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So why is Lee so bad on defense?
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K22
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3/8/2009  8:51 PM
IS he like the Bizarro World Ben Wallace or something?
-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
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TMS
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3/8/2009  9:32 PM
another game where D Lee played absolutely no defense inside & didn't even try to contest a shot at the rim, but at least he got his double double.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
islesfan
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3/8/2009  9:51 PM
Posted by TMS:

another game where D Lee played absolutely no defense inside & didn't even try to contest a shot at the rim, but at least he got his double double.

He knows he's going to get paid for one thing. Can't let anything get in the way of staying on the floor and being in position to get defensive rebounds.

We should start a drinking game for every time Lee lets someone get to the basket uncontested.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
King1
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3/8/2009  10:13 PM
It is david Lee fault that devin harris gotr 35 and Vince got 25. The guards lets those players into the lane. Every single game we have a perimeter player has a huge night and it is Lee fault. Nate Robinson and Chris duhon are two of the worst perimeter defender inthe league. Keep your man in frot of you then they dont live in the lane. If Lee tried and block a shot every single time there was a guard in the lane which is every play then he would foul out in the first half.
arkrud
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3/8/2009  10:20 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TMS:

another game where D Lee played absolutely no defense inside & didn't even try to contest a shot at the rim, but at least he got his double double.

He knows he's going to get paid for one thing. Can't let anything get in the way of staying on the floor and being in position to get defensive rebounds.

We should start a drinking game for every time Lee lets someone get to the basket uncontested.

Lee is very smart guy and he knows how to get max possible money from this NBA clowns.
What is the purpose for him to improve defense by giving up stats and playing time?
If he will play the "right way" it will be nothing to show and all you guys will also treat him like garbage that is useless for the team.
The player or coach who is trying to do his job the right way in NY is moron. Nobody needs this here.



"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
TMS
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3/8/2009  10:23 PM
Posted by King1:

It is david Lee fault that devin harris gotr 35 and Vince got 25. The guards lets those players into the lane. Every single game we have a perimeter player has a huge night and it is Lee fault. Nate Robinson and Chris duhon are two of the worst perimeter defender inthe league. Keep your man in frot of you then they dont live in the lane. If Lee tried and block a shot every single time there was a guard in the lane which is every play then he would foul out in the first half.

no, we didn't say it was his fault, just that he doesn't play any interior D... go watch the game again & see how many easy baskets he just allows inside w/o even making an attempt to block a shot or draw a charge... Duhon, Q Rich & Nate played horrible perimeter defense too but that doesn't excuse Lee's complete lack of interest in playing defense inside either... this thread is about Lee afterall... feel free to make a thread about our lack of perimeter defense if u wanna talk about more obvious flaws in this team.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Pharzeone
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3/8/2009  10:27 PM
Posted by King1:

It is david Lee fault that devin harris gotr 35 and Vince got 25. The guards lets those players into the lane. Every single game we have a perimeter player has a huge night and it is Lee fault. Nate Robinson and Chris duhon are two of the worst perimeter defender inthe league. Keep your man in frot of you then they dont live in the lane. If Lee tried and block a shot every single time there was a guard in the lane which is every play then he would foul out in the first half.

Yes. Those are the perimere players. Those were the guys NJ were getting the ball to in that game. Who should he be focusing on when they are playing defense. The guy without the ball. Everyone is suppose to do their part. BTW, please don't make it sound as if he was locking down Lopez either. Lopez was either doubled or triple teamed anytime he touched the ball. When the Knicks didn't he toasted. Your boy doesn't jump on defense like he likes to do after going after rebounds or offense. And since you brought up the topic, most of Harris shots came against Lee since your boy rather rotate off Lopez to try and guard Harris on the perimeter. As Clyde continues to ask why is Lee rotating off his man so much and why the unnecessary double team. Where is that in your assessment? You want your boy to get major money but his defense is a huge problem.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
BRIGGS
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3/8/2009  11:11 PM
David Lee is the least of the NY Knick problems. This team is honestly all over the map. It's a toxic situation and I really think they are going to compound it by letting Nate and Lee walk.
RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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3/8/2009  11:13 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by King1:

It is david Lee fault that devin harris gotr 35 and Vince got 25. The guards lets those players into the lane. Every single game we have a perimeter player has a huge night and it is Lee fault. Nate Robinson and Chris duhon are two of the worst perimeter defender inthe league. Keep your man in frot of you then they dont live in the lane. If Lee tried and block a shot every single time there was a guard in the lane which is every play then he would foul out in the first half.

Yes. Those are the perimere players. Those were the guys NJ were getting the ball to in that game. Who should he be focusing on when they are playing defense. The guy without the ball. Everyone is suppose to do their part. BTW, please don't make it sound as if he was locking down Lopez either. Lopez was either doubled or triple teamed anytime he touched the ball. When the Knicks didn't he toasted. Your boy doesn't jump on defense like he likes to do after going after rebounds or offense. And since you brought up the topic, most of Harris shots came against Lee since your boy rather rotate off Lopez to try and guard Harris on the perimeter. As Clyde continues to ask why is Lee rotating off his man so much and why the unnecessary double team. Where is that in your assessment? You want your boy to get major money but his defense is a huge problem.



How does David Lee guard Brook Lopez when he is 3-4 inches taller with longer arms a bigger frame and outweighs him. Go talk to Mike Dantoni who does not want a true C on the team. Go talk with DW who is obviously kissing MD arse. Its not Lee's fault--he is not a true C.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 03-08-2009 11:15 PM]
RIP Crushalot😞
Pharzeone
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3/8/2009  11:22 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by King1:

It is david Lee fault that devin harris gotr 35 and Vince got 25. The guards lets those players into the lane. Every single game we have a perimeter player has a huge night and it is Lee fault. Nate Robinson and Chris duhon are two of the worst perimeter defender inthe league. Keep your man in frot of you then they dont live in the lane. If Lee tried and block a shot every single time there was a guard in the lane which is every play then he would foul out in the first half.

Yes. Those are the perimere players. Those were the guys NJ were getting the ball to in that game. Who should he be focusing on when they are playing defense. The guy without the ball. Everyone is suppose to do their part. BTW, please don't make it sound as if he was locking down Lopez either. Lopez was either doubled or triple teamed anytime he touched the ball. When the Knicks didn't he toasted. Your boy doesn't jump on defense like he likes to do after going after rebounds or offense. And since you brought up the topic, most of Harris shots came against Lee since your boy rather rotate off Lopez to try and guard Harris on the perimeter. As Clyde continues to ask why is Lee rotating off his man so much and why the unnecessary double team. Where is that in your assessment? You want your boy to get major money but his defense is a huge problem.



How does David Lee guard Brook Lopez when he is 3-4 inches taller with longer arms a bigger frame and outweighs him. Go talk to Mike Dantoni who does not want a true C on the team. Go talk with DW who is obviously kissing MD arse. Its not Lee's fault--he is not a true C.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 03-08-2009 11:15 PM]

Ok, so why does he have trouble with help defense. I don't care what position you play you can play help defense. Stick a hand up and leave your feet every once in awhile. At least give the impression that shots will be stopped if a player attempts to drive to the basket.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
TMS
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3/8/2009  11:25 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

David Lee is the least of the NY Knick problems.

the lack of interior defense is actually 1 of the team's most major problems & has been for a few years now... no one's complaining about his rebounding & offense right now, but his defense is completely non existent.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
s3231
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3/8/2009  11:29 PM
Lee wasn't that bad tonight, he showed more of an effort defensively and contested some shots (especially in the last minute on a key possession).

It was that game against the Bobcats that drove me nuts. There were a lot of times when he just left guys wide open on the perimeter and wouldn't stick out a hand when he was clearly the closest defender. At other times, he would leave his man to double and then he would just forget about the original guy he was guarding. At least tonight, he made more of an effort to get back on his man whenever he doubled.

Lee is definitely not the main problem with this team, no one is saying that at all. I still think he is our most dependable player and overall, he could be our best player right now. Like other players, he has weaknesses but unlike a lot of other guys, he has shown the work ethic and ability to improve. Fortunately, his weaknesses are things that can be improved and even mastered. Its a team effort and we need everyone to step up, not just Lee.

With that said, once Lee signs that big contract, he has to lead by example. If he resigns with us, he is going to have to try to lead by example and that means setting the tone defensively and holding other players accountable.

[Edited by - s3231 on 03-08-2009 11:30 PM]
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King1
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3/9/2009  11:14 AM
DO you think David just runs around and doubles the ball? Marquis Daniels got like 28 against us. You have no clue what the schemes and rotations are on this team. MDA isnt going to let him free lance on defense give me a break. How about gripe at NAte for never getting over a screen.
King1
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3/9/2009  11:23 AM
I dont have all day to do this but here is the last few games.
Bigs tha have scored 20 points
Boris Diaw 22
Al Horford 20
Dwight Howard 24
Guards that have had 20 points
Devin Harris 35
VInce Carter 25
Gerald Wallace 23
Dwyane Wade 46
Thaddeus Young 23
Andre Miller 25
Hedo Turkoglu 33
Marquis Daniels 28
Jarrett Jack 33
And this is all because Lee doesnt play defense or blcok shots? We have no perimeter defense and we get no effort and you want to blame Lee. Please explain how these guys light us up and it is the 5 man fault?
arkrud
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3/9/2009  11:26 AM
I don’t think this Lee talk is productive.
It's just fan opinion over fan opinion.
Let's see how Lee will be priced by league.
It's fair market in this economic situation and we will see the real Lee price tag.
Another question is - if it will be worth pay this price tag for the Knicks?
This will depend on many other things, including what MDA and Walsh are planning to do moving forward.
In any case we will know it this summer.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
arkrud
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3/9/2009  11:37 AM
Posted by King1:

I dont have all day to do this but here is the last few games.
Bigs tha have scored 20 points
Boris Diaw 22
Al Horford 20
Dwight Howard 24
Guards that have had 20 points
Devin Harris 35
VInce Carter 25
Gerald Wallace 23
Dwyane Wade 46
Thaddeus Young 23
Andre Miller 25
Hedo Turkoglu 33
Marquis Daniels 28
Jarrett Jack 33
And this is all because Lee doesnt play defense or blcok shots? We have no perimeter defense and we get no effort and you want to blame Lee. Please explain how these guys light us up and it is the 5 man fault?

And what about the Superman:


Allen - 32
Harris - 25
Nash - 20
Miller - 23
Rip - 31
Nate - 32
DRose - 22
Wade - 50
Paul - 36
Felton - 22

Nobody in today’s NBA can stop the guards. It's just how game evolved. The all-defense fans are stuck in the past. Get real, it’s all entertainment.


"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
King1
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3/9/2009  11:39 AM
So none of the players are going to get paid this year but in 2010 everyone will be throwing cash around? Just like in baseball the top free agents got a lot of money like Sabathia, Burnett and then the lower tier guys suffered. Lee is one of the top 3 free agents and the top rfa in this class he will get a decent contract
djsunyc
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3/9/2009  11:53 AM
boozer + okur are two of the worst defensive bigs in the league.

yet utah wins games.

you can win without a defensive big man. you may not win a title. but you can win games.
DrAlphaeus
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3/9/2009  12:04 PM
Co-sign on the hand in face thing someone brought up. If someone has you beat, they have you beat... but a hand in the face is going to take away a lucky bounce here and there and I don't see D. Lee putting his hand up when his man spots up 4-8 feet from him. But maybe he's already thinking about and preparing for the rebound at that point.

But also in general, as mentioned in that Derek Harper interview posted last week, the game has moved away from the low-scoring grind-a-thons, the personal pride in defense has definitely waned, and defense has become more of a specialist's game.
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DaJoka
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3/9/2009  12:08 PM
Harris went right over Lee on 3 or 4 different times and it looked like it was the same play over and over again.
Was he this bad defensively in college?
"Why So Serious" DaJoka
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So why is Lee so bad on defense?
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