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Evaluating Donnie Walsh
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JamaicanJetFan
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3/2/2009  6:07 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by JamaicanJetFan:

Giving a draft grade to the Gallinari pick is comical at this point. I don't take ANY type of draft grade seriously until the player has had 2 full seasons to show what he has.

draft grades are normally given right after the draft by many pundits and sports writers. What's comical about giving a draft grade almost a year later?

Grade away...they just dont mean anything.

If we were grading Chandler at this point last year...he would have gotten a big fat F.
And that would have meant didly squat.
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Pharzeone
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3/2/2009  6:11 PM
Posted by JamaicanJetFan:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by JamaicanJetFan:

Giving a draft grade to the Gallinari pick is comical at this point. I don't take ANY type of draft grade seriously until the player has had 2 full seasons to show what he has.

draft grades are normally given right after the draft by many pundits and sports writers. What's comical about giving a draft grade almost a year later?

Grade away...they just dont mean anything.

If we were grading Chandler at this point last year...he would have gotten a big fat F.
And that would have meant didly squat.

Actually, I think the draft grade for the KNicks for Chandler was B. I think it is more about prospects and potential based on draft grades than the player, where the player was selected and the need for the player and their possible impact on your team. I think Walsh got between a B and C for Gallinari right after the draft. This is done for all drafts not just the NBA.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
bitty41
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3/2/2009  6:59 PM
Posted by JamaicanJetFan:

Giving a draft grade to the Gallinari pick is comical at this point. I don't take ANY type of draft grade seriously until the player has had 2 full seasons to show what he has.

If a player is looking to develop his skills he should not be in the NBA. The NBA isn't a developmental league so this idea that Gallo or any rookie for that matter should be given a pass because they're young or that they are suppose to be still developing is kind of ridiculous. Develop in college, develop in the leagues oversees, but if you want to be in the NBA making millions of dollars dealing with the scrutiny of the New York media you better be at the level necessary to compete on a nightly basis in the NBA.
martin
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3/2/2009  7:15 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by JamaicanJetFan:

Giving a draft grade to the Gallinari pick is comical at this point. I don't take ANY type of draft grade seriously until the player has had 2 full seasons to show what he has.

If a player is looking to develop his skills he should not be in the NBA. The NBA isn't a developmental league so this idea that Gallo or any rookie for that matter should be given a pass because they're young or that they are suppose to be still developing is kind of ridiculous. Develop in college, develop in the leagues oversees, but if you want to be in the NBA making millions of dollars dealing with the scrutiny of the New York media you better be at the level necessary to compete on a nightly basis in the NBA.

that's crap. Just on the Knicks team I'll tell you that Lee, Nate, and Chandler have developed. No need for any of those guys to have gone overseas.
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Pharzeone
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3/2/2009  7:31 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by JamaicanJetFan:

Giving a draft grade to the Gallinari pick is comical at this point. I don't take ANY type of draft grade seriously until the player has had 2 full seasons to show what he has.

If a player is looking to develop his skills he should not be in the NBA. The NBA isn't a developmental league so this idea that Gallo or any rookie for that matter should be given a pass because they're young or that they are suppose to be still developing is kind of ridiculous. Develop in college, develop in the leagues oversees, but if you want to be in the NBA making millions of dollars dealing with the scrutiny of the New York media you better be at the level necessary to compete on a nightly basis in the NBA.

that's crap. Just on the Knicks team I'll tell you that Lee, Nate, and Chandler have developed. No need for any of those guys to have gone overseas.

Actually David Stern disagrees with you. He's on record as saying something similar to Bitty. He doesn't want his league to be a developmental league of sorts. That's why he fought for the one year rule and the age restriction on international players.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
martin
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3/2/2009  7:41 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by martin:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by JamaicanJetFan:

Giving a draft grade to the Gallinari pick is comical at this point. I don't take ANY type of draft grade seriously until the player has had 2 full seasons to show what he has.

If a player is looking to develop his skills he should not be in the NBA. The NBA isn't a developmental league so this idea that Gallo or any rookie for that matter should be given a pass because they're young or that they are suppose to be still developing is kind of ridiculous. Develop in college, develop in the leagues oversees, but if you want to be in the NBA making millions of dollars dealing with the scrutiny of the New York media you better be at the level necessary to compete on a nightly basis in the NBA.

that's crap. Just on the Knicks team I'll tell you that Lee, Nate, and Chandler have developed. No need for any of those guys to have gone overseas.

Actually David Stern disagrees with you. He's on record as saying something similar to Bitty. He doesn't want his league to be a developmental league of sorts. That's why he fought for the one year rule and the age restriction on international players.

you are talking about something entirely different.
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bitty41
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3/2/2009  7:42 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by JamaicanJetFan:

Giving a draft grade to the Gallinari pick is comical at this point. I don't take ANY type of draft grade seriously until the player has had 2 full seasons to show what he has.

If a player is looking to develop his skills he should not be in the NBA. The NBA isn't a developmental league so this idea that Gallo or any rookie for that matter should be given a pass because they're young or that they are suppose to be still developing is kind of ridiculous. Develop in college, develop in the leagues oversees, but if you want to be in the NBA making millions of dollars dealing with the scrutiny of the New York media you better be at the level necessary to compete on a nightly basis in the NBA.

that's crap. Just on the Knicks team I'll tell you that Lee, Nate, and Chandler have developed. No need for any of those guys to have gone overseas.

Back up for a moment I was not suggesting that Chandler or Lee should have gone oversees. My point is that a player's game when entering the draft should be a the level to compete on a nightly basis in the NBA.

martin
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3/2/2009  7:44 PM
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by martin:
Posted by bitty41:
Posted by JamaicanJetFan:

Giving a draft grade to the Gallinari pick is comical at this point. I don't take ANY type of draft grade seriously until the player has had 2 full seasons to show what he has.

If a player is looking to develop his skills he should not be in the NBA. The NBA isn't a developmental league so this idea that Gallo or any rookie for that matter should be given a pass because they're young or that they are suppose to be still developing is kind of ridiculous. Develop in college, develop in the leagues oversees, but if you want to be in the NBA making millions of dollars dealing with the scrutiny of the New York media you better be at the level necessary to compete on a nightly basis in the NBA.

that's crap. Just on the Knicks team I'll tell you that Lee, Nate, and Chandler have developed. No need for any of those guys to have gone overseas.

Back up for a moment I was not suggesting that Chandler or Lee should have gone oversees. My point is that a player's game when entering the draft should be a the level to compete on a nightly basis in the NBA.

fair enough, and but for a back injury, I think Gallo could do that. What JamaicanJetFan was suggesting is that players like Gallo haven't filled out yet and it's too early to determine what we have right now.
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bitty41
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3/2/2009  7:51 PM
Oh so he's going through puberty is the excuse. So I guess we should just wait until he can start growing a beard to know that he's ready to play
islesfan
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3/2/2009  11:14 PM
Head Coach: C

Draft: F-

Trades: B+

Free Agents: C-

Overall: INC until summer of 2010. Although if he screws up this draft as much as he did last years or re-signs Lee and Nate to long term contracts, I'll just go ahead and give him a big ****ing F right there and then.

The 2008 and 2009 drafts were as important as signing a max free agent IMHO. He already screwed up the first one and he's on his way to messing up the second one by not focusing on maximizing their first round pick.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
JohnWallace44
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3/3/2009  10:51 AM
I agree with the Incomplete grades. A lot of his trades were made in the context of 2010.

If we get jilted by LeBron and Wade, or don't have the room to sign them afterall, then his Zach trade will be looked at in a completely different way.

Crawford for Al is fine. Rose for Wilcox you had to do. Hughes... we'll see.

Balkman was a strange deal. I guess you had to do it.

Not using the expirings or Nate and Lee in trades will be revisited as we get closer to 2010.

Mike D is a better coach than I think anyone realizes. That's been his best move so far. Also, I think that teams either wouldn't deal with Isiah, or wanted to fleece him. Walsh seems to have a better relationship league wide with other GM's based on the deals we've made.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
MS
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3/3/2009  11:08 AM
The balkman deal was a little strange. I still think he brought something to the table and when paired with another player I think there was a trade there that could have been made to get rid of jefferies.

Wade is never leaving Miami, why would you. The quality of life is better, the weather is great, and your money doesn't evaporate like it does in new york.

Hopefully we continue to lose games and move up in the draft, that's the only way this plan really works. I just don't think we needed to trade for hughes and take up roster space with a player that needs minutes. I think Duhon, Chandler, Harrington, Gallo, Lee should be the starting lineup with nate off the bench. Really where does winning games get us other than farther away from where we need to be. Isiah decided to win his last few games and it cost us three spots in the draft.

Harrington and Duhon need to be traded for some value next offseason, in a packaged deal to bring back young talent.
K22
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3/3/2009  11:10 AM
Posted by MS:

Isiah decided to win his last few games and it cost us three spots in the draft.

The spot that was ultimately taken by the Bulls, IIRC.

-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
martin
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3/3/2009  11:15 AM
Posted by MS:

Wade is never leaving Miami, why would you. The quality of life is better, the weather is great, and your money doesn't evaporate like it does in new york.

Maybe we should ask Shaq why he left.
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rvwink
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3/3/2009  11:34 AM
The concept of grading is based on an assumption that the person doing the grading is more knowledgable than the person they are grading. Unfortunately sometimes that doesn't appear to me to be a valid assumption on this particular thread. Several grading concepts I particularly didn't like were the thought that because D'Antoni didn't have a winning record he couldn't be graded A. The idea imo is that if the coach over achieves based on the previous record of the team then he is doing an excellent job. I also disagreed with the grader who suggested that if a player wasn't ready to contribute in his first year in the league then they shouldn't be drafted. That is flat out wrong. There are alot of developmental draft choices where players with alot of upside are drafted knowing that they won't be wonderful in their initial season or two. This is particularly the case when the prospect is alot younger than the normal prospect.
djsunyc
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3/3/2009  11:38 AM
Posted by rvwink:

The concept of grading is based on an assumption that the person doing the grading is more knowledgable than the person they are grading. Unfortunately sometimes that doesn't appear to me to be a valid assumption on this particular thread. Several grading concepts I particularly didn't like were the thought that because D'Antoni didn't have a winning record he couldn't be graded A. The idea imo is that if the coach over achieves based on the previous record of the team then he is doing an excellent job.

d'antoni didn't have the same roster as last season. so comparing records from this season's to last does not apply.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 03-03-2009 11:41 AM]
MS
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3/3/2009  11:41 AM
Gordon, Lopez and Randolph are all very young players with clear skills. Gallo right now has one skill he has shown which is shooting, and occasional good instincts on defense. You can make a grade on what you have seen so far. Walsh hasn't been very impressive in the draft to date so it's reasonable to question the pick and where it fits long term.

Giving Mike and A is fair because the team competes every night and they lose games because of who they are, not what they can become. He always has had to deal with trades all season long and playing shorthanded. Players like him and want to play for him. Those are the most important traits a coach can have. I don't know if this team could have been much better, had we kept the unit together from last year we would have won our 36 games, but the need was to develop the young guys, which is what we have been doing, although not as much as we should be doing.
djsunyc
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3/3/2009  11:44 AM
d'antoni's developing the young guys - mainly nate and lee - b/c he has no other options. if craw + zach were still on this team, they wouldn't be averaging this many minutes. look at how he uses gallo + roberson in terms of development. not nate + lee.
martin
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3/3/2009  12:10 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

d'antoni's developing the young guys - mainly nate and lee - b/c he has no other options. if craw + zach were still on this team, they wouldn't be averaging this many minutes. look at how he uses gallo + roberson in terms of development. not nate + lee.

do you think that MDA was pumping up Zach + Craws minutes and stats for trade value?
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djsunyc
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3/3/2009  12:27 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by djsunyc:

d'antoni's developing the young guys - mainly nate and lee - b/c he has no other options. if craw + zach were still on this team, they wouldn't be averaging this many minutes. look at how he uses gallo + roberson in terms of development. not nate + lee.

do you think that MDA was pumping up Zach + Craws minutes and stats for trade value?

no, i think everyone stats get pumped up in this system.
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Evaluating Donnie Walsh
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