnt have a Lebron hard on nobody would be thinking twice about signing a 25 year old frontcourt player getting 17/12 everynight on 57% FGs

Can't argue with anything you said here.
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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3/10/2009  4:30 PM
Posted by TheGame:

The overall team defensive issues are not Lee's fault. However, Lee is a bad help defender. In fact, he is probably one of the worst help defenders I have seen in awhile, which is a problem when you are 6'9" and supposed to be our last line of defense. I have no doubt Lee can play better defense; he is simply too athletic not to be able to play better. Maybe after he gets his new contract and no longer needs to build up his stats, he will put more work in on his defensive skills.

What, you don't like when your 6-9 athletic big man stands with his hands straight up in the air when guards penetrate?
I just hope that people will like me
TMS
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3/12/2009  2:49 AM
D Lee's low post game has improved dramatically this year... he was posting & toasting McDyess all night long tonight... if u think he's just strictly a PF who only gets his offense off the pick & roll you're not paying attention.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
NineMike2Whiskey
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3/12/2009  2:59 AM
Posted by TMS:

D Lee's low post game has improved dramatically this year... he was posting & toasting McDyess all night long tonight... if u think he's just strictly a PF who only gets his offense off the pick & roll you're not paying attention.

Agreed, he's got that nice drive and spin move, and coupled with his ability to finish with both hands it's a pretty good move. Not money though but who knows if he's still here next season he can learn to draw some contact on that move, we'll have a nice 4th quarter go to move. At least it beats going one on one and chucking 30 footers
TMS
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3/12/2009  3:10 AM
yeah that ability to finish w/both hands combined w/his ability to get back up & make tip ins on his misses so quickly makes him a pretty tough cover in the low post... if he can perfect a turn around J in the offseason he can become a viable go to presence in the paint like i was talking about before... before he does any of that tho i would really like to see him come in next season committed to playing some defense.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
nychamp
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3/12/2009  6:56 AM
Posted by TMS:

D Lee's low post game has improved dramatically this year... he was posting & toasting McDyess all night long tonight... if u think he's just strictly a PF who only gets his offense off the pick & roll you're not paying attention.

Yes he looked great last night, and it's true, he goes right at guys with back to the basket moves with more and more success this year. I don't get it: he plays with such desire/energy/confidence/smarts on offense, why is he such a passive and indifferent wimp on defense? Last night was no exception, he was laying out the red carpet all night for Detroit.

Very satisfying win overall though.
franco12
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3/12/2009  12:16 PM
Posted by nychamp:
Posted by TMS:

D Lee's low post game has improved dramatically this year... he was posting & toasting McDyess all night long tonight... if u think he's just strictly a PF who only gets his offense off the pick & roll you're not paying attention.

Yes he looked great last night, and it's true, he goes right at guys with back to the basket moves with more and more success this year. I don't get it: he plays with such desire/energy/confidence/smarts on offense, why is he such a passive and indifferent wimp on defense? Last night was no exception, he was laying out the red carpet all night for Detroit.

Very satisfying win overall though.

Better yet- if Lee is such a good rebounder, why couldn't he stop McDyss from grabbing 22, and why couldn't he slow Detroit down from outrebounding us by 20+?
martin
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3/12/2009  12:21 PM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by nychamp:
Posted by TMS:

D Lee's low post game has improved dramatically this year... he was posting & toasting McDyess all night long tonight... if u think he's just strictly a PF who only gets his offense off the pick & roll you're not paying attention.

Yes he looked great last night, and it's true, he goes right at guys with back to the basket moves with more and more success this year. I don't get it: he plays with such desire/energy/confidence/smarts on offense, why is he such a passive and indifferent wimp on defense? Last night was no exception, he was laying out the red carpet all night for Detroit.

Very satisfying win overall though.

Better yet- if Lee is such a good rebounder, why couldn't he stop McDyss from grabbing 22, and why couldn't he slow Detroit down from outrebounding us by 20+?

Lee is a good rebounder. Let's separate that from other things. Last night David forgot to put a body on Dice a lot.
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