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david falk's blunt warning about the future of the nba
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MS
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2/23/2009  1:35 PM
Can we stop getting political and making stupid assumptions.

Team's are in tough spots, because if you are in a small market you have to overcompensate sometimes trying to get talent to stay in your city and it happens to usually be pay over paying.

Players that fill buildings should get their cash (Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Durant, Duncan, etc), but JJ's of the world should be making hundreds of thousands not multi millions (and every knick that isiah has signed or traded for).

It's just not right that someone can sign a deal and get injured and you have to pay their full salary even though they are useless. Obviously player's are going to revolt, players are so dumb they can't survive on millions of dollars. There is no reason Eddy Curry should ever have to ask for his money upfront.
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sebstar
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2/23/2009  1:45 PM
Posted by MS:

Can we stop getting political and making stupid assumptions.

Team's are in tough spots, because if you are in a small market you have to overcompensate sometimes trying to get talent to stay in your city and it happens to usually be pay over paying.

Players that fill buildings should get their cash (Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Durant, Duncan, etc), but JJ's of the world should be making hundreds of thousands not multi millions (and every knick that isiah has signed or traded for).

It's just not right that someone can sign a deal and get injured and you have to pay their full salary even though they are useless. Obviously player's are going to revolt, players are so dumb they can't survive on millions of dollars. There is no reason Eddy Curry should ever have to ask for his money upfront.

Oh, so I get it. When Multi-millionaire, and in most cases billionaire, sports owners are in "tough spots", the world just needs to stop, huh? When its millions of Americans in trouble and struggling to get by, you guys just shrug your shoulders and say "oh well, your fault"...I'm just going by your principles and the stuff that comes out of your mouths.

If owners are in such "tough spots" then naturally the market will re-correct itself, right? Owners want a cap,( or in the NBA's case want it lowered) to artificially put a ceiling on salaries to essentially save them from themselves and maximize the profits. Look at revenue sharing in baseball. Most of the owners pocket their earnings and shut the players out. They're the greedy ones here.

And if you try to create a small market vs. big market argument. I say tough. If some owner in Kansas City or whatever says that he "cant compete", well oh well, this is America and correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no Constitutional Statue that says that it is an inherent American right to own a sports franchise.

Sell it off and give it to someone who "can compete"...they wont, tho, 'cause they are making to much money.

[Edited by - sebstar on 02-23-2009 1:47 PM]
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
Nalod
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2/23/2009  2:19 PM
THe public domain funded many of the arenas and Stadiums.

NBA needs to tweak to a system like the NFL where you can franchise tag a player and have to pay him a boatload. I like the upfront payments on long contracts and after few years you can cut them, ask them for a paycut, or the player can go to a team that is willing to pay them higher.

Thats very american BTW.

You can promote your starphuching jersey sales and still let the MarCurry's go and not hold franchise hostage.

Letting owners fail hurt the taxpayers who funded the arena and the many who work in them.
sebstar
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2/23/2009  2:42 PM
Posted by Nalod:

THe public domain funded many of the arenas and Stadiums.

NBA needs to tweak to a system like the NFL where you can franchise tag a player and have to pay him a boatload. I like the upfront payments on long contracts and after few years you can cut them, ask them for a paycut, or the player can go to a team that is willing to pay them higher.

Thats very american BTW.

You can promote your starphuching jersey sales and still let the MarCurry's go and not hold franchise hostage.

Letting owners fail hurt the taxpayers who funded the arena and the many who work in them.

C'mon Nalod one has nothing to do with the other. How do public funds correlate with what owners are willing to pay players? Players and agents are not coming to the negotiation table with a shotgun. Nobody is forced here.

This is not about Joe the popcorn vendor, this is about Missy the Mistress. Owners want to gobble more of the profits so they can do with it what they wish --- i.e money, clothes, more hoes.

Initiatives for publically financed stadiums are born out of threats of relocation, so in many cases citizens pay for the right to have a professional franchise to cheer for.

Bottom line is this. Republicans and conservatives never say "so and so makes too much money, we need to limit how much they make" when it comes to real world issue, but only in very select circumstances (athlete's salaries). Why is this?

All I'm trying to do is get conservatives to see life in a different prism. Why be so heartless when the stakes are so high: Supporting fat cat CEO's who have used all kind of underhanded methods to create a huge divide in wealth and shut the working man out (outsourcing, union busting). But get all emotional for something so trivial (billionaires vs. millionaires). They hypocrisy is stunning, cause they will essentially support "redistribution of the wealth" for people who are filthy rich.

Fluck that.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
eViL
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2/23/2009  3:28 PM
There's a solution to all of this. Get money. Roll blunts. Fuck bitches. Rinse. Lather. Repeat.
check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
Nalod
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2/23/2009  4:39 PM

More socialism for old, rich white people. Please save us from our incompetence and greed!!!!

I think we have lost you a long time ago.

But many of the owners of teams OWN their own companies that wealth was created. Media Moguls like Cuban and Bob Johnson sold at crazy prices and have teams as play things. They often don't make much money on the teams but eventually cash in when the teams are sold. If they don't gain in value they are pissing a lot of money away.

Crazy rich entreprenaurs are not "Fat Cat CEO's". Or do they all look alike to you?

You should be concened with tax revenue and who paid for those arenas. THey are build off the taxpayer and those owners have a responsability to keep the revenue flowing.

So if your so anti owner, you think its ok for players like curry, marbury, etc to feast on the money and not live up? Or, maybe the players need to share with downside as they participate in the upside?

Owners ("rich old white people") put up the capital and take on the risk.

Im not saying the players should not get paid millions, they should get what they can. A player who is playing above his contract should have incentive and an avenue to renegotiate. Likewise, an underperforming asset should also have his contract adjusted downward.

I think the Lebrons and Kobe might be underpaid and should be "franchise" players like the NFL does.

Cosmic
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2/23/2009  4:56 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by djsunyc:

2010 plan could be in serious jeopardy for many teams.

if there's a $50 mil hard cap, how do you tie yourself up to a free agent making $17-20 mil of that? teams may have to make a big splash this offseason and hope for a sign and trade with pieces already in place. b/c if you strip down and just clear space to sign a big name, it's going to be tough to surround him with quality players unless there's a drastic shift in contracts and guy's prices go way way down.

from the knicks POV, i think they have to re-sign lee and utilize expirings to make a sign and trade this summer...

If there's a hard cap of 50M - a max contract won't be worth 20M dollars. It'll be worth 30% of the hard cap that is set (15M). Maybe less.

Or, as pointed out, maybe a franchise player tag enters the NBA, and that player doesnt count against the hard cap? (whatever they were alluding to there).

Regardless, watch for the usual suspects here and on other Knick forums, to salivate over this article, in an attempt to trash Walsh, for well, what...is anyone's guess.

2010 happens before the CBA expires. so max players will get current max dollars. this hard cap can't take into effect until 2011 at the earliest.

Ah - DUH - I see what you're saying here. *bites nails*

Just hope for that line about a max player (franchise tag player) not counting against the hard cap. Maybe each team get's 1 exception? It would make the hard cap a more realistic proposition.
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sebstar
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2/23/2009  5:20 PM
Posted by Nalod:




So if your so anti owner, you think its ok for players like curry, marbury, etc to feast on the money and not live up? Or, maybe the players need to share with downside as they participate in the upside?

Not at all. I just find it curious that so-called champions of free market principles --- who will cheer lead outrageous golden parachutes for CEO's of failed corporations and a culture that has seen the gap between workers and CEO's grow by almost 400% now all of a sudden want to "cap" or limit how much an individual can make.

Where is the accountability? Marbury and Curry were given those contracts because thats what the market allowed and called for. They were both bad investments, and believe me there were red flags on both of those two when they entered into their agreements.

Players like Marbury and Curry are not typical case studies. Most players "earn" their deals. So now I'm supposed to feel bad for owners because they misjudge players that they invest in? Whose fault is it? So, I'm going to feel so bad for their own mistakes, that I want to enact rules that mitigate their damages if THEY mess up. See how crazy that sounds?

And believe me, these NBA contracts are not charity. If Marbury is making 80 million, how much do you think owners are making? Get real.

They want to save themselves from their own incompetence and they want to create a situation where they hold all the cards. No, I dont like to see players sit on 20 million and do nothing. But I would rather see that, then see owners use the players that drive their billion dollar empire used like cattle like the NFL.

If Marbury asks for a 100 million dollar contract, it is the owners RIGHT to say no. Why is that so hard to understand?

[Edited by - sebstar on 02-23-2009 5:24 PM]
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
loweyecue
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2/23/2009  6:40 PM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by djsunyc:

2010 plan could be in serious jeopardy for many teams.

if there's a $50 mil hard cap, how do you tie yourself up to a free agent making $17-20 mil of that? teams may have to make a big splash this offseason and hope for a sign and trade with pieces already in place. b/c if you strip down and just clear space to sign a big name, it's going to be tough to surround him with quality players unless there's a drastic shift in contracts and guy's prices go way way down.

from the knicks POV, i think they have to re-sign lee and utilize expirings to make a sign and trade this summer...

If there's a hard cap of 50M - a max contract won't be worth 20M dollars. It'll be worth 30% of the hard cap that is set (15M). Maybe less.

Or, as pointed out, maybe a franchise player tag enters the NBA, and that player doesnt count against the hard cap? (whatever they were alluding to there).

Regardless, watch for the usual suspects here and on other Knick forums, to salivate over this article, in an attempt to trash Walsh, for well, what...is anyone's guess.

The problem though is that your existing roster which still makes pre-collapse salaries will now eat up a larger portion of your cap.
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
Vmart
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2/23/2009  6:45 PM
Every time I read or hear David Falk I want to puke. That bastard screwed the Knicks big time.
loweyecue
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2/23/2009  6:48 PM
Posted by sebstar:

More socialism for old, rich white people. Please save us from our incompetence and greed!!!!

What ever happened to free market principles and ideals from the Good Ol' USA? The same people that run up on the Hannity show bashing Barack Obama and the inner city screaming "WELFARE QUEENS" and "Socialist tax rates" are the same cats that whine about the Yankees payroll and how much money NBA players are making. Hypocrites. --- THEY DONT WORK

If a GM is stupid enough to give Larry Hughes 13 mil, then thats his American right. Why do we need rules and legislation to save him from himself?
Not surprised Falk is poppin' this kind of junk now. He's already MADE his money.
STEPHON MARBURY
TKF on Melo ::....he is a punk, a jerk, a self absorbed out of shape, self aggrandizing, unprofessional, volume chucking coach killing playoff loser!!
BasketballJones
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2/23/2009  6:57 PM
Posted by eViL:

There's a solution to all of this. Get money. Roll blunts. Fuck bitches. Rinse. Lather. Repeat.

Right. Roll blunts, don't talk them.
https:// It's not so hard.
sebstar
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2/23/2009  9:39 PM
Posted by loweyecue:
Posted by sebstar:

More socialism for old, rich white people. Please save us from our incompetence and greed!!!!

What ever happened to free market principles and ideals from the Good Ol' USA? The same people that run up on the Hannity show bashing Barack Obama and the inner city screaming "WELFARE QUEENS" and "Socialist tax rates" are the same cats that whine about the Yankees payroll and how much money NBA players are making. Hypocrites. --- THEY DONT WORK

If a GM is stupid enough to give Larry Hughes 13 mil, then thats his American right. Why do we need rules and legislation to save him from himself?
Not surprised Falk is poppin' this kind of junk now. He's already MADE his money.
STEPHON MARBURY
I dont get your response
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
arkrud
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2/23/2009  11:16 PM
If economy will go into 5-10 years depression which is very likely possibility NBA will need to do same that all other businesses.
Layoffs and salary cuts. So players will face the salary cut or otherwise the shop closure. They can choose no-salary or less salary.
It is not hard to predict what players will be forced to do.
And yes - some teams will go bankrupt so it will be no problem to downsize - market will correct itself sooner or later.
And later will be more painful that sooner.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
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david falk's blunt warning about the future of the nba
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