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BasketballJones
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I keep seeing posters saying they are upset with this or that player, the coach, the GM, our draft pick, etc. But I wonder: Has this season really turned out that much worse than you expected? Which of the following best describes your thinking?
I'm disappointed in the way things are going this season
It's just another horrible Knick season, which I'm used to
We are rebuilding. 2010 baby!
Who cares about the Knicks? I'm a Raptors fan
Other
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Pharzeone
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1/7/2009  1:40 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by martin:
Posted by djsunyc:

imho, the person that seems to be slacking on their end is d'antoni. i've seen about 6 games this year at varying points of the season. including half of the last 2 games. seems to me that it's the same plays and sit back and hope the shots go in. no back screens, no featuring other players in other parts of the court, nothing. here's the play, run it till you drop b/c you ain't getting another one.

I can see where you are coming from but here is another angle: Coach has a few plays that he practices over and over and which have many options within them (something that MDA's system has purported to have). Is MDA coaching to win a game or coaching to see his team build upon what the system should give them and he is running/calling the same plays over and over to see what his player can adjust and learn?

i think mike has his set plays that you have to run. if you can't, then he has no use for you. that's why he's played such a short roster in pheonix. it's why after he signed marcus banks (since he was the gm at the time of the signing), he was basically benched his entire time there.

i think at this point, the players know the system - they're just not talented enough to execute it. there's a difference between nash running the play than duhon. a difference between harrington in the box than amare. so i think d'antoni should adjust to the personnel but it doesn't seem like he's doing it.

i guess i'll put it this way, i don't think d'antoni can do alot with little. he won't get a team to overachieve. but if you give him the right players, he can be successful. but imho, that doesn't really differentiate him with many other coaches.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 01-07-2009 1:10 PM]

Makes you wonder why the Knicks got D'Antoni. By the time he gets the players he needs to run his systems, the press & the fans will all be calling for his head.

Seems like they coulda just made Herb Williams the coach.

This seems to be now the new prevailing excuse. "he needs to get players that can run his system" This is bunk by the way. What type of players are those? Amare was drafted a year before he was in the Phoenix organization, Marion drafted 4 years before D'Antoni's arrival. Nash and Q Rich were the only guys that the Suns acquired in the 2004 off season. The Knicks already have Q Rich and his numbers don't seem to improve under D'Antoni this season. Are we still missing Nash? I guess my question is where are these D'Antoni players that will run his system. Are they in the league now? Have they been identified in college or high school. Do they exist other than the players that I just mentioned?
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
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Vmart
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1/7/2009  1:50 PM
Who gives a crap about the Knicks. All the current players are here on borrowed time. They don't have to do crap for the Knicks because they know they are not part of the NYK plan. Just do what others have done to the Knicks which is take the money and run.
Bippity10
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1/7/2009  1:53 PM
23 wins
33 wins
23 wins

33 games into the next regime's tenure we already have fans calling them idiots and ready to abandon ship on their "stupid plans". We ran hall of famers out of town so why should Mike be any different? Did anyone really expect us to go from 23 wins to 38-45 wins? What were you expecting. We keep saying that we should beat teams like the Timberwolves and the Thunder etc. Idiots! We are the Timberwolves and the Thunder. The sooner you get that in your head, the sooner you will be at peace with what is going on. No coach is coming in here and winning right away. It's going to take time.

Maybe I was wrong, maybe you can't rebuild in NY.
I just hope that people will like me
djsunyc
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1/7/2009  1:57 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

23 wins
33 wins
23 wins

33 games into the next regime's tenure we already have fans calling them idiots and ready to abandon ship on their "stupid plans". We ran hall of famers out of town so why should Mike be any different? Did anyone really expect us to go from 23 wins to 38-45 wins? What were you expecting. We keep saying that we should beat teams like the Timberwolves and the Thunder etc. Idiots! We are the Timberwolves and the Thunder. The sooner you get that in your head, the sooner you will be at peace with what is going on. No coach is coming in here and winning right away. It's going to take time.

Maybe I was wrong, maybe you can't rebuild in NY.

i guarantee it would be more palatable to knicks fans if gallo was playing. unlike the wolves or thunder (who have lotto picks), the knicks are not trotting out any lotto pick which signifies hope. chandler, lee & nate were not lotto picks so the *hope* moniker isn't attached to them automatically like it would for gallo.
BasketballJones
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1/7/2009  2:02 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

23 wins
33 wins
23 wins

33 games into the next regime's tenure we already have fans calling them idiots and ready to abandon ship on their "stupid plans". We ran hall of famers out of town so why should Mike be any different? Did anyone really expect us to go from 23 wins to 38-45 wins? What were you expecting. We keep saying that we should beat teams like the Timberwolves and the Thunder etc. Idiots! We are the Timberwolves and the Thunder. The sooner you get that in your head, the sooner you will be at peace with what is going on. No coach is coming in here and winning right away. It's going to take time.

Maybe I was wrong, maybe you can't rebuild in NY.

You can. We're just gonna whine and complain about it.

What's going on now is something that had to be done. The team has gone for too long being way over the cap and trading for high priced, flawed players. Is this really worse than seeing Howard Eisly or Moochie Norris in a Knick uniform, or anything we saw during Isiah's tenure?




https:// It's not so hard.
Pharzeone
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1/7/2009  2:03 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bippity10:

23 wins
33 wins
23 wins

33 games into the next regime's tenure we already have fans calling them idiots and ready to abandon ship on their "stupid plans". We ran hall of famers out of town so why should Mike be any different? Did anyone really expect us to go from 23 wins to 38-45 wins? What were you expecting. We keep saying that we should beat teams like the Timberwolves and the Thunder etc. Idiots! We are the Timberwolves and the Thunder. The sooner you get that in your head, the sooner you will be at peace with what is going on. No coach is coming in here and winning right away. It's going to take time.

Maybe I was wrong, maybe you can't rebuild in NY.

i guarantee it would be more palatable to knicks fans if gallo was playing. unlike the wolves or thunder (who have lotto picks), the knicks are not trotting out any lotto pick which signifies hope. chandler, lee & nate were not lotto picks so the *hope* moniker isn't attached to them automatically like it would for gallo.

Combined that with the fact that many fans did not like the pick as you recall the NBA lottery when he was soundly booed. I think it is an accumulation of many factors. Many fans and sport writers were against the hire of the coach as well.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
BasketballJones
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1/7/2009  2:04 PM 

President "Bobby":    Mr. Gardner, do you agree with Ben, or do you think that we can stimulate 
                      growth through temporary incentives?
[Long pause]
Chance the Gardener:  As long as the roots are not severed, all is well. And all will be well in the garden.

President "Bobby":    In the garden.

Chance the Gardener:  Yes. In the garden, growth has it seasons. First comes spring and summer, but 
                      then we have fall and winter. And then we get  spring and summer again.

President "Bobby":    Spring and summer.

Chance the Gardener:  Yes.

President "Bobby":    Then fall and winter.

Chance the Gardener:  Yes.

Benjamin Rand:        I think what our insightful young friend is saying is that we welcome the 
                      inevitable seasons of nature, but we're upset by the seasons of our economy.

Chance the Gardener:  Yes! There will be growth in the spring!

Benjamin Rand:        Hmm!

Chance the Gardener:  Hmm!

President "Bobby":    Hm. Well, Mr. Gardner, I must admit that is one of the most refreshing 
                      and optimistic statements I've heard in a very, very long time.

From "Being There"


[Edited by - basketballjones on 01-07-2009 14:06]
https:// It's not so hard.
Bippity10
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1/7/2009  2:07 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bippity10:

23 wins
33 wins
23 wins

33 games into the next regime's tenure we already have fans calling them idiots and ready to abandon ship on their "stupid plans". We ran hall of famers out of town so why should Mike be any different? Did anyone really expect us to go from 23 wins to 38-45 wins? What were you expecting. We keep saying that we should beat teams like the Timberwolves and the Thunder etc. Idiots! We are the Timberwolves and the Thunder. The sooner you get that in your head, the sooner you will be at peace with what is going on. No coach is coming in here and winning right away. It's going to take time.

Maybe I was wrong, maybe you can't rebuild in NY.

i guarantee it would be more palatable to knicks fans if gallo was playing. unlike the wolves or thunder (who have lotto picks), the knicks are not trotting out any lotto pick which signifies hope. chandler, lee & nate were not lotto picks so the *hope* moniker isn't attached to them automatically like it would for gallo.

Combined that with the fact that many fans did not like the pick as you recall the NBA lottery when he was soundly booed. I think it is an accumulation of many factors. Many fans and sport writers were against the hire of the coach as well.


That's where most of it comes from. We werren't happy with the Dantoni hire so we are attacking his every move. When in reality no coach was winning with this group. NO matter who was hired we had to tear the shiot up.
I just hope that people will like me
Rookie
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1/7/2009  2:08 PM
The sun'll come out
Tomorrow
Bet your bottom dollar
That tomorrow
There'll be sun!
Just thinkin' about
Tomorrow
Clears away the cobwebs,
And the sorrow
'Til there's none!
When I'm stuck a day
That's gray,
And lonely,
I just stick out my chin
And Grin,
And Say,
Oh
The sun'll come out
Tomorrow
So ya gotta hang on
'Til tomorrow
Come what may
Tomorrow!
Tomorrow!
I love ya
Tomorrow!
You're always
A day
A way!
TheGame
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1/7/2009  2:15 PM
I think Walsh has made some good cap friendly moves but got too little in return. We gave the Clippers a starting PF and Collins, who is now their starting PG, for Tim Thomas and cap space essentially (we knew Mobley had a problem and could have voided the deal but went through with it anyway, so we essentially made the deal for Tim Thomas). At the very least, we should have gotten a future pick. Getting a second round pick for Balkman was decent, but we sure could have used him this year. If all we were going to do is get a 2nd round pick, we could have done that at anytime. The Crawford deal was solid. Harrington looks like a more complete player than Crawford and it allows us to trade Lee, since Harrington can play some PF, along with Chandler. Overall, Walsh has done a B job so far. I am giving him a pass on DG for now but if this kid still has a back injury next year, then Walsh's B will turn into a C-. Overall, I am happy we are finally rebuilding.
Trust the Process
BasketballJones
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1/7/2009  2:38 PM
Posted by TheGame:

I think Walsh has made some good cap friendly moves but got too little in return. We gave the Clippers a starting PF and Collins, who is now their starting PG, for Tim Thomas and cap space essentially (we knew Mobley had a problem and could have voided the deal but went through with it anyway, so we essentially made the deal for Tim Thomas). At the very least, we should have gotten a future pick. Getting a second round pick for Balkman was decent, but we sure could have used him this year. If all we were going to do is get a 2nd round pick, we could have done that at anytime. The Crawford deal was solid. Harrington looks like a more complete player than Crawford and it allows us to trade Lee, since Harrington can play some PF, along with Chandler. Overall, Walsh has done a B job so far. I am giving him a pass on DG for now but if this kid still has a back injury next year, then Walsh's B will turn into a C-. Overall, I am happy we are finally rebuilding.

Really? Collins is the Clips starting pg?
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BasketballJones
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1/7/2009  2:42 PM
OIC -- because of injuries:
Jones was forced into starting at point guard for the backup point guard, Jason Hart, who couldn't play because of right elbow tendinitis.
The Clippers had hoped Hart could start for the starting point guard, Baron Davis, who is out because of a bruised tailbone.

That left Mardy Collins to be the point guard after Jones limped to the training room with trainer Jasen Powell.



[Edited by - basketballjones on 01-07-2009 14:43]
https:// It's not so hard.
Bippity10
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1/7/2009  2:45 PM
Posted by TheGame:

I think Walsh has made some good cap friendly moves but got too little in return. We gave the Clippers a starting PF and Collins, who is now their starting PG, for Tim Thomas and cap space essentially (we knew Mobley had a problem and could have voided the deal but went through with it anyway, so we essentially made the deal for Tim Thomas). At the very least, we should have gotten a future pick. Getting a second round pick for Balkman was decent, but we sure could have used him this year. If all we were going to do is get a 2nd round pick, we could have done that at anytime. The Crawford deal was solid. Harrington looks like a more complete player than Crawford and it allows us to trade Lee, since Harrington can play some PF, along with Chandler. Overall, Walsh has done a B job so far. I am giving him a pass on DG for now but if this kid still has a back injury next year, then Walsh's B will turn into a C-. Overall, I am happy we are finally rebuilding.

I think that's fair. Maybe he couldn't have gotten a pick out of it maybe not. I'm betting that he went all in and tried to get as much as eh could, but bottom line he just wanted the cap space. I agree about the current grade. Not a lot of action, but so far what he has done has generally moved us forward or fit in their stated plan. The only puzzling one was Balkman, but that was so inconsequential that it doesn't bother me. For me, the first chink in the armor will be Gallo. He's hurt, give him time to recover and develop. We will now by next year if this pick at least has some potential. I'm with you though, the games are frustrating and painful, but when I look at the big picture it really doesn't matter.
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Pharzeone
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1/7/2009  3:08 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bippity10:

23 wins
33 wins
23 wins

33 games into the next regime's tenure we already have fans calling them idiots and ready to abandon ship on their "stupid plans". We ran hall of famers out of town so why should Mike be any different? Did anyone really expect us to go from 23 wins to 38-45 wins? What were you expecting. We keep saying that we should beat teams like the Timberwolves and the Thunder etc. Idiots! We are the Timberwolves and the Thunder. The sooner you get that in your head, the sooner you will be at peace with what is going on. No coach is coming in here and winning right away. It's going to take time.

Maybe I was wrong, maybe you can't rebuild in NY.

i guarantee it would be more palatable to knicks fans if gallo was playing. unlike the wolves or thunder (who have lotto picks), the knicks are not trotting out any lotto pick which signifies hope. chandler, lee & nate were not lotto picks so the *hope* moniker isn't attached to them automatically like it would for gallo.

Combined that with the fact that many fans did not like the pick as you recall the NBA lottery when he was soundly booed. I think it is an accumulation of many factors. Many fans and sport writers were against the hire of the coach as well.


That's where most of it comes from. We werren't happy with the Dantoni hire so we are attacking his every move. When in reality no coach was winning with this group. NO matter who was hired we had to tear the shiot up.

Yeah but he is getting paid the big bucks. I think he is now the highest paid coach in the league so he doesn't get to use excuses that say a Mark Jackson would be able to use. That is a way of life. The same go for players as well. Once you get top money expectations take on another level.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
martin
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1/7/2009  3:25 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bippity10:

23 wins
33 wins
23 wins

33 games into the next regime's tenure we already have fans calling them idiots and ready to abandon ship on their "stupid plans". We ran hall of famers out of town so why should Mike be any different? Did anyone really expect us to go from 23 wins to 38-45 wins? What were you expecting. We keep saying that we should beat teams like the Timberwolves and the Thunder etc. Idiots! We are the Timberwolves and the Thunder. The sooner you get that in your head, the sooner you will be at peace with what is going on. No coach is coming in here and winning right away. It's going to take time.

Maybe I was wrong, maybe you can't rebuild in NY.

i guarantee it would be more palatable to knicks fans if gallo was playing. unlike the wolves or thunder (who have lotto picks), the knicks are not trotting out any lotto pick which signifies hope. chandler, lee & nate were not lotto picks so the *hope* moniker isn't attached to them automatically like it would for gallo.

Combined that with the fact that many fans did not like the pick as you recall the NBA lottery when he was soundly booed. I think it is an accumulation of many factors. Many fans and sport writers were against the hire of the coach as well.


That's where most of it comes from. We werren't happy with the Dantoni hire so we are attacking his every move. When in reality no coach was winning with this group. NO matter who was hired we had to tear the shiot up.

Yeah but he is getting paid the big bucks. I think he is now the highest paid coach in the league so he doesn't get to use excuses that say a Mark Jackson would be able to use. That is a way of life. The same go for players as well. Once you get top money expectations take on another level.

that kind of logic don't work. If you hire a hot-shot CEO for a company that is failing and pay him big bucks do you expect a very quick turn-around because you are paying him big bucks? No. Depending how deep the doo-doo is, you gotta be patient.
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Bippity10
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1/7/2009  3:35 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by Bippity10:

23 wins
33 wins
23 wins

33 games into the next regime's tenure we already have fans calling them idiots and ready to abandon ship on their "stupid plans". We ran hall of famers out of town so why should Mike be any different? Did anyone really expect us to go from 23 wins to 38-45 wins? What were you expecting. We keep saying that we should beat teams like the Timberwolves and the Thunder etc. Idiots! We are the Timberwolves and the Thunder. The sooner you get that in your head, the sooner you will be at peace with what is going on. No coach is coming in here and winning right away. It's going to take time.

Maybe I was wrong, maybe you can't rebuild in NY.

i guarantee it would be more palatable to knicks fans if gallo was playing. unlike the wolves or thunder (who have lotto picks), the knicks are not trotting out any lotto pick which signifies hope. chandler, lee & nate were not lotto picks so the *hope* moniker isn't attached to them automatically like it would for gallo.

Combined that with the fact that many fans did not like the pick as you recall the NBA lottery when he was soundly booed. I think it is an accumulation of many factors. Many fans and sport writers were against the hire of the coach as well.


That's where most of it comes from. We werren't happy with the Dantoni hire so we are attacking his every move. When in reality no coach was winning with this group. NO matter who was hired we had to tear the shiot up.

Yeah but he is getting paid the big bucks. I think he is now the highest paid coach in the league so he doesn't get to use excuses that say a Mark Jackson would be able to use. That is a way of life. The same go for players as well. Once you get top money expectations take on another level.

that kind of logic don't work. If you hire a hot-shot CEO for a company that is failing and pay him big bucks do you expect a very quick turn-around because you are paying him big bucks? No. Depending how deep the doo-doo is, you gotta be patient.

Great example.

These two were not brought in here to get every last ounce out of a veteran roster that just needs a bump from a coach to put them over the hump(ala LB in Detroit). D'Antoni and Walsh were brought in to turn around a franchise that had become a laughinstock of every nightly tv show. An embarrassment. Possibly the worst run organization in sports history(at least in the argument). Nobody was turning it around in short order. Some of us just got our hopes up. In Ny we seem to think that there are magic coaches out there that can turn a team around like they did in Hoosiers.
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Bippity10
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1/7/2009  3:44 PM
This reminds me of the LB is going to turn us into Phoenix East days on this board(ironic that Phoenix turned it around with the coach we now hatte). I was vilified for not thinking that LB could turn us around overnight. I warned and warned. I barked and barked. I pointed at the well. I said LB would not win here until we destroyed that roster. It was obvious. No great analysis on my part. Now 3 years later, not only is the roster just as disjointed, but some of the guys have had 3 more years developing habits under the tutelage of such veterans as Stephon Marbury, Eddie Curry and Steve Francis.

I warned you that saying it was okay to quit on a coach because you don't like him was going to haunt these players for ever. Here we are 3 years later and our players are still talking about learning how to "bring it" all the time.

Now the process of eliminating the habits begins. You first hire a GM/coach that are on the same page. You then evaluate the players. You then rid yourself of those players that either don't fit or can't change their habits. You keep the one's that do. Then you bring in veteran leaders who play hard every nght that can eliminate all bad habits(Kedrick Perkins will never take a night off the rest of his life). Hopefully in that tim eyou bring in a star to finalize the deal.

In the meantime, YOU AIN'T WINNING. Bip is telling you, but for some reason you aren't listening.
I just hope that people will like me
BasketballJones
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1/7/2009  3:57 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

This reminds me of the LB is going to turn us into Phoenix East days on this board(ironic that Phoenix turned it around with the coach we now hatte). I was vilified for not thinking that LB could turn us around overnight. I warned and warned. I barked and barked. I pointed at the well. I said LB would not win here until we destroyed that roster. It was obvious. No great analysis on my part. Now 3 years later, not only is the roster just as disjointed, but some of the guys have had 3 more years developing habits under the tutelage of such veterans as Stephon Marbury, Eddie Curry and Steve Francis.

I warned you that saying it was okay to quit on a coach because you don't like him was going to haunt these players for ever. Here we are 3 years later and our players are still talking about learning how to "bring it" all the time.

Now the process of eliminating the habits begins. You first hire a GM/coach that are on the same page. You then evaluate the players. You then rid yourself of those players that either don't fit or can't change their habits. You keep the one's that do. Then you bring in veteran leaders who play hard every nght that can eliminate all bad habits(Kedrick Perkins will never take a night off the rest of his life). Hopefully in that tim eyou bring in a star to finalize the deal.

In the meantime, YOU AIN'T WINNING. Bip is telling you, but for some reason you aren't listening.

You do like to preach at us, don't you.
https:// It's not so hard.
Bippity10
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1/7/2009  4:06 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by Bippity10:

This reminds me of the LB is going to turn us into Phoenix East days on this board(ironic that Phoenix turned it around with the coach we now hatte). I was vilified for not thinking that LB could turn us around overnight. I warned and warned. I barked and barked. I pointed at the well. I said LB would not win here until we destroyed that roster. It was obvious. No great analysis on my part. Now 3 years later, not only is the roster just as disjointed, but some of the guys have had 3 more years developing habits under the tutelage of such veterans as Stephon Marbury, Eddie Curry and Steve Francis.

I warned you that saying it was okay to quit on a coach because you don't like him was going to haunt these players for ever. Here we are 3 years later and our players are still talking about learning how to "bring it" all the time.

Now the process of eliminating the habits begins. You first hire a GM/coach that are on the same page. You then evaluate the players. You then rid yourself of those players that either don't fit or can't change their habits. You keep the one's that do. Then you bring in veteran leaders who play hard every nght that can eliminate all bad habits(Kedrick Perkins will never take a night off the rest of his life). Hopefully in that tim eyou bring in a star to finalize the deal.

In the meantime, YOU AIN'T WINNING. Bip is telling you, but for some reason you aren't listening.

You do like to preach at us, don't you.

i do enjoy it actually
I just hope that people will like me
Bippity10
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1/7/2009  4:07 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by Bippity10:

This reminds me of the LB is going to turn us into Phoenix East days on this board(ironic that Phoenix turned it around with the coach we now hatte). I was vilified for not thinking that LB could turn us around overnight. I warned and warned. I barked and barked. I pointed at the well. I said LB would not win here until we destroyed that roster. It was obvious. No great analysis on my part. Now 3 years later, not only is the roster just as disjointed, but some of the guys have had 3 more years developing habits under the tutelage of such veterans as Stephon Marbury, Eddie Curry and Steve Francis.

I warned you that saying it was okay to quit on a coach because you don't like him was going to haunt these players for ever. Here we are 3 years later and our players are still talking about learning how to "bring it" all the time.

Now the process of eliminating the habits begins. You first hire a GM/coach that are on the same page. You then evaluate the players. You then rid yourself of those players that either don't fit or can't change their habits. You keep the one's that do. Then you bring in veteran leaders who play hard every nght that can eliminate all bad habits(Kedrick Perkins will never take a night off the rest of his life). Hopefully in that tim eyou bring in a star to finalize the deal.

In the meantime, YOU AIN'T WINNING. Bip is telling you, but for some reason you aren't listening.

You do like to preach at us, don't you.

i do enjoy it actually

Once again, I'm trying to warn you!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just hope that people will like me
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