Who let TrueBlue in from recess?

making the playoffs didn't do jack squat for our team or for our young players' development during Isiah's 1st season... all it did was motivate him to make further cap killing moves to try & get further along the following season... if we had tanked we coulda ended up w/some very good young talented players to build around & things would likely look a whole lot different right about now in terms of our roster.

Posted by eViL:

Posted by TMS:

making the playoffs didn't do jack squat for our team or for our young players' development during Isiah's 1st season... all it did was motivate him to make further cap killing moves to try & get further along the following season... if we had tanked we coulda ended up w/some very good young talented players to build around & things would likely look a whole lot different right about now in terms of our roster.

What young players? We didn't have young players last time we made the playoffs? Frank Williams? Really? If we made the playoffs this year it would be completely different than the last time. This time, we'd be making the playoffs as a team powered by its youth.

Look at our key pieces today: Lee, Nate, Chandler, Duhon, Harrington, Gallo.

Look at our key pieces then: Marbury, Anderson, Tim Thomas, Kurt Thomas, Mohammed, Frank Williams.

Today's team is mostly youth. That other team was mostly vets.

And we can thank Cap'n Zeke for that.

What do you want D'Antoni to do, take Nate, Chandler, and Lee out back and put a bullet in them to ensure a last place finish? Tell them to purposefully throw games?

I want them to win and make the playoffs, of course. For one this draft sucks, but most of all this seems like the natural progression for a franchise on the rise. This team has borderline playoff talent, this isnt a mirage.

But what is encouraging about these Knicks is the playoffs dont feel like the-end-all-be-all. Thats the way it felt with Isiah --- that he was just trying to put together a team that was good enough to compete for a slot. Clearly with the moves that Walsh has made, he has a eye on cap flexibility, attracting big time talent, and has an overall plan for the bigger picture.

It just so happens that the fill-in-talent that he has acquired and the young cats are ballin' right now. Well then I'm all for it. Let 'em win, who cares about a couple of slots in a wack ass draft. This is not a 25 win team.

Why is this even a question?

Posted by eViL:

Funny how after all the years in the lottery, it took a strong playoff showing to give the Hawks the boost that they needed.

Posted by nixluva:

This isn't about the last Knick team to make the playoffs, this is about this team and what making the playoffs could mean to them. Don't be so sure that we'd get swept, cuz that didn't happen to the Hawks. We've got a long way to go before we can really know if this team can even make the playoffs, but I think that if they do, they will have earned it and will play well. I really believe MDA will have they prepared to play hard. Who's to say that we would only make it to the 8th spot. Who knows, we might go higher.

We've got Lee, Chan, Gallo and Nate to consider and I think the experience would be great for them.

I put both of these quotes together because winning is what is necessary to turn a franchise around... the Hawks maybe didn't maximize their draft picks, but they still drafted fine players. Their franchise did not turn around until they won.

Now, take OKC/Seattle, they have a lot of great prospects and have been drafting for a long time... they have a great, great franchise grade prospect in Kevin Durant, and they still suck. What about Charlotte? Memphis?

The Knicks have historically blown the draft too... I don't know how much the scouting system has been overhauled or not, but I know how bad it's been. I think establishing a culture of winning will be more conducive to getting a prime UFA here than being bad, and *maybe* drafting a legit prospect.

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by SupremeCommander:

Posted by eViL:

Funny how after all the years in the lottery, it took a strong playoff showing to give the Hawks the boost that they needed.

Posted by nixluva:

This isn't about the last Knick team to make the playoffs, this is about this team and what making the playoffs could mean to them. Don't be so sure that we'd get swept, cuz that didn't happen to the Hawks. We've got a long way to go before we can really know if this team can even make the playoffs, but I think that if they do, they will have earned it and will play well. I really believe MDA will have they prepared to play hard. Who's to say that we would only make it to the 8th spot. Who knows, we might go higher.

We've got Lee, Chan, Gallo and Nate to consider and I think the experience would be great for them.

I put both of these quotes together because winning is what is necessary to turn a franchise around... the Hawks maybe didn't maximize their draft picks, but they still drafted fine players. Their franchise did not turn around until they won.

Now, take OKC/Seattle, they have a lot of great prospects and have been drafting for a long time... they have a great, great franchise grade prospect in Kevin Durant, and they still suck. What about Charlotte? Memphis?

The Knicks have historically blown the draft too... I don't know how much the scouting system has been overhauled or not, but I know how bad it's been. I think establishing a culture of winning will be more conducive to getting a prime UFA here than being bad, and *maybe* drafting a legit prospect.

Franchises get turned around because they get better players, not because the mediocre players they already have get experience as a 1 round and out playoff team.

I still maintain a quality UFA won't sign here unless they can expect to win. The example I cite is Chicago after their greats retired. They couldn't get anyone else but Eddie effing Jones to sign, because no one thought it was a situation conducive to winning. The only way to prove it is a good situation is to produce results.

Not to mention I'm being shortsighted because I'm sick and tired of a team that sucks more schlong than Stephon Marbury on a vacation with Isiah Thomas

[Edited by - supremecommander on 01-28-2009 8:55 PM]

I'm for a lottery pick but i can understand the need for Walsh to be competitive and try to maintain a playoff push because at the end of the day that is what alof of fans pay to see at the garden.

Posted by sebstar:

A little pride never hurt anybody.

Fuck yeah, **** yeah.

Personally, I think the losing atmosphere that has been around here for so long has to go out the window. D'Antoni has these guys playing really tough and playing really well, I really think this team is growing and I think by telling this team to tank games you are just reinforcing the bull**** that Isiah Thomas had going on around here.

Posted by eViL:

Posted by TMS:

making the playoffs didn't do jack squat for our team or for our young players' development during Isiah's 1st season... all it did was motivate him to make further cap killing moves to try & get further along the following season... if we had tanked we coulda ended up w/some very good young talented players to build around & things would likely look a whole lot different right about now in terms of our roster.

What young players? We didn't have young players last time we made the playoffs? Frank Williams? Really? If we made the playoffs this year it would be completely different than the last time. This time, we'd be making the playoffs as a team powered by its youth.

Look at our key pieces today: Lee, Nate, Chandler, Duhon, Harrington, Gallo.

Look at our key pieces then: Marbury, Anderson, Tim Thomas, Kurt Thomas, Mohammed, Frank Williams.

Today's team is mostly youth. That other team was mostly vets.

we had Sweetney, who many thought was the PF of the future for this team at the time, & Frank Wiliams, who many thought could be the PG of the future as well... people used the same old lame argument that those 2 kids would gain valuable playoff experience if we somehow managed to sneak into the playoffs that year.

[Edited by - TMS on 01-28-2009 7:18 PM]

Posted by eViL:

Funny how after all the years in the lottery, it took a strong playoff showing to give the Hawks the boost that they needed.

exactly how many championships have the Hawks won since the last time they made the playoffs? how many do u think they're gonna win as a result of the valuable playoff experience they gained through that experience? is making the playoffs our goal or is winning championships? teams have tanked & won championships the very next season... Boston & San Antonio are prime examples... i would rather follow that method & land ourselves a stud to build around than try to eek out meaningless playoff experience & be stuck w/mediocre prospects for the rest of my life.