Posted by islesfan:

No, you can rebuild in NY. What you can't do is waste 2 years of the rebuilding process. Players need to be coached and draft picks, especially lottery picks, can't be busts.

The only unrealistic people here are those who talk about wins, as if they have anything to do with this process.

I was very much behind Walsh's hiring and against D'Antoni's. Walsh has failed miserably at adding young players but has done a great job getting rid of contracts so he gets a partial pass. D'Antoni on the other hand has done nothing to make me thing I was wrong about him from the beginning. In fact, he's been worse than advertised.

Thats exactly the point of this thread. How can you say that two years will be lost? How can you say Walsh has failed miserably in adding young players? How can you say D'Antoni has done nothing, isn't teaching the players, etc? How can you say all this when we aren't even in mid season?

Because in NY people don't have patience. They love to talk about rebuilding but still want the team to make silly trades just to get a 8th spot in the playoffs and call it "progress". They want to believe that a 6-5 start is the signs of being a contender. You are right that its silly to expect many wins from this team. But its also silly to criticize the people that just got here for all the terrible, horrible decisions made before.

Wanna teach all this old dogs a new trick? Go on and try. Im sure D'Antoni is working hard to do so but that doesn't mean this low bb IQ players will get it and show it on the court. As it has been mentioned, not only D'Antoni, but many other coaches have stated that this team has many players that don't know how to play basketball. And Im not just defending D'Antoni to do so, but the truth is that both Mike D and Donnie Walsh need more than less of a half season to be evaluated fairly.

But I see that you just have it against Mike because he isn't a defensive minded coach. He sucks and will always do, no matter what. Yeah, I guess we have to bring Jeff Van Gundy back. He surely would be elevating the game of all this players.

This is what I am talking about when I refer to the Scott Layden syndrome. Isiah did it early on in his tenture. Kept changing the roster but blaming the previous regime players. Unless we start to single out individual players this will continue. Is it Lee? Chandler? Nate? QRich? Jeffries? I thought with the removal of Thomas, accountability would finally return but it appears it hasn't. It is still the last guy fault until the clock runs out.

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by martin:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Solace:

Posted by islesfan:

No, you can rebuild in NY. What you can't do is waste 2 years of the rebuilding process. Players need to be coached and draft picks, especially lottery picks, can't be busts.

The only unrealistic people here are those who talk about wins, as if they have anything to do with this process.

I was very much behind Walsh's hiring and against D'Antoni's. Walsh has failed miserably at adding young players but has done a great job getting rid of contracts so he gets a partial pass. D'Antoni on the other hand has done nothing to make me thing I was wrong about him from the beginning. In fact, he's been worse than advertised.

I don't see how D'Antoni's been worse than advertised? How are you grading D'Antoni? Additionally, I don't think that we're wasting two years right now. We have some young players... perhaps no young studs, but those are very hard to acquire if you're trying to shed cap at the same time.

There is no discernible coaching being done. After training camp and almost half a season, players still have no clue about how to play in D'Antoni's system. It's chucking 3's, going one on one with no movement or spacing on offense. That's pretty pathetic for an alleged offensive genius, don't you think? And the defense is still atrocious but I guess that was to be expected under D'Antoni and his gimmick system.

how are you calibrating your opinion after the team traded their best 2 players and have had injuries? We are also in month 2, right?

Seems to me Duhon/Lee pick-n-roll have been a pretty good addition since the beginning of the year. Chandler's game is coming alone nicely.

JJ2 is what he is and so is Q. You expect wine out of water from those guys?

Harrington came in as a chucker and so far he has lived up to expectations. Nate came on strong in the beginning and is now struggling.

Who am I missing?

This is subjective Martin. As already mentioned. Lee numbers are similar to what he did under Isiah except 5 more points. Duhon's numbers are the similar to Marbury's especially when you actually look at the fact Duhon turnover to assist ratio is pretty bad. Turnovers still plague this team and maybe even worst than previous years. Chandler was talked about being a sleeper at the end of last season. Walsh was talking about Chandler while D'Antoni was coaching the Suns last April. Nate is Nate except that he appears to regressing and is unable to get to the foul line as in previous years. You can't fudge the figures. The record and the results are what they are.

Anything else? Is someone averaging 0.1 points less in another area? Geez, did you read what you wrote? Lee's numbers are the same except for 5 more points? Really? Doesn't that say something about the improved offensive game many are raving about? And Duhon's numbers simply similar to Marbury's? Really, for a backup point guard having to start and actually having no real backup of his own? Turnovers plague, maybe because they are playing at a better pace and are still learning a new system. Chandler hasn't improved? Yeah, he should be an All Star right now, instead of the inconsistent and still learning rookie he is. Nate hasn't improved a bit and its all because of D'Antoni. Oh man...

Please! Again this is why the thread stands: you can't rebuild in NY. Better yet, NY fans can't deal with rebuilding. Thank God management is still doing it no matter what.

Posted by GallOfFame:


You might want to add our GM has failed at being on the same page as the coach.

I agree with you about our coach's performance it's been atrocious. Saying in the Post Game Conference yesterday that "We Have To Play Learn Basketball All Over Again" is so an Isiah Post Game sound bite. We didn't bring you here to be saying things like this and calling out individual players in the press. We've been through this before and have heard this already. We aren't executing on either side of the ball and our players performances look worse than ever.


[Edited by - GallOfFame on 01-12-2009 01:03 AM]

Oh man, its really the coach. No matter if two or more coaches have said the same thing before, no, its not the players. Its not that they really don't know how to play basketball, its because the coach that has been in his job for less than a half season has failed to make this amazingly talented players solid contributors.

Its all Walsh and D'Antoni's fault. Forget that we are starting January, fire them both already. You can't rebuild in NY anyway.

Posted by Knicksfan:

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by martin:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Solace:

Posted by islesfan:

No, you can rebuild in NY. What you can't do is waste 2 years of the rebuilding process. Players need to be coached and draft picks, especially lottery picks, can't be busts.

The only unrealistic people here are those who talk about wins, as if they have anything to do with this process.

I was very much behind Walsh's hiring and against D'Antoni's. Walsh has failed miserably at adding young players but has done a great job getting rid of contracts so he gets a partial pass. D'Antoni on the other hand has done nothing to make me thing I was wrong about him from the beginning. In fact, he's been worse than advertised.

I don't see how D'Antoni's been worse than advertised? How are you grading D'Antoni? Additionally, I don't think that we're wasting two years right now. We have some young players... perhaps no young studs, but those are very hard to acquire if you're trying to shed cap at the same time.

There is no discernible coaching being done. After training camp and almost half a season, players still have no clue about how to play in D'Antoni's system. It's chucking 3's, going one on one with no movement or spacing on offense. That's pretty pathetic for an alleged offensive genius, don't you think? And the defense is still atrocious but I guess that was to be expected under D'Antoni and his gimmick system.

how are you calibrating your opinion after the team traded their best 2 players and have had injuries? We are also in month 2, right?

Seems to me Duhon/Lee pick-n-roll have been a pretty good addition since the beginning of the year. Chandler's game is coming alone nicely.

JJ2 is what he is and so is Q. You expect wine out of water from those guys?

Harrington came in as a chucker and so far he has lived up to expectations. Nate came on strong in the beginning and is now struggling.

Who am I missing?

This is subjective Martin. As already mentioned. Lee numbers are similar to what he did under Isiah except 5 more points. Duhon's numbers are the similar to Marbury's especially when you actually look at the fact Duhon turnover to assist ratio is pretty bad. Turnovers still plague this team and maybe even worst than previous years. Chandler was talked about being a sleeper at the end of last season. Walsh was talking about Chandler while D'Antoni was coaching the Suns last April. Nate is Nate except that he appears to regressing and is unable to get to the foul line as in previous years. You can't fudge the figures. The record and the results are what they are.

Anything else? Is someone averaging 0.1 points less in another area? Geez, did you read what you wrote? Lee's numbers are the same except for 5 more points? Really? Doesn't that say something about the improved offensive game many are raving about? And Duhon's numbers simply similar to Marbury's? Really, for a backup point guard having to start and actually having no real backup of his own? Turnovers plague, maybe because they are playing at a better pace and are still learning a new system. Chandler hasn't improved? Yeah, he should be an All Star right now, instead of the inconsistent and still learning rookie he is. Nate hasn't improved a bit and its all because of D'Antoni. Oh man...

Please! Again this is why the thread stands: you can't rebuild in NY. Better yet, NY fans can't deal with rebuilding. Thank God management is still doing it no matter what.

Actually Lee's numbers are 5.7pts and 2.2reb better than last yr but he's also playing about 6min/gm so obviously his numbers would improve. Keep in mind Lee's minutes were split with Zach. If you look at Lee's numbers before Zach got traded they were pretty much equal to last yr's numbers. His FGA are up 3FGA/gm. Lee's numbers are a byproduct of increased role.

Posted by NineMike2Whiskey:

Maybe we can start a poll...how long do we give D'Antoni/Walsh until we classify them in the same mold as Isiah

How long? They have been that before the season began for most around here.

Posted by GallOfFame:

Posted by Knicksfan:

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by martin:

Posted by islesfan:

Posted by Solace:

Posted by islesfan:

No, you can rebuild in NY. What you can't do is waste 2 years of the rebuilding process. Players need to be coached and draft picks, especially lottery picks, can't be busts.

The only unrealistic people here are those who talk about wins, as if they have anything to do with this process.

I was very much behind Walsh's hiring and against D'Antoni's. Walsh has failed miserably at adding young players but has done a great job getting rid of contracts so he gets a partial pass. D'Antoni on the other hand has done nothing to make me thing I was wrong about him from the beginning. In fact, he's been worse than advertised.

I don't see how D'Antoni's been worse than advertised? How are you grading D'Antoni? Additionally, I don't think that we're wasting two years right now. We have some young players... perhaps no young studs, but those are very hard to acquire if you're trying to shed cap at the same time.

There is no discernible coaching being done. After training camp and almost half a season, players still have no clue about how to play in D'Antoni's system. It's chucking 3's, going one on one with no movement or spacing on offense. That's pretty pathetic for an alleged offensive genius, don't you think? And the defense is still atrocious but I guess that was to be expected under D'Antoni and his gimmick system.

how are you calibrating your opinion after the team traded their best 2 players and have had injuries? We are also in month 2, right?

Seems to me Duhon/Lee pick-n-roll have been a pretty good addition since the beginning of the year. Chandler's game is coming alone nicely.

JJ2 is what he is and so is Q. You expect wine out of water from those guys?

Harrington came in as a chucker and so far he has lived up to expectations. Nate came on strong in the beginning and is now struggling.

Who am I missing?

This is subjective Martin. As already mentioned. Lee numbers are similar to what he did under Isiah except 5 more points. Duhon's numbers are the similar to Marbury's especially when you actually look at the fact Duhon turnover to assist ratio is pretty bad. Turnovers still plague this team and maybe even worst than previous years. Chandler was talked about being a sleeper at the end of last season. Walsh was talking about Chandler while D'Antoni was coaching the Suns last April. Nate is Nate except that he appears to regressing and is unable to get to the foul line as in previous years. You can't fudge the figures. The record and the results are what they are.

Anything else? Is someone averaging 0.1 points less in another area? Geez, did you read what you wrote? Lee's numbers are the same except for 5 more points? Really? Doesn't that say something about the improved offensive game many are raving about? And Duhon's numbers simply similar to Marbury's? Really, for a backup point guard having to start and actually having no real backup of his own? Turnovers plague, maybe because they are playing at a better pace and are still learning a new system. Chandler hasn't improved? Yeah, he should be an All Star right now, instead of the inconsistent and still learning rookie he is. Nate hasn't improved a bit and its all because of D'Antoni. Oh man...

Please! Again this is why the thread stands: you can't rebuild in NY. Better yet, NY fans can't deal with rebuilding. Thank God management is still doing it no matter what.

Actually Lee's numbers are 5.7pts and 2.2reb better than last yr but he's also playing about 6min/gm so obviously his numbers would improve. Keep in mind Lee's minutes were split with Zach. If you look at Lee's numbers before Zach got traded they were pretty much equal to last yr's numbers. His FGA are up 3FGA/gm. Lee's numbers are a byproduct of increased role.

Anything else? Is he 0.1 points lower than last year in another area? That definitely is D'Antoni's fault, but any improvement is a byproduct of an increased role.

You are so convinced that Mike D is such a terrible coach and influence to the team that nothing will change your mind. As said earlier, its never bad to have different opinions but while Im not convinced to say D'Antoni is our savior, Im willing to give him more time to evaluate him, especially with a better roster. Isn't that the point of this thread, that we need to have patience? Not jump of the bridge after less than half a season.

Posted by GallOfFame:

Posted by TMS:

NY fans can't deal with rebuilding

pretty much

This is retarded. It may apply to a select few but many don't have a problem with losing. They don't like the way we lose and the fact we are showing the same exact tendencies as in previous yrs. Like sulking and feeling sorry for themselves when they are down, letting NBDL players out play them, poor execution in close games. If all those things didn't exist yet we still lost most fans would be cool. We are probably going to set a record low in blks and are dead last in FG% allowed and allow 107ppg.

Unacceptable.

i don't like seeing the lack of execution either but in the big picture i knew this team would suck & don't expect much to change for another year or so at the very least... that's what rebuilding entails... MDA & Walsh are trying to rebuild the mess Isiah left behind, just like Isiah was trying to rebuild the mess Layden left behind... Isiah failed miserably obviously... whether Walsh fails or not is yet to be seen, but right now all he's trying to do is set himself up where he can make the types of moves that will in his mind really have a positive impact on this roster... that means we're still in the sucking phase... & that means no one should expect much different for now.

How worse would have the record been if Mark Jackson was running the sidelines

woulda been the same, & we woulda been here talking about how Mark Jackson wasn't developing these players & how no one's improved under his coaching.

[Edited by - TMS on 01-11-2009 10:52 PM]