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Do Not Trade Nate
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Cash
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2/17/2009  11:38 PM
You keep lee and nate. They bring intangible qualities and are both very well rounded players that would do well to complement a superstar. Duhon is very replaceable(and i wouldn't expect much in a trade back for him). I think Chandler is the guy we try to use to get rid of curry, but I would wait until next season to see how things develop with the economy and such. Chandler has the build, but there does seem to be some motivation or desire lacking. If you can't use him to get rid of curry you keep him. He could be a player.
AUTOADVERT
sidsanders
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2/17/2009  11:43 PM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by islesfan:

I think the Knicks should forget about 2010 and focus on building a great lottery team around Lee and Nate.

Interesting proposition. Without the part of building around Nate and Lee. It should be the other way around, because it's a core we need to focus on for this year and next. Duhon, Nate, Lee, Chandler, Harrington are a very good start as a core.

All others will either be gone or in question, including Mr. disk problem. Either way, I think bringing in players to replace the ending contract that will be effective on offense and especially defense, by the ends of this and next year.

Getting a defensive center 7' plus in height and good weight, is critical. Once we get a solid basic core in here, then getting two prime time stars signed will complete this roster in 2010 or 2011. The last year of curry contract should have been made team option at the least. Oh well.

i dont think the bolded fellow should be part of the core unless he learns some better shot selection among other things.
GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
4949
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2/17/2009  11:45 PM
Posted by sidsanders:
Posted by 4949:
Posted by islesfan:

I think the Knicks should forget about 2010 and focus on building a great lottery team around Lee and Nate.

Interesting proposition. Without the part of building around Nate and Lee. It should be the other way around, because it's a core we need to focus on for this year and next. Duhon, Nate, Lee, Chandler, Harrington are a very good start as a core.

All others will either be gone or in question, including Mr. disk problem. Either way, I think bringing in players to replace the ending contract that will be effective on offense and especially defense, by the ends of this and next year.

Getting a defensive center 7' plus in height and good weight, is critical. Once we get a solid basic core in here, then getting two prime time stars signed will complete this roster in 2010 or 2011. The last year of curry contract should have been made team option at the least. Oh well.

i dont think the bolded fellow should be part of the core unless he learns some better shot selection among other things.

I see the bolded guy coming off the bench mostly in my crystal ball.
I'll never trust this' team again.
sidsanders
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2/17/2009  11:52 PM
he (harrington) seems like he will go and whine to the media cuz he wouldnt like that role... no thanks. the second he acts up, send him home. no gsw reply from this guy please.
GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
4949
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2/17/2009  11:59 PM
Posted by sidsanders:

he (harrington) seems like he will go and whine to the media cuz he wouldnt like that role... no thanks. the second he acts up, send him home. no gsw reply from this guy please.

That applies to everybody.
I'll never trust this' team again.
sidsanders
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2/18/2009  12:05 AM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by sidsanders:

he (harrington) seems like he will go and whine to the media cuz he wouldnt like that role... no thanks. the second he acts up, send him home. no gsw reply from this guy please.

That applies to everybody.

it does though this guy forced a trade to the knicks cuz he didnt like his role/coach. im wary of that. do we need to invest roster spots/$$$ in cats who are "repeat offenders" --> malcontents/off court probs/etc? if he can put the team first that would be and interesting step for his career.
GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
crzymdups
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2/18/2009  12:06 AM
the problem with nate and lee is that they're great players when they're being paid $2M a year. if you have to sign them to $60M contracts, they suddenly become overpaid cap killers. they can't carry a team, really. i'd love to have them here for the long haul and maybe we can afford it because other teams will be guarding their money, but i dunno. are nate and lee combined worth more than bron? sigh.
¿ △ ?
4949
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2/18/2009  12:08 AM
He can be an improvement no doubt. But he's still a big upgrade when you compare him to curry, jerome and marbury. I'll still take him on this team. Cry baby or not.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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2/18/2009  12:09 AM
Posted by crzymdups:

the problem with nate and lee is that they're great players when they're being paid $2M a year. if you have to sign them to $60M contracts, they suddenly become overpaid cap killers. they can't carry a team, really. i'd love to have them here for the long haul and maybe we can afford it because other teams will be guarding their money, but i dunno. are nate and lee combined worth more than bron? sigh.

No one really knows what's going to happen with contracts with these two, so it's a little early to assume the above.
I'll never trust this' team again.
Papabear
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2/18/2009  12:11 AM
Papabear Says

Build around Nate and D Lee and Chandler. Let's draft a 7ft center who has meat on his body and can defend. We will have enough shooters. Nate is the future of the Knicks.
Papabear
sidsanders
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2/18/2009  12:26 AM
make a rookie take on the role of playing d/last line of def? why not get the "franchise" guys to play both ends of the court? if they are gonna get paid and stay, d it up some more. at least if they could play better d, the bad shooting nights wouldnt mean loss by default.
GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
4949
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2/18/2009  12:36 AM
I have an observation that the fact that we don't have a 7' defensive center has caused major headaches with this team as a whole. It puts a lot more pressure on these players to take on the burden of being a better defensive team. If we had that kind of center, then it would bunch up the offensive driver, or post shooter into our guards more, resulting in more turnover/steals.

In other words, this team is a much better defensive team then it is given credit for. By not having that proper center, it's a free and open court, both inside as well as outside and makes it much more harder to have to stop the driver and post shooter in the paint.

Have any of you noticed that we are forced to shoot the ball from the outside of the center position, more then we'd like to, because there is always some 7' agile player in the middle diverting most of our drives? It's no wonder why we have so many TO's. Notice were most of the turnovers occur on the offensive side of things.

[Edited by - 4949 on 02-18-2009 12:39 AM]
I'll never trust this' team again.
knicks1248
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2/18/2009  12:50 AM
Posted by sidsanders:

make a rookie take on the role of playing d/last line of def? why not get the "franchise" guys to play both ends of the court? if they are gonna get paid and stay, d it up some more. at least if they could play better d, the bad shooting nights wouldnt mean loss by default.

It's the team d that suffers more then any thing
ES
sidsanders
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2/18/2009  12:58 AM
is it just a missing center thats allowing opp to shoot > 50% routinely? the perimeter d is still not where it needs to be given that they have to know they are weak in the post. is it really that much to ask to toughen up on the d side of things? good d is desire to me. it helps feed into other nice play. they dont need to be great at it, though that would be nice if they were.

GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
Pharzeone
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2/18/2009  1:19 AM
Posted by sidsanders:

is it just a missing center thats allowing opp to shoot > 50% routinely? the perimeter d is still not where it needs to be given that they have to know they are weak in the post. is it really that much to ask to toughen up on the d side of things? good d is desire to me. it helps feed into other nice play. they dont need to be great at it, though that would be nice if they were.

Yes. Shotblocking is important. That's why it is foolish to just waste draft picks on projects that won't even help your team. This organization has to take a serious look at itself in the off-season. See what is working and what's not. What do we really need to move forward vs. what's nonsense. IMHO, drafting a 6'10 player who can't play in the post, lacks man-to-man defense and hustle for rebounding is another step in the realm of nonsense. If you wanted a SG draft a SG. If you wanted a PF draft a PF.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
islesfan
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2/18/2009  1:34 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by sidsanders:

is it just a missing center thats allowing opp to shoot > 50% routinely? the perimeter d is still not where it needs to be given that they have to know they are weak in the post. is it really that much to ask to toughen up on the d side of things? good d is desire to me. it helps feed into other nice play. they dont need to be great at it, though that would be nice if they were.

Yes. Shotblocking is important. That's why it is foolish to just waste draft picks on projects that won't even help your team. This organization has to take a serious look at itself in the off-season. See what is working and what's not. What do we really need to move forward vs. what's nonsense. IMHO, drafting a 6'10 player who can't play in the post, lacks man-to-man defense and hustle for rebounding is another step in the realm of nonsense. If you wanted a SG draft a SG. If you wanted a PF draft a PF.

That's really unfair. Gallinari has obviously just hit the 12 game wall... in limited minutes.

And you're totally ignoring that he shot 100% from the field last night.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
sidsanders
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2/18/2009  1:36 AM
im not in the "shotblocking is overrated" mindset... i just dont think a def c is gonna be a cure-all for all the deficiencies on d. it may help, wont solve alone. i dont want a def pickup to then let the rest of the team off the hook to step up. ALL these guys need to work both ends of the court as best they can. for nate/lee, it will only help them get paid here or elsewhere and not end up being an albatross.
GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
Pharzeone
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2/18/2009  1:39 AM
Posted by sidsanders:

im not in the "shotblocking is overrated" mindset... i just dont think a def c is gonna be a cure-all for all the deficiencies on d. it may help, wont solve alone. i dont want a def pickup to then let the rest of the team off the hook to step up. ALL these guys need to work both ends of the court as best they can. for nate/lee, it will only help them get paid here or elsewhere and not end up being an albatross.

No one is being let off the hook except maybe Duhon. I think defense is a problem for this team but to ignore the fact that teams normally have a free pass in the paint is avoiding the obvious IMO.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
sidsanders
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2/18/2009  2:01 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by sidsanders:

im not in the "shotblocking is overrated" mindset... i just dont think a def c is gonna be a cure-all for all the deficiencies on d. it may help, wont solve alone. i dont want a def pickup to then let the rest of the team off the hook to step up. ALL these guys need to work both ends of the court as best they can. for nate/lee, it will only help them get paid here or elsewhere and not end up being an albatross.

No one is being let off the hook except maybe Duhon. I think defense is a problem for this team but to ignore the fact that teams normally have a free pass in the paint is avoiding the obvious IMO.

not being ignored by me. i think they have enough probs that the c position wont be able to mask it all. i want them all to improve and get that def c as well... getting a free run to the rim means guys either cant or wont step in to the lane/etc to me. id like to see that improve now as they dont appear to be getting that def c just yet. plus in the long run, if all these guys improve, when they do get the c, things may fall into place nicely...
GO TEAM VENTURE!!!!!
fishmike
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2/18/2009  8:09 AM
bottom line is Lee and Nate are 24/25 and have gotten significantly better every year over their 4 years in the NBA. Lee has his faults but his growth on the offensive side of the ball has been impressive with his moves around the basket and a 15-18 foot jumper that has become quite reliable. Nate is unguardable and like Popavich said really brings it. He's a pullup midrange jumper away from being a star in this league. Not to mention the fact that he's like the same height as my 8 year old daughter and still manages to grab a ton a rebounds.

Either you believe in these guys or you dont.

I will say I believe a hell of a lot more in Lee/Nate/Duhon becoming a winning core of players than I do in Lebron being a Knick in 2010.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Do Not Trade Nate

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