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Ok...So what's the reason we don't play defense....
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K22
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3/3/2009  8:17 AM
Posted by Paladin55:

In fact, in my life, the only team that won it all without a major star on the team (as far as I can remember) was Lenny Wiken's Seattle team.

Pistons in '04.
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Paladin55
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3/3/2009  8:59 AM
Posted by K22:
Posted by Paladin55:

In fact, in my life, the only team that won it all without a major star on the team (as far as I can remember) was Lenny Wiken's Seattle team.

Pistons in '04.

Yeah, forgot about them. Wallace was the defensive player of the year, but they won because they had a lot of guys who were willing to sacrifice their stats for the good of the team.

So that is two teams in the 40 years I have been following the game.
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3/3/2009  9:18 AM
Posted by Paladin55:
Posted by K22:
Posted by Paladin55:

In fact, in my life, the only team that won it all without a major star on the team (as far as I can remember) was Lenny Wiken's Seattle team.

Pistons in '04.

Yeah, forgot about them. Wallace was the defensive player of the year, but they won because they had a lot of guys who were willing to sacrifice their stats for the good of the team.

So that is two teams in the 40 years I have been following the game.

How many teams have won a championship without a real 5 man---none.
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Uptown
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3/3/2009  9:47 AM
Posted by islesfan:

This team doesn't play defense because the head coach doesn't demand that they do and doesn't teach them how to. Get used to it because it's not going to change as long as he's the head coach.

Go back to his introductory press conference where he brought up his Suns teams records as some kind of proof that his teams played good enough defense to win. And when his teams lost in the playoffs, it wasn't because of the defense, it was because they didn't score enough.

D'Antoni is an egomaniac who thinks that he's reinvented the wheel. Guys like Doug Moe, Don Nelson and Paul Westhead couldn't win playing this style but D'Antoni is going to prove that they were all right.


This team hasn't played defense for years...way before MDA arived with essentially the same core (yes, I know Craw and Randoplh are gone, but MDA had them the first month or so and we still didn't play any D). Since thats the case, LB, the defensive guru, didn't demand them play any D either since it was awful then aswell.
holfresh
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3/3/2009  10:17 AM
Posted by K22:
Posted by Paladin55:

In fact, in my life, the only team that won it all without a major star on the team (as far as I can remember) was Lenny Wiken's Seattle team.

Pistons in '04.

Portland Trailblazers with Bill Walton and Maurice Lucas, Lionel Hollins, etc...
SupremeCommander
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3/3/2009  10:30 AM
This team doesn't need to become a defensive powerhouse. What it needs to become is a team that is disruptive for the the first 44 minutes and then can shut down the final 4. The team has no problem accumulating points, but can't score in the clutch, so they should definitely work on accumulating as many points as possible while being pesky and disruptive, then try to shut the other team down when everyone is failing to hit big shots anyway.
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JohnWallace44
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3/3/2009  10:34 AM
Are our per-possession defensive stats really that bad?

We play without a center.
We play without a defensive power forward 90% of the time.
Our best player on offense is 5'8", so that creates problems on the other end.
Star players come into the Garden looking to perform like a champion terrier coming into the Westminster Dog Show.

MikeD's best teams had Amare, Marion at the 4, and either Raja Bell or a healthy Q at the 2.

If and when we get to that point, we'll need to have players like that who can be effective on both ends.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
K22
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3/3/2009  11:02 AM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Are our per-possession defensive stats really that bad?

82games says we give up 1.11 points per possession.
Boston and Cleveland: 1.01.
Golden State: 1.12.
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SupremeCommander
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3/3/2009  11:10 AM
Posted by K22:
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Are our per-possession defensive stats really that bad?

82games says we give up 1.11 points per possession.
Boston and Cleveland: 1.01.
Golden State: 1.12.


That's pretty terrible. If you look at each possession as if the maximum outcome is 2 points (no idea how to factor 3 pointers in), then the Celtics or Cleveland let up two points 1.01/2 = 50.5 percent of the time. The Knicks, comparatively, let up two points 55.5 percent of the time. In other words, it's essentially a coinflip if your team will score against Boston/Cleveland... but against New York, you expect to score.
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
islesfan
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3/3/2009  11:35 AM
Posted by SupremeCommander:

This team doesn't need to become a defensive powerhouse. What it needs to become is a team that is disruptive for the the first 44 minutes and then can shut down the final 4. The team has no problem accumulating points, but can't score in the clutch, so they should definitely work on accumulating as many points as possible while being pesky and disruptive, then try to shut the other team down when everyone is failing to hit big shots anyway.

Are you talking about D'Antoni's Suns or this Knicks team? Oh wait doesn't matter because of the common denominator.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
JohnWallace44
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3/3/2009  11:38 AM
The Wiz are at 1.13

Funny that our best defensive lineups are with Timmay and Al out there. Oops.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
VDesai
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3/3/2009  11:40 AM
Our team eFG% against is also 3rd worst in the league.

Before you lay this all on D'Antoni- keep in mind the Suns were actually 8th best in eFG against last year, 12th best in 2007 and in fact, never close to this bad. The one constant here is the New York Knicks, who have been bottom 5-10 the last several years.
Masterplan
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3/3/2009  11:46 AM
under isiah, this team looked like a pickup squad on defense. this year, there is clearly a system they stick to - get a number of long, mobile players on the floor, and switch on screens. partly that's because of the lackuster defensive personnel we have, but it's similar to how the suns played - i loved watching it go back and forth in the playoffs with marion guarding tony parker and bowen on nash.

anyway, i feel that we need to get a true playoff-caliber squad here to really judge d'antoni as a coach, on either end. if anything, d'antoni's offense has disappointed me this season, seeing us get away from ball movement when nate and al gun away for long stretches.

as for the list of defenders in the original post... hughes sucks, chandler makes understandable rookie mistakes, harrington's D never impressed me, i really don't agree this team is stocked with defenders. we'll see what walsh and d'antoni come up with in terms of players in the next year and change.
JohnWallace44
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3/3/2009  11:49 AM
We have a lot of the same kinds of defenders too. We don't have a PG defender or an interior defender at this point. Only wing defenders.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
JohnWallace44
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3/3/2009  12:03 PM
Just looking at 82 games again, our 4 best 5 man lineups as far as +- do not include Dave.

Not sayin', but I'm just sayin'...
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
martin
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3/3/2009  12:11 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:

Just looking at 82 games again, our 4 best 5 man lineups as far as +- do not include Dave.

Not sayin', but I'm just sayin'...

I guess that's not saying much?
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nyk4ever
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3/3/2009  12:17 PM
Posted by VDesai:

Our team eFG% against is also 3rd worst in the league.

Before you lay this all on D'Antoni- keep in mind the Suns were actually 8th best in eFG against last year, 12th best in 2007 and in fact, never close to this bad. The one constant here is the New York Knicks, who have been bottom 5-10 the last several years.

We won't let facts get in the way Des..
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Uptown
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3/3/2009  1:40 PM
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by K22:
Posted by Paladin55:

In fact, in my life, the only team that won it all without a major star on the team (as far as I can remember) was Lenny Wiken's Seattle team.

Pistons in '04.

Portland Trailblazers with Bill Walton and Maurice Lucas, Lionel Hollins, etc...


Bill walton was a star player at that time.....He was the MVP of the league that year I believe. Might not have been that year, but he was definitely MVP of the league at some point
holfresh
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3/3/2009  4:32 PM
Posted by Uptown:
Posted by holfresh:
Posted by K22:
Posted by Paladin55:

In fact, in my life, the only team that won it all without a major star on the team (as far as I can remember) was Lenny Wiken's Seattle team.

Pistons in '04.

Portland Trailblazers with Bill Walton and Maurice Lucas, Lionel Hollins, etc...


Bill walton was a star player at that time.....He was the MVP of the league that year I believe. Might not have been that year, but he was definitely MVP of the league at some point

I see Bill Walton as a Steve Nash...He has one or two good years that defined his career as a great...He should not have been included in the top 50 players...The guy score about 6,300 pts in his career..."Nique should have beat him out in the top 50 players of all time, but that's another argument...He was good but not dominant...The year Portland won was because of the team and not because of Walton, although he was their best player...
LivingLegend
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3/3/2009  5:57 PM
Posted by holfresh:

We have decent to good defenders on this team...What's the excuse for MDA won't committing to defense...

Hughes...Very good defender prior to being on the Knicks...
Duhon...Decent above average defender at his position before the Knicks...
Harrington..Decent above average defender before the Knicks...
Chandler...Has shown he can play defense and is willing to do so...
Jeffries...It's about the only thing this kid can do on a basketball court..
Lee...poor defender..it ain't for everybody..what do you want...
Nate...Should have 2-3 steals per game...we all know that..
Q-BBitch...can defend when asked to do so..
Wilcox...He is 6' 10", athletic and physical...Can someone ask this man to play some D?
The Rooster...Decent hands and instincts..slow footed but needs work...

Don't look now but we seem to have a team that can play some D...So why is the coach holding them back???





Your best players have to play D and have to want to play D...that includes at practice sometimes.

Our best players Lee, Nate and Al -- don't know what the hell defense is and they sure as hell don't play it every night.

Can you imagine how bad our D is at practice === that's why Roberson looked like Oscar Robertson for a week.
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Ok...So what's the reason we don't play defense....
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