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Hear Me Now and Believe Me Later (after dinner), The NYKnicks Don't Need Lebron To Become A Consistent Winner
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misterearl
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2/27/2009  10:46 AM
UptownBaby, we gets down Baby - based on your listing, I would challenge your definition of Super star. But forget handing out the labels and generalized accolades.

The definition of Super Star is neither here nor there, and does not alter the indisputable factoid that:

All of those teams had a presence at the five who was more imposing than Jared Jeffries. Most times that presence in the middle was dominant. Just re-check you own list.

The Knicks desperately need a center.



[Edited by - misterearl on 02-27-2009 10:48 AM]
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K22
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2/27/2009  10:55 AM
Posted by misterearl:

The Knicks desperately need a center.

Preferably one that's motivated and mobile.

By the way, the Bulls won in '91 not Detroit.

[Edited by - K22 on 2009-02-27 10:55 AM]
-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
Uptown
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2/27/2009  10:56 AM
Posted by misterearl:

UptownBaby, we gets down Baby - based on your listing, I would challenge your definition of Super star. But forget handing out the labels and generalized accolades.

The definition of Super Star is neither here nor there, and does not alter the indisputable factoid that:

All of those teams had a presence at the five who was more imposing than Jared Jeffries. Most times that presence in the middle was dominant. Just re-check you own list.

The Knicks desperately need a center.



[Edited by - misterearl on 02-27-2009 10:48 AM]


Superstar? Okay, how about the fact that all but two of the champions form the last 20 years have had MVP trophy holders in their careers. And Isiah was definitely an MVP callibre player during his prime years.

You say we need a center and I dont disagree but as I said add Tyrson Chandler or Camby to this current group and it doesn't elevate us amongst the elite. We are still fighting for an 8th seed.
Uptown
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2/27/2009  10:59 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

i agree with earl. banking on somebody to ride in on their white horse to save the day is not a great plan for fans to get behind.

That is a very extreme look at the idea of getting under the cap to have flexibility to sign freeagents, absorb contracts in trades, etc......Walsh never said he's waiting for a hero to save the day.
misterearl
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2/27/2009  11:02 AM
"Playoffs?"

"Don't Talk to me about Playoffs?"

The reason I overstate the center position is because manning-up at the post position is the basis for the playing personality, or strategic approach, that teams take in the playoffs.

The 2006 Suns may have be cute during the regular season but they still needed dependable scoring in a game 6 or 7 when guys are grabbing their shorts trying to catch their collective breath.

You GOTTA be able to bust it down low and score points from close range. And you GOTS to defend down low or you will be history faster than you can say Bobby Jindal.

I dug the upset the Nuggets pulled with Dikembe hugging the ball on the floor at the end.


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K22
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2/27/2009  11:09 AM
Posted by misterearl:

I dug the upset the Nuggets pulled with Dikembe hugging the ball on the floor at the end.



-- the preceding post was brought to you by the letter K and the number 22.
misterearl
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2/27/2009  12:41 PM
K22 - you are indeed Jedi. Thank You

I have faith that Donnie Walsh will uncover a yoot who is a-gile, mo-bile and hoss-tile. (thank you FAMU Coach Jake Gaither)


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SupremeCommander
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2/27/2009  12:47 PM
Posted by Uptown:

As TMS has already stated and as I have argued numerous times on this forum, you need a superstar to win the Chip. Lets look at the champions from the last 20 years:

1989 Lakers Magic, Kareem, Worthy
1990 Pistons Isiah
1991 Pistons Isiah
1992 Bulls Jordan, Pippen
1993 Bulls Jordan, Pippen
1994 Rockets Hakeem
1995 Rockets Hakeem, Drexler
1996 Bulls Jordan, Pippen
1997 Bulls Jordan, Pippen
1998 Bulls Jordan, Pippen
1999 Spurs Duncan, Robinson
2000 Lakers Shaq, Kobe
2001 Lakers Shaq, Kobe
2002 Lakers Shaq, Kobe
2003 Spurs Duncan
2004 Pistons
2005 Spurs Duncan
2006 Heat Shaq, Wade
2007 Spurs Duncan
2008 Cetics Garnett, Pierce, Allen

So other than the 04 Pistons, every single team that won a chip over the last 20 years has had at least one and in most cases two hall of fame players. And with the exception of Isiah, the best player on each of these championships has won at least one MVP trophy at some point in thier careers. If we have any aspirations of winning a chip you need a superstar/hall or famer/MVP callibre player like a Lebron, Wade, etc.....if you guys are happy with first round exits, then by all means go ahead and plug in a Tyson Chandler with this current team and ignore stars that will be available in 2010-2012. And we can all meet up right here on this forum and bitch and complain about how the current coach cant get us over the hump.

[Edited by - uptown on 02-27-2009 10:38 AM]

This is true--but you must consider that only one of those Championship teams brought in a superstar via free agency.
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Silverfuel
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2/27/2009  1:34 PM
I cannot ****ing believe this ****!!!!!!!!! WE NEED A FRANCHISE PLAYER!!
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misterearl
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2/27/2009  1:37 PM
SupremeCom - the disconnect between coveting other teams championship rosters and HOW they managed to assemble those rosters is staggering.

There is another overlooked quality that is shared by championship teams. All these teams have quality depth. The players who stepped up in The Playoffs and made the big shot or clutch/pivotal play were not always the stars or super stars. They were the Avery Johnson's, Vinny Johnson's or in the case of the Knicks (who made The Finals) - Larry Johnson's.

You need a high quality 6th, 7th and 8th man. Preferably one of them is a backup center as well.




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nixluva
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2/27/2009  2:22 PM
We need a stud for sure, but since that is a rare commodity it would seem to me that we should build with the Pistons in mind and if we can manage to get a superstar to come, GREAT! If not we still have a title contending team based on a purely well built team of solid players. It seems to me that this is what the 2 options are right now.
Uptown
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2/27/2009  2:30 PM
Posted by misterearl:

SupremeCom - the disconnect between coveting other teams championship rosters and HOW they managed to assemble those rosters is staggering.

There is another overlooked quality that is shared by championship teams. All these teams have quality depth. The players who stepped up in The Playoffs and made the big shot or clutch/pivotal play were not always the stars or super stars. They were the Avery Johnson's, Vinny Johnson's or in the case of the Knicks (who made The Finals) - Larry Johnson's.

You need a high quality 6th, 7th and 8th man. Preferably one of them is a backup center as well.


Its not about coveting other teams rosters, its about assembling a championship roster, something that other teams (such as the Spurs, Bulls, Lakers, and recently the Celtics) have been able to do while we haven't since 73.

Avery and Vinnie Johnson are valuble pieces indeed, but they would be rendered useless if not for Tim Duncan and Isiah Thomas.
misterearl
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2/27/2009  2:55 PM
Uptown - each path used by the Spurs, Bulls Celtics or Lakers to acquire the players to win a championship was unique.

The Spurs were the recipient of a lottery pick via post season-ending injury to its best player. Draft.

The Bulls got handed a gift from Portland and nailed an unknown draft pick named Scottie Pippen. Draft

The Lakers snagged Kobe and thank Memphis (who thanked the Hawks) for Gasol to this day. Draft plus deal

The Celtics Ainge got the hook-up from McHale. Trade using draft picks

Donnie Walsh is poised at a crossroads in the franchise history. His methodology to assemble a championship roster can be guided by media demand for headlines or the patience to wait for Danilo's prime years in 2012-2016. In 2012 Gallinari will be 24 years old and Wilson Chandler will be 26.




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TMS
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2/27/2009  2:57 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Third, Dirk, Wade and Bosh are NOT superstarts. They are excellent players who play in the rare air of "consistent performer who can be depended on to contribute in a significant way every night".

IMPORTANT NOTE: NONE of them have rings. Dirk does not have a ring with a franchise with an enlightened owner BUILT to win a ring.

There are only 2 superstars. Kobe and Lebron. Neither one of them is coming to New York.

Wade has a ring... Lebron doesn't... what does rings have to do w/being a superstar or not? Karl Malone wasn't a superstar? Patrick Ewing? the point isn't that any superstar will get us a ring, but that you need a superstar to win one... we don't have one... would probably make sense for us to try & get one then... seems logical to me.
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TMS
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2/27/2009  3:01 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

i agree with earl. banking on somebody to ride in on their white horse to save the day is not a great plan for fans to get behind.

while banking on mediocre rosters is? that's pretty ridiculous.
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TMS
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2/27/2009  3:03 PM
Posted by Uptown:
Posted by misterearl:

UptownBaby, we gets down Baby - based on your listing, I would challenge your definition of Super star. But forget handing out the labels and generalized accolades.

The definition of Super Star is neither here nor there, and does not alter the indisputable factoid that:

All of those teams had a presence at the five who was more imposing than Jared Jeffries. Most times that presence in the middle was dominant. Just re-check you own list.

The Knicks desperately need a center.



[Edited by - misterearl on 02-27-2009 10:48 AM]


Superstar? Okay, how about the fact that all but two of the champions form the last 20 years have had MVP trophy holders in their careers. And Isiah was definitely an MVP callibre player during his prime years.

You say we need a center and I dont disagree but as I said add Tyrson Chandler or Camby to this current group and it doesn't elevate us amongst the elite. We are still fighting for an 8th seed.

the center we need is Dwight Howard, not Tyson Chandler.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bippity10
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2/27/2009  3:05 PM
I'm with Earl on this one. I don't care how you get a star, just get one. Draft, free-agency, trade why does the method matter. We are in position to get Lebron. It's the smart thing to do. As long as that isn't his only option and he doesn't jettison a young pup for nothing just to remain in this position I have no problem with it. Worst case scenario you have Lee, Nate, Wilson and Gallinari. 3 of the 4 have shown some pretty good progress and are turning into a winning supporting cast. One is just getting started. We are in a good position
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TMS
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2/27/2009  3:11 PM
no one ever said we shouldn't explore every option to get a superstar... the argument i'm making is that u don't put together a roster like ours & add players like Tyson Chandler & Marcus Camby & expect to win championships... u gotta add a stud... there are studs available in the free agent market this year & Donnie plans on going after them... why do people continue to question this as if it's not gonna happen when it's already happening? if we miss out on Lebron, Donnie's still got other options but he's not gonna scrap the 2010 plan because he's afraid of not getting Lebron James.
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Bippity10
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2/27/2009  3:12 PM
Posted by TMS:

no one ever said we shouldn't explore every option to get a superstar... the argument i'm making is that u don't put together a roster like ours & add players like Tyson Chandler & Marcus Camby & expect to win championships... u gotta add a stud... there are studs available in the free agent market this year & Donnie plans on going after them... why do people continue to question this as if it's not gonna happen when it's already happening? if we miss out on Lebron, Donnie's still got other options but he's not gonna scrap the 2010 plan because he's afraid of not getting Lebron James.

oh, got it.
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islesfan
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2/27/2009  3:14 PM
Winning 42-45 games a year makes you a consistent winner.

I want to contend for championships.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Hear Me Now and Believe Me Later (after dinner), The NYKnicks Don't Need Lebron To Become A Consistent Winner

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