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If Holfresh was a baseball manager
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Uptown
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1/12/2009  1:26 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bippity10:

D'Antoni is more concerned with evaluating his players and determining who will fit his system a few years from now then he is in changing his system and trying to maximize wins for this current sorry squad. LB was the same way. We fired him though. Kept the players. Good choice. I say we do it again.

imho, d'antoni knows exactly who he wants and who he doesn't. the evaluation period was over a long time ago. for steph, it was over before the season. the only guys on this team d'antoni probably likes are duhon, chandler and lee. so at this point, if they keep playing the same way all year, would you say he's done a good coaching job this season?

Bip nailed it.

DJ: Mike D was brought in to install his system. He wasn't brought in to dumb down the game for a couple of idiot players. The idea is that by the time 2010 rolls around and we bring players in we're bringing them into an established style of play. The last thing we need to do is play a style that fits this band of retards only to then have to scrap that style the summer of 2010 and start NEW with the actual system Mike wants to run. That would be foolish. There might be a couple of players who remain after 2010 and they need to be experts at the system when that happens.

DO: Establish the system, kick out the players who don't fit, and bring in new players who do and can step into the established system.

DONT: Run a tailor made system for a band of retards who won't be here in a couple of years and then once the new players arrive start over from scratch with the new system.

Newsflash, Lebron and D Wade don't need no system to play well. Wade shoots ball a lot and scores a lot. Lebron does the same. You don't have to be a genius to help them do that. Please stop with this system garbage.
Possible future Knick practice.
: Ok, guys we need to take more 3s.
Lebron: Nah, I don't think we should. Just get me the ball more.
: Ok, guys you hear that. No more 3s. Just get the ball to Lebron. Let's go. Let's go.

then they should fire their coaching staff. Why pay for something you don't need.

Bingo!!!! Mike Brown is stealing money because obviously he isn't needed. Mind as well put Mark Jackson on the sidelines. Phil Jackson has been robbing the Bulls and Lakers for years because MJ and Kobe and Shaq dont need no plays.....
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Nalod
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1/12/2009  1:28 PM
Posted by King1:

and had Pete Incaviglia, Rusty Staub, George Scott, Greg Luzinski, Ed Kranpool, and John Kruk on his team and played small ball and tried to steal bases would he be considered a good manager? We have a team right now that isnt suitable for MDA kind of ball. Why wouldnt we try something different to be competitive instead of jacking up bad shots the whole game? We dont have an offense and we play little defense. I dont see how MDA has developed anyone into a better player this year. I love his attitude and think he is a good coach but how does everyone feel he is doing this year so far.

Mo Vaughn is Eddy Curry.

islesfan
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1/12/2009  2:16 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

D'Antoni is more concerned with evaluating his players and determining who will fit his system a few years from now then he is in changing his system and trying to maximize wins for this current sorry squad. LB was the same way. We fired him though. Kept the players. Good choice. I say we do it again.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 12-01-2009 11:44 AM]

Evaluating how? In his short practices? In the games where they play disjointed and without any appearance that they're being coached?

Larry Brown tried to practice them and implement his style and what he wanted on the court. Of course the team was a bunch of lazy players and jackals that were enabled by a sabotaging GM, Team President and Owner.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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1/12/2009  2:18 PM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bippity10:

D'Antoni is more concerned with evaluating his players and determining who will fit his system a few years from now then he is in changing his system and trying to maximize wins for this current sorry squad. LB was the same way. We fired him though. Kept the players. Good choice. I say we do it again.

imho, d'antoni knows exactly who he wants and who he doesn't. the evaluation period was over a long time ago. for steph, it was over before the season. the only guys on this team d'antoni probably likes are duhon, chandler and lee. so at this point, if they keep playing the same way all year, would you say he's done a good coaching job this season?

Bip nailed it.

DJ: Mike D was brought in to install his system. He wasn't brought in to dumb down the game for a couple of idiot players. The idea is that by the time 2010 rolls around and we bring players in we're bringing them into an established style of play. The last thing we need to do is play a style that fits this band of retards only to then have to scrap that style the summer of 2010 and start NEW with the actual system Mike wants to run. That would be foolish. There might be a couple of players who remain after 2010 and they need to be experts at the system when that happens.

DO: Establish the system, kick out the players who don't fit, and bring in new players who do and can step into the established system.

DONT: Run a tailor made system for a band of retards who won't be here in a couple of years and then once the new players arrive start over from scratch with the new system.

D'Antoni hasn't come close to establishing any type of system so there is no established system to step into. It's Walsh's job to change the roster.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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1/12/2009  2:20 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bippity10:

D'Antoni is more concerned with evaluating his players and determining who will fit his system a few years from now then he is in changing his system and trying to maximize wins for this current sorry squad. LB was the same way. We fired him though. Kept the players. Good choice. I say we do it again.

imho, d'antoni knows exactly who he wants and who he doesn't. the evaluation period was over a long time ago. for steph, it was over before the season. the only guys on this team d'antoni probably likes are duhon, chandler and lee. so at this point, if they keep playing the same way all year, would you say he's done a good coaching job this season?

Bip nailed it.

DJ: Mike D was brought in to install his system. He wasn't brought in to dumb down the game for a couple of idiot players. The idea is that by the time 2010 rolls around and we bring players in we're bringing them into an established style of play. The last thing we need to do is play a style that fits this band of retards only to then have to scrap that style the summer of 2010 and start NEW with the actual system Mike wants to run. That would be foolish. There might be a couple of players who remain after 2010 and they need to be experts at the system when that happens.

DO: Establish the system, kick out the players who don't fit, and bring in new players who do and can step into the established system.

DONT: Run a tailor made system for a band of retards who won't be here in a couple of years and then once the new players arrive start over from scratch with the new system.

Newsflash, Lebron and D Wade don't need no system to play well. Wade shoots ball a lot and scores a lot. Lebron does the same. You don't have to be a genius to help them do that. Please stop with this system garbage.
Possible future Knick practice.
: Ok, guys we need to take more 3s.
Lebron: Nah, I don't think we should. Just get me the ball more.
: Ok, guys you hear that. No more 3s. Just get the ball to Lebron. Let's go. Let's go.

then they should fire their coaching staff. Why pay for something you don't need.

I don't know, but right now they're paying for something that they aren't getting so what's the difference?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Bippity10
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1/12/2009  2:49 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bippity10:

D'Antoni is more concerned with evaluating his players and determining who will fit his system a few years from now then he is in changing his system and trying to maximize wins for this current sorry squad. LB was the same way. We fired him though. Kept the players. Good choice. I say we do it again.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 12-01-2009 11:44 AM]

Evaluating how? In his short practices? In the games where they play disjointed and without any appearance that they're being coached?

Larry Brown tried to practice them and implement his style and what he wanted on the court. Of course the team was a bunch of lazy players and jackals that were enabled by a sabotaging GM, Team President and Owner.

Isles, I'm shocked at how little realization there is on your part of how low this team was before this season. I'm shocked at the overall lack of understanding of the psychological component of the game. 34 games with a team that has 3 years of the worst habits in the NBA. Not sure what you expected. Let's try reducing it to the absurd. I wish I knew he the coach was that you respect, but let's just use Phil Jackson as an example. Let's say you give Phil Jackson a line-up of Eddie Curry, Darius Miles, Oliver Miller, Frank Williams and Steve Francis. Do you think Phil Jackson could turn that team in to a defensive squad that ran his system to perfection. Do you think he could turn that line-up into a hustle unit? Do you think that at any point in the season that squad would be running an efficient offense with the ball zipping around, all 5 guys touching it for open lay-ups? Do you think they would look much better after 34 games then they did at game 1? It would be absurd to think that would happen. How long would it take for that team to become a cohesive unit? The answer is that they would never change. Eight seasons with the greatest coaches in NBa history would not change that team. Why? Because their habits are set.

The only thing that seperates this team from that team, is youth and a wee bit more motivation. We don't have quite as many years of bad habits. But the truth is Nate, Wilson, Al, Jared, David, Eddie have played for losing teams all their careers. They have been mentored and learned the game from other losers. From other selfish players. When it all breaks down they fall back on these habits that they learned from Steph and Stevie and Eddie. It's amazing how few people realize how difficult it is to change these habits. These are the same players, making the same mistakes they did under LB and/or Isiah. At some point you have to realize that there is no magic coach to change them.

Now the question is why is it that as the seasons go on our teams don't improve? The answer lies somewhere in the LB season where everyone said it was okay for the players to quit. I told you that would haunt us for years. I told you it would be near impossible to get rid of. The mentality for all our players is the same. When the going gets difficult............retreat. When the defense gets tight, go one on one. This was taught by Eddie and Steph and Steve etc. It was passed on to Nate and David. It still stays to this very day.

We all know that noone is changing their minds on where they stand right now. That's fine. But the reality is, that no matter who is coach, you will not see much change until you change the roster or give it a heck of a lot more time. But this is NY so it doesn't surprise me that for the 3rd time in 4 seasons we are saying that the coach is quitting on the players. We continue to be in denial that this team is in the same class at the Timberwolves etc.
I just hope that people will like me
Cosmic
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1/12/2009  2:54 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

Newsflash, Lebron and D Wade don't need no system to play well. Wade shoots ball a lot and scores a lot. Lebron does the same. You don't have to be a genius to help them do that. Please stop with this system garbage.
Possible future Knick practice.
: Ok, guys we need to take more 3s.
Lebron: Nah, I don't think we should. Just get me the ball more.
: Ok, guys you hear that. No more 3s. Just get the ball to Lebron. Let's go. Let's go.

You can't really believe this can you? The last guy to not run any system was a downtrodden quitter named Isiah Thomas last season. His clown roster eagerly went on a 1-1 free for all chuck fest. That's what happens when you don't have a system.

Pat Riley's system was successful here and the exact system was installed in Miami and it worked there.
Phil Jackson in Chicago and LA used the same system and it was successful.
Jerry Sloan's system has been outstanding in Utah. 20+ years of winning basketball.
Popovich's system still works wonders.

The problem here is we don't have the personnel. That doesn't mean you hire a crap coach to guide it until you do - something I admittedly thought we should have - but was clearly wrong. You get the coach to install his system so whatever players are here in the future will already be experts at it. The new players come in to a system that's already well established and they learn the system. Once they do then you're a very good team much like the Suns were under Mike. Many players were sad to see him go and are not happy with Porter's system.

So to discount the coach and their systems is a poor idea.

If you think you can land LeBron and just let him go out there and chuck us to victories you're going to be disappointed.
http://popcornmachine.net/ A must-use tool for NBA stat junkies!
nyk4ever
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1/12/2009  2:54 PM
Bip that is one hell of a post.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Bippity10
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1/12/2009  3:02 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Bip that is one hell of a post.

Does NYsportsfan11 know that you are cheating on him
I just hope that people will like me
martin
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1/12/2009  3:03 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Bip that is one hell of a post.

jezz dude, don't encourage him!
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TMS
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1/12/2009  3:04 PM
kiss ass.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
nyk4ever
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1/12/2009  3:04 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by nyk4ever:

Bip that is one hell of a post.

Does NYsportsfan11 know that you are cheating on him

no, please don't tell
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
nyk4ever
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1/12/2009  3:04 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by nyk4ever:

Bip that is one hell of a post.

jezz dude, don't encourage him!

Yeah, what am I thinking? It's like feeding a wild animal.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
nyk4ever
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1/12/2009  3:07 PM
Posted by TMS:

kiss ass.

Listen, you just got pwned by Jones. Zip it.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Uptown
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1/12/2009  3:11 PM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by Pharzeone:

Newsflash, Lebron and D Wade don't need no system to play well. Wade shoots ball a lot and scores a lot. Lebron does the same. You don't have to be a genius to help them do that. Please stop with this system garbage.
Possible future Knick practice.
: Ok, guys we need to take more 3s.
Lebron: Nah, I don't think we should. Just get me the ball more.
: Ok, guys you hear that. No more 3s. Just get the ball to Lebron. Let's go. Let's go.

You can't really believe this can you? The last guy to not run any system was a downtrodden quitter named Isiah Thomas last season. His clown roster eagerly went on a 1-1 free for all chuck fest. That's what happens when you don't have a system.

Pat Riley's system was successful here and the exact system was installed in Miami and it worked there.
Phil Jackson in Chicago and LA used the same system and it was successful.
Jerry Sloan's system has been outstanding in Utah. 20+ years of winning basketball.
Popovich's system still works wonders.

The problem here is we don't have the personnel. That doesn't mean you hire a crap coach to guide it until you do - something I admittedly thought we should have - but was clearly wrong. You get the coach to install his system so whatever players are here in the future will already be experts at it. The new players come in to a system that's already well established and they learn the system. Once they do then you're a very good team much like the Suns were under Mike. Many players were sad to see him go and are not happy with Porter's system.

So to discount the coach and their systems is a poor idea.

If you think you can land LeBron and just let him go out there and chuck us to victories you're going to be disappointed.


Great points here about installing a system and a winning attitude. Similar to what Bip was saying bad habits as well as good habits can be learned. Establish your system and beliefs regardless of the roster. Eventually, you bring in the players you need to run it but it takes a committment from the coach and GM. The idea that MDA needs to adjust to this horrid roster is absurd.
TMS
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1/12/2009  3:14 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by TMS:

kiss ass.

Listen, you just got pwned by Jones. Zip it.

Jones couldn't pwn a 10K poster much less a 20K master of the universe poster such as myself... maybe isles could be pwned by him.

[Edited by - TMS on 01-12-2009 12:15 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bippity10
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1/12/2009  3:16 PM
Posted by Uptown:
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by Pharzeone:

Newsflash, Lebron and D Wade don't need no system to play well. Wade shoots ball a lot and scores a lot. Lebron does the same. You don't have to be a genius to help them do that. Please stop with this system garbage.
Possible future Knick practice.
: Ok, guys we need to take more 3s.
Lebron: Nah, I don't think we should. Just get me the ball more.
: Ok, guys you hear that. No more 3s. Just get the ball to Lebron. Let's go. Let's go.

You can't really believe this can you? The last guy to not run any system was a downtrodden quitter named Isiah Thomas last season. His clown roster eagerly went on a 1-1 free for all chuck fest. That's what happens when you don't have a system.

Pat Riley's system was successful here and the exact system was installed in Miami and it worked there.
Phil Jackson in Chicago and LA used the same system and it was successful.
Jerry Sloan's system has been outstanding in Utah. 20+ years of winning basketball.
Popovich's system still works wonders.

The problem here is we don't have the personnel. That doesn't mean you hire a crap coach to guide it until you do - something I admittedly thought we should have - but was clearly wrong. You get the coach to install his system so whatever players are here in the future will already be experts at it. The new players come in to a system that's already well established and they learn the system. Once they do then you're a very good team much like the Suns were under Mike. Many players were sad to see him go and are not happy with Porter's system.

So to discount the coach and their systems is a poor idea.

If you think you can land LeBron and just let him go out there and chuck us to victories you're going to be disappointed.


Great points here about installing a system and a winning attitude. Similar to what Bip was saying bad habits as well as good habits can be learned. Establish your system and beliefs regardless of the roster. Eventually, you bring in the players you need to run it but it takes a committment from the coach and GM. The idea that MDA needs to adjust to this horrid roster is absurd.

If you think Cosmic made some great points. You should read Bip's post. He made some fantastic points. You should go check it out. Bring friends, they will enjoy it too.
I just hope that people will like me
nyk4ever
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1/12/2009  3:17 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by TMS:

kiss ass.

Listen, you just got pwned by Jones. Zip it.

Jones couldn't pwn a 10K poster much less a 20K master of the universe poster such as myself... maybe isles could be pwned by him.

[Edited by - TMS on 01-12-2009 12:15 PM]

LOL!
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
djsunyc
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1/12/2009  3:20 PM
Posted by Uptown:
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by Pharzeone:

Newsflash, Lebron and D Wade don't need no system to play well. Wade shoots ball a lot and scores a lot. Lebron does the same. You don't have to be a genius to help them do that. Please stop with this system garbage.
Possible future Knick practice.
: Ok, guys we need to take more 3s.
Lebron: Nah, I don't think we should. Just get me the ball more.
: Ok, guys you hear that. No more 3s. Just get the ball to Lebron. Let's go. Let's go.

You can't really believe this can you? The last guy to not run any system was a downtrodden quitter named Isiah Thomas last season. His clown roster eagerly went on a 1-1 free for all chuck fest. That's what happens when you don't have a system.

Pat Riley's system was successful here and the exact system was installed in Miami and it worked there.
Phil Jackson in Chicago and LA used the same system and it was successful.
Jerry Sloan's system has been outstanding in Utah. 20+ years of winning basketball.
Popovich's system still works wonders.

The problem here is we don't have the personnel. That doesn't mean you hire a crap coach to guide it until you do - something I admittedly thought we should have - but was clearly wrong. You get the coach to install his system so whatever players are here in the future will already be experts at it. The new players come in to a system that's already well established and they learn the system. Once they do then you're a very good team much like the Suns were under Mike. Many players were sad to see him go and are not happy with Porter's system.

So to discount the coach and their systems is a poor idea.

If you think you can land LeBron and just let him go out there and chuck us to victories you're going to be disappointed.


Great points here about installing a system and a winning attitude. Similar to what Bip was saying bad habits as well as good habits can be learned. Establish your system and beliefs regardless of the roster. Eventually, you bring in the players you need to run it but it takes a committment from the coach and GM. The idea that MDA needs to adjust to this horrid roster is absurd.

i would just like to re-iterate that d'antoni is a good hiring for the knicks. but what exactly are we talking about here? we're not talking about him taking this team and winning 45 games and making the playoffs. we're talking about adding a few new plays b/c it's obvious that this team is really struggling with this system. if he refuses to change anything and continues in this manner, would he basically not be coasting? passing the ball around and shooting it early in the clock is not exactly a system that requires rocket scientists. i don't think these players are dumb or have trouble grasping it. i think they're just not good enough to execute it. if that's the case, then why not run some different plays that *could* make things easier...at least try, you know?
BasketballJones
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1/12/2009  3:21 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Uptown:
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by Pharzeone:

Newsflash, Lebron and D Wade don't need no system to play well. Wade shoots ball a lot and scores a lot. Lebron does the same. You don't have to be a genius to help them do that. Please stop with this system garbage.
Possible future Knick practice.
: Ok, guys we need to take more 3s.
Lebron: Nah, I don't think we should. Just get me the ball more.
: Ok, guys you hear that. No more 3s. Just get the ball to Lebron. Let's go. Let's go.

You can't really believe this can you? The last guy to not run any system was a downtrodden quitter named Isiah Thomas last season. His clown roster eagerly went on a 1-1 free for all chuck fest. That's what happens when you don't have a system.

Pat Riley's system was successful here and the exact system was installed in Miami and it worked there.
Phil Jackson in Chicago and LA used the same system and it was successful.
Jerry Sloan's system has been outstanding in Utah. 20+ years of winning basketball.
Popovich's system still works wonders.

The problem here is we don't have the personnel. That doesn't mean you hire a crap coach to guide it until you do - something I admittedly thought we should have - but was clearly wrong. You get the coach to install his system so whatever players are here in the future will already be experts at it. The new players come in to a system that's already well established and they learn the system. Once they do then you're a very good team much like the Suns were under Mike. Many players were sad to see him go and are not happy with Porter's system.

So to discount the coach and their systems is a poor idea.

If you think you can land LeBron and just let him go out there and chuck us to victories you're going to be disappointed.


Great points here about installing a system and a winning attitude. Similar to what Bip was saying bad habits as well as good habits can be learned. Establish your system and beliefs regardless of the roster. Eventually, you bring in the players you need to run it but it takes a committment from the coach and GM. The idea that MDA needs to adjust to this horrid roster is absurd.

i would just like to re-iterate that d'antoni is a good hiring for the knicks. but what exactly are we talking about here? we're not talking about him taking this team and winning 45 games and making the playoffs. we're talking about adding a few new plays b/c it's obvious that this team is really struggling with this system. if he refuses to change anything and continues in this manner, would he basically not be coasting? passing the ball around and shooting it early in the clock is not exactly a system that requires rocket scientists. i don't think these players are dumb or have trouble grasping it. i think they're just not good enough to execute it. if that's the case, then why not run some different plays that *could* make things easier...at least try, you know?

Get off your hobby horse.

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If Holfresh was a baseball manager

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