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djsunyc
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1/11/2009  8:21 PM
once you get rid of the championship or bust mantra, then d'antoni has been very successful as a head coach with the suns.
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djsunyc
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1/11/2009  8:22 PM
Posted by Vmart:

Its always easy to blame the coach, but everyone on this board knows that no coach can help the Knicks. The Knicks needs are much more than coaching their is a lack of talent on the is team. No superstars. The talent is lacking and has been for a long long time now. To put blame on the coach is ridiculous IMHO. You can bring back JVG, Phil Jackson or Red from the heaven and you will find than no coach will be able to help this pile of crap for talent.

The Knicks better pray hard that Chandler and Gallanari turn out to be superstars because as of right now I don't see any thing that can help the Knicks. Except a star franchise player in 2010 and that might be pipe dream.

i agree with you. but what you stated also is a clear example of why d'antoni was a hire for 2010 too (and not for 2008 or 2009).
nixluva
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1/11/2009  9:03 PM
P A T I E N C E D A M N I T !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GEEEZ! What is it gonna take to get thru to some of us that this team is just the interim to far better days?

I really hate to see the team lose, but if they must lose at least let it be for the purpose of heading in the right direction. Let it be for us moving toward the chance to bring in the best talent available.

There's no way that you can fairly judge how good MDA is until we finally put the talent he needs on this team. I think it's obvious that if he had top talent he could win with it. I think even this flawed team could be winning more of these games if we had a few more players who have the skills needed to play in his system. The open shots are there and even the Defensive scheme isn't bad if you have shooters and a defensive core that included at least one real shotblocker along with perimeter players who defend well. It's not that hard to believe this team can win once MDA and Walsh get a chance to bring in the talent.
Silverfuel
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1/11/2009  9:37 PM
Posted by nixluva:

I really hate to see the team lose, but if they must lose at least let it be for the purpose of heading in the right direction. Let it be for us moving toward the chance to bring in the best talent available.
I know what you mean. I hate it when the Knicks lose and even after all this time I cannot detach myself from this season unless I take a look at this http://www.realgm.com/src_freeagents/2010/ which will hopefully result in this:

A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Pharzeone
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1/11/2009  10:18 PM
So apparently the theory now being set forth is that D'Antoni cannot win unless he has superstar talent. So basically he is like the other 29 head coaches in the league and many who aren't working in the league right now. Mike Brown was able to get to finals with just a Lebron but D'Antoni needs more to make his system work? He had a two time MVP and two all-stars and somehow it wasn't enough. So what is the big deal about his "7 seconds or less" system? Does that system only work if your name is Nash, Amare and Marion? Will it only work if your name is Lebron, Wade or Bosh? Is it a real system or just a gimmick as they call it in LA and San Antonio. I think there are some serious questions that will need to be answered before 2010 about what you actually have on the Knicks sideline. What's the barometer for 2010, just acquiring the free agents? Making the playoffs as the 8th seed? Having the best record in the league? I guess I see a plan for the organization but I am unsure where the coach really fits into it.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
islesfan
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1/11/2009  10:31 PM
Larry Brown's "System" won without superstar talent. Larry Brown tries teaching whoever is on his team regardless of expectations. So does Riley, Jackson, Popovich, Sloan and every other good coach. They don't cry about not having the right players for their system and take entire seasons off.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
martin
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1/11/2009  10:34 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Larry Brown's "System" won without superstar talent. Larry Brown tries teaching whoever is on his team regardless of expectations. So does Riley, Jackson, Popovich, Sloan and every other good coach. They don't cry about not having the right players for their system and take entire seasons off.

apparently you didn't catch LB with the KNicks.
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GallOfFame
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1/11/2009  10:49 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:

Larry Brown's "System" won without superstar talent. Larry Brown tries teaching whoever is on his team regardless of expectations. So does Riley, Jackson, Popovich, Sloan and every other good coach. They don't cry about not having the right players for their system and take entire seasons off.

apparently you didn't catch LB with the KNicks.

I think there's a difference in having almost half the team not wanting to play in a coach's system from the start and performing terribly versus players wanting to play in a coach's system and saying it's the perfect situation for their game and performing terribly.

Larry Brown wasn't saying things like "Lebron would play the 4 in his system" like Pringles stated before the season started, already begging for him. Larry just wanted players that would actually allow him to coach instead of fight with him.
islesfan
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1/11/2009  11:09 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:

Larry Brown's "System" won without superstar talent. Larry Brown tries teaching whoever is on his team regardless of expectations. So does Riley, Jackson, Popovich, Sloan and every other good coach. They don't cry about not having the right players for their system and take entire seasons off.

apparently you didn't catch LB with the KNicks.

I also must have missed the GM, Team President and Owner sabotaging D'Antoni the way they did Brown when he was with the Knicks.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
arkrud
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1/11/2009  11:25 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Larry Brown's "System" won without superstar talent. Larry Brown tries teaching whoever is on his team regardless of expectations. So does Riley, Jackson, Popovich, Sloan and every other good coach. They don't cry about not having the right players for their system and take entire seasons off.

Yep...
Riley had Wade and Shaq
Jackson had Kobe, Shaq
Popovich has Tim, Ginobly, Parker
Sloan had Stockton and Mellon

If you think that coach in NBA can win without stars you have no idea... and because I know you have very good idea... it is just you against the damn management attitude.

All great teams had terrible "years off" when they was building the winning team.
Spurs, Utah, Heat were extremely bad for along stretch of seasons. So were Knicks before they start winning.











"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
arkrud
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1/11/2009  11:29 PM
And toking about defense...
This Knicks 90th team that you idolize were soooo boring that only some special limited brand of NY fans were able to appreciate their game.
Why you want to watch this "action" again when NBA went for more exiting and entertaining style all over the country?

[Edited by - arkrud on 01-11-2009 11:30 PM]
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
TMS
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1/11/2009  11:41 PM
forget about MDA, why can't these players just play hard for their own sense of pride for a change? how many seasons are we gonna keep blaming the coach for not motivating these sorry losers? for God's sakes, D Lee & Nate are both playing for their contracts this season... D Lee gets a pass cuz he's been playing hard all year, what's Nate's excuse? why isn't he doing the same things he was doing earlier in the season when he was making people turn their heads & take notice of his game in a positive fashion? why isn't he creating havoc in the passing lanes & running the break like he was doing earlier in the season? did MDA suddenly tell him to stop doing those things? i seriously doubt it.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
arkrud
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1/11/2009  11:53 PM
Posted by TMS:

forget about MDA, why can't these players just play hard for their own sense of pride for a change? how many seasons are we gonna keep blaming the coach for not motivating these sorry losers? for God's sakes, D Lee & Nate are both playing for their contracts this season... D Lee gets a pass cuz he's been playing hard all year, what's Nate's excuse? why isn't he doing the same things he was doing earlier in the season when he was making people turn their heads & take notice of his game in a positive fashion? why isn't he creating havoc in the passing lanes & running the break like he was doing earlier in the season? did MDA suddenly tell him to stop doing those things? i seriously doubt it.

Nate is exposed on this team as he cannot be effective for long minutes because he is... hmm.. undersized physically and mentally. And nobody can cover for him when he should go to the bench.
Al is talented and physically gifted player but mentally he is just as Nate. And again he exposed same way.


"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
TMS
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1/12/2009  12:07 AM
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by TMS:

forget about MDA, why can't these players just play hard for their own sense of pride for a change? how many seasons are we gonna keep blaming the coach for not motivating these sorry losers? for God's sakes, D Lee & Nate are both playing for their contracts this season... D Lee gets a pass cuz he's been playing hard all year, what's Nate's excuse? why isn't he doing the same things he was doing earlier in the season when he was making people turn their heads & take notice of his game in a positive fashion? why isn't he creating havoc in the passing lanes & running the break like he was doing earlier in the season? did MDA suddenly tell him to stop doing those things? i seriously doubt it.

Nate is exposed on this team as he cannot be effective for long minutes because he is... hmm.. undersized physically and mentally. And nobody can cover for him when he should go to the bench.
Al is talented and physically gifted player but mentally he is just as Nate. And again he exposed same way.

Nate is exposed through his own choice... he can be very effective if he embraces his role & plays the style of game he was playing earlier in the season... instead he's tried to become some kinda go-to guy after Jamal left & has completely lost focus on the things he was doing earlier in the season that made people take notice of his game... same thing for Al... Donnie's description of him was dead on... the way he plays he seems to think he should be the man on this team & is trying to overcompensate for the team's overall lack of talent... that's not how he or Nate are gonna succeed in this league... they're both role players that need to learn how to embrace their roles & stop trying to take the load on their backs, cuz neither one of them are good enough to be the man on any winning team.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Knicksfan
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1/12/2009  2:10 AM
Posted by islesfan:

Larry Brown's "System" won without superstar talent. Larry Brown tries teaching whoever is on his team regardless of expectations. So does Riley, Jackson, Popovich, Sloan and every other good coach. They don't cry about not having the right players for their system and take entire seasons off.

You really wrote this? Larry Brown doesn't cry about not having the right players for their system and take entire seasons off?

D'Antoni takes entire seasons off?

If you blame D'Antoni for the players not improving, then Larry is twice as guilty.

My God, how fast NY fans forget.


Knicks_Fan
Knicksfan
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1/12/2009  2:14 AM
Posted by GallOfFame:
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:

Larry Brown's "System" won without superstar talent. Larry Brown tries teaching whoever is on his team regardless of expectations. So does Riley, Jackson, Popovich, Sloan and every other good coach. They don't cry about not having the right players for their system and take entire seasons off.

apparently you didn't catch LB with the KNicks.

I think there's a difference in having almost half the team not wanting to play in a coach's system from the start and performing terribly versus players wanting to play in a coach's system and saying it's the perfect situation for their game and performing terribly.

Larry Brown wasn't saying things like "Lebron would play the 4 in his system" like Pringles stated before the season started, already begging for him. Larry just wanted players that would actually allow him to coach instead of fight with him.

Wow, this is unbelievable. No point arguing with you. You simply hate Mike D with passion. I could go on trying to explain why its logic and fair to give Mike D enough time before evaluating his results, especially since this is his first season and the talent is lacking. But when fans start defending Larry Brown and his stint in NY and keep burying Mike D, you know its just pure hate.


Knicks_Fan
GallOfFame
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1/12/2009  2:24 AM
Posted by Knicksfan:
Posted by GallOfFame:
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:

Larry Brown's "System" won without superstar talent. Larry Brown tries teaching whoever is on his team regardless of expectations. So does Riley, Jackson, Popovich, Sloan and every other good coach. They don't cry about not having the right players for their system and take entire seasons off.

apparently you didn't catch LB with the KNicks.

I think there's a difference in having almost half the team not wanting to play in a coach's system from the start and performing terribly versus players wanting to play in a coach's system and saying it's the perfect situation for their game and performing terribly.

Larry Brown wasn't saying things like "Lebron would play the 4 in his system" like Pringles stated before the season started, already begging for him. Larry just wanted players that would actually allow him to coach instead of fight with him.

Wow, this is unbelievable. No point arguing with you. You simply hate Mike D with passion. I could go on trying to explain why its logic and fair to give Mike D enough time before evaluating his results, especially since this is his first season and the talent is lacking. But when fans start defending Larry Brown and his stint in NY and keep burying Mike D, you know its just pure hate.




I still feel Larry did a bad job but his environment wasn't even close to what it is now. Now can you admit Pringles is doing a bad job?
Bippity10
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1/12/2009  11:36 AM
mark Jackson 2009.

Will we ever let our coaches grow with us?
I just hope that people will like me
Cosmic
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1/12/2009  11:39 AM
Posted by TMS:

forget about MDA, why can't these players just play hard for their own sense of pride for a change? how many seasons are we gonna keep blaming the coach for not motivating these sorry losers? for God's sakes, D Lee & Nate are both playing for their contracts this season... D Lee gets a pass cuz he's been playing hard all year, what's Nate's excuse? why isn't he doing the same things he was doing earlier in the season when he was making people turn their heads & take notice of his game in a positive fashion? why isn't he creating havoc in the passing lanes & running the break like he was doing earlier in the season? did MDA suddenly tell him to stop doing those things? i seriously doubt it.

'Cause they suck, they're losers and always were, they don't care, and any ounce of desire they have to play is squashed by the 2010 talk. They're getting paid so they just go through the motions. It's almost like they're happy they're 13-23 or whatever it is now because they can use it as a silent excuse to not try hard, why bother we suck and aren't going anywhere anyway, now pay me my guaranteed money.

If they wanted to be they could be not unlike that 2000 Orlando Magic that went .500 under Doc Rivers surprising the entire NBA because "their team is loaded with garbage".

They just don't care that's all. Even David Lee gives up a lot. Nate's the only player that never stops trying but he's mired in a slump of idiocy and chucking so it doesn't even matter that he tries.
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tkf
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1/12/2009  11:42 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by holfresh:

I just watched my Giants lose to Philly in a Playoff game that was absolutely miserable due to the fact they could not execute anything at all...My only thought was the season is over and the Knicks sucks again...I just hate this coach and his seven second offense....The Knicks played defense through-out its history...What the hell is this...The Giants played defense through-out its history and when it didn't, it lost...

I really don't understand how people say this is an exciting way to play...It's great to watch???What is exciting about players chucking the ball from the three point line as quickly as they can???...There is a problem with your team when a guy like Fugazy can help you with your style of play...Guys like Duhon is now celebrated...I watch MSG do a peice on Starks a few days ago which reminded me of what this organization used to be about and I almost cried...We played defense first, we played with passion, every possession mattered, no cheap baskets...Whats not exciting about that style of play???...

We have signed on to J Dolan starphucking in signing this coach...Simmons pointed it out in the only way he can do it... This style of play works during the regular season because we get adept at fast pace basketball and you can't prepare for that for just one game...In the playoffs it's a different story...You all has been hoodwinked by Jimmy Dolan once again and you can't even recognize it...

[Edited by - holfresh on 01-11-2009 4:45 PM]

Its exciting for novice basketball fans who don't understand the nuances and can't appreciate the them or the history of the game. D'Antoni belongs in a small town where the fans aren't nearly as knowledgable as they are supposed to be in NY.

Lets bring back larry brown , he is a great coach that understands the nuances of the game.. I am sure he will do well with this bunch..

oh wait.......

You are like a broken record man.. the sad thing is that there is no plug for us to pull....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
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