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David Lee-the way he is playing
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nyballer
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1/3/2009  2:54 PM
Everyone who talks about lee commanding 10-14MM a year, keep in mind any team with cap space next year to offer him money will probably want to save up for 2010 as well.. we aren't the only team looking forward to that 2010 free agency class and lebron isn't the only guy that's available. joe johnson, dirk, josh howard, tmac, yao, redd, manu etc, these guys aren't in the lebron/wade/bosh/amare level but a lot of teams would take them over lee. I have a feeling that lee will sign for around 8MM a year either here if we resign him or elsewhere.
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Bonn1997
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1/3/2009  3:05 PM
Posted by nyballer:

Everyone who talks about lee commanding 10-14MM a year, keep in mind any team with cap space next year to offer him money will probably want to save up for 2010 as well.. we aren't the only team looking forward to that 2010 free agency class and lebron isn't the only guy that's available. joe johnson, dirk, josh howard, tmac, yao, redd, manu etc, these guys aren't in the lebron/wade/bosh/amare level but a lot of teams would take them over lee. I have a feeling that lee will sign for around 8MM a year either here if we resign him or elsewhere.

+1
s3231
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1/3/2009  3:46 PM
I think it is silly to keep pointing out what Lee does wrong when he does so many things right (as King pointed out).

He will probably never be the lockdown defender that many of you want him to be. However, he rebounds very well, has a pretty good low post game, and shows a much improved jump shot. Most importantly, he continues to show the work ethic and desire to become a better basketball player.

Defensively, his post defense is actually decent and it seems like he has improved in that area (at least to me). It is probably difficult to see that because he is being asked to guard guys much bigger than he is on a nightly basis. The area I think he has to improve in is help defense. is a very good coach but I don't think he spends too much time on defensive rotations. I agree with DJ here and I think that area (i.e. help defense) falls under the coach.

Thats not to say that Lee has an excuse though. I'm sure he knows he has to improve in some areas and at least he has shown the work ethic it takes to do that.


"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
King1
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1/3/2009  3:52 PM
Lee averaged a double-double his second year in the league and he has always shot over 55% percent whoever the coach is. He is getting more minutes and putting up 10 shots instead of 6 a game. If MDA system puts stats out of whack what would these guys do in another sentence would Wilson shoot 19% from the three?
NYKBocker
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1/3/2009  3:56 PM
DLee is a very good player with a chance to become an All-Star. Like players who are not All-World, DLee has some warts. He needs a defensive minded front court man to protect his back.

I like him and he should be signed long term. His work ethic and skill set is something you don't give away.
Cosmic
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1/3/2009  3:56 PM
Posted by s3231:

I think it is silly to keep pointing out what Lee does wrong when he does so many things right (as King pointed out).

We know what he does right. What he does right is going to get him a huge contract. The concern is whether or not he is worth that contract. That's when you look at his faults and compare them to his strengths to determine whether or not he's worth a big contract. A big contract solidifies him as a starter and a building block. Given his faults can he be considered a starter and a building block on a winning team?

To figure that out you have to look at his faults.

If all we ever did was praise what our players did right then there's nothing to discuss and we might as well shut down every message board.

Some people get a little too upset and take things a little too personal when someone discusses the faults of a player on the team. I never understood that and never will.

Before I'd be inclined to lock up David Lee not just long term but to a contract that guarantees him as a vital piece to building a winner the last thing I'd do is simply praise his strengths and ignore his weaknesses.

That's something Isiah Thomas always did and you see where that got us, right?

Not that anything anyone on this forum says has any bearing on what Walsh is going to do but we discuss it like it does anyway.
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King1
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1/3/2009  3:59 PM
Lee will get ten if Boozer get 15 or 16 then Lee will get ten. He is getting 16 and 12 since the trade. 18 out of 20 games double-double and he is scoring against big time players. How can anyone tell me he doesnt deserve what Biedrins is getting. If Lee was selfish and shot the ball like everyone else on this team he would average 20-10 and shoot 45% from the field. Instead he plays within himself get 15 and 11 a game and shoots 56%. Someone will overpay him that is why Walsh should have locked him up this year.
Cosmic
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1/3/2009  4:02 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by nyballer:

Everyone who talks about lee commanding 10-14MM a year, keep in mind any team with cap space next year to offer him money will probably want to save up for 2010 as well.. we aren't the only team looking forward to that 2010 free agency class and lebron isn't the only guy that's available. joe johnson, dirk, josh howard, tmac, yao, redd, manu etc, these guys aren't in the lebron/wade/bosh/amare level but a lot of teams would take them over lee. I have a feeling that lee will sign for around 8MM a year either here if we resign him or elsewhere.

+1

And as I said that leaves us....

We essentially have to bank on other teams being unwilling or unable to offer him more than 7M a year so we can get him for 8M a year.

No competent GM goes into an off season expecting things to turn out that way. You give yourself options and Walsh will clearly do that. If the option he chooses is to move Lee rather than either lose out on him or have to over pay he will do that and we're just going to have to live with it. If he does I just hope he gets back a pick or at least sends out some more 2011s at the same time.

Yet, it would be foolish to just assume nobody wants to spend money on Lee so we'll just let it go to the end and then lowball him and he'll have to take it. That's when teams either lose players for nothing or end up grossly overpaying to keep them.
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Queeniepop
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1/3/2009  4:04 PM
Posted by King1:

Everyone talks about what Lee cant do. He is playing the five he should be a four. Since the trade the perimeter players are the ones going crazy. Melo, Jack, Gerald Wallace to name a few. How many centers have just killed Lee in the last twenty games? WHo leads the teams in steals the last twenty games? Who is top 6 in the league in rebounding? No one on this team can defend if you put Lee with a Bosh they would be a top frontcourt in the league. No doubt Lee has to improve on defense but his isnt any worse than Duhon and Robinson and Harrington.

HOW MANY GAMES HAVE THE KNICKS WON IN LAST TWENTY GAMES?

How many games have the Knicks won since the trades?

How many points/rebounds increased for Lee since Zach got traded?

How many roads must a man walk down before we can call him a man? (The answers my friend is blowin' in the wind)
Queeniepop
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1/3/2009  4:06 PM
Posted by King1:

Lee will get ten if Boozer get 15 or 16 then Lee will get ten. He is getting 16 and 12 since the trade. 18 out of 20 games double-double and he is scoring against big time players. How can anyone tell me he doesnt deserve what Biedrins is getting. If Lee was selfish and shot the ball like everyone else on this team he would average 20-10 and shoot 45% from the field. Instead he plays within himself get 15 and 11 a game and shoots 56%. Someone will overpay him that is why Walsh should have locked him up this year.

When you can actually say something a slight bit negative about David Lee and tone down your grandstanding, maybe people will stop questioning. Nothing is EVER david's fault! When/if he gets moved or gets paid, are you going to still come to this board or will you be going to "Ultimatenuggets.com"
Elite
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1/3/2009  4:07 PM
I think Lee will eventually develop into a better defender because he has improved every other aspect every year... He could be a decent 4man defender if he put his mind to it... He just needs to put his damn hands up more often and use his fouls more wiseley... Also be smarter with switching
King1
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1/3/2009  4:07 PM
I agree Queenie I think Lee and Duhon are the only guys that can play in the system.
Queeniepop
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1/3/2009  4:09 PM
Posted by King1:

I agree Queenie I think Lee and Duhon are the only guys that can play in the system.

I think when the right players com here, Lee and Duhon will be the "super bench" if not gone.

One thing I do agree with you on is that Nate aint so great nows-a-days.
King1
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1/3/2009  4:11 PM
I have said many of times his defense has to improve. What I get tired of is everyone trying to replace him, trade him when he does the right things. I think Lee get more negative publicity than anyone anymore. No one talks about Nate stinking the floor up, no one talks about Wilson and he cant shoot the ball. This team is selfish and I dont think David is so I will stand up for him.
King1
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1/3/2009  4:12 PM
I agree elite I think late inthe game he needs to hack people and if we had a backup we could do that. I think it is unfair for us to play with the team we have when Walsh has options and wont do anything about it
Queeniepop
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1/3/2009  4:14 PM
Fair enough. I used to defend Jamal Crawford (who seemed to be very buddy-buddy with Lee) but he is gone so I understand how you feel.

The issue with Lee IMHO is to trade or not to trade or to match? Dilly of a pickle eh?

TRADE = get something OF VALUE back
NO TRADE and WALK = nada back
MATCH = over pay

Interestingly, Milsap will be a good barometer.
King1
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1/3/2009  4:17 PM
I think Utah will let Boozer walk and pay Millsap a lot of money. I really think Portland would be a good fit for Lee that gives them three inside guys and protection if Alderidge walks. All I saying you could have saved alot of money and signed Lee before the year. Now your talking about getting fleeced in a trade.
Bonn1997
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1/3/2009  4:52 PM
Posted by King1:

Lee averaged a double-double his second year in the league and he has always shot over 55% percent whoever the coach is. He is getting more minutes and putting up 10 shots instead of 6 a game. If MDA system puts stats out of whack what would these guys do in another sentence would Wilson shoot 19% from the three?
19%?
s3231
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1/3/2009  4:59 PM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by s3231:

I think it is silly to keep pointing out what Lee does wrong when he does so many things right (as King pointed out).

We know what he does right. What he does right is going to get him a huge contract. The concern is whether or not he is worth that contract. That's when you look at his faults and compare them to his strengths to determine whether or not he's worth a big contract. A big contract solidifies him as a starter and a building block. Given his faults can he be considered a starter and a building block on a winning team?

I'm not saying that you don't look at his weaknesses when deciding on how much money to give him. However, I think it is ridiculous to say that we shouldn't resign Lee if it costs us more than $6 million a season. I'm not saying that we should max him out but I don't see the logic in letting a player like Lee walk for nothing.

The point I was making is that David does so many things right and has shown a great work ethic. I don't see why you would just let him walk because he has faults. Guess what? Pretty much every player in the NBA has a weakness or area that they can improve in.

We're not talking about a 29 year old veteran here, we're talking about a 25 year old PF/C who has been highly productive while also showing the ability to improve his game.


[Edited by - s3231 on 01-03-2009 5:03 PM]
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
arkrud
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1/3/2009  5:51 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

He gets routinely murdered on the other side of the ball. His jump shot appears once in five games. His stats will earn him at least 10M starting salary probably MORE! Unless you're putting Shaq or Duncan in their primes alongside him your chances of going deep into the playoffs are a serious question mark. If you sign him, you do not get 2 max FAs in 2010 nor 1 in 2010 and 1 in 2011.

So what you're saying is you consider Lee to be almost worth one of those potential signings.

So then what do we end up with?

Diaw
Lee
LeBron
Nate
Duhon

????

Or

Bosh
Lee
Chandler
Nate
Duhon

???????????

Or

Amare
Lee
Chandler
Nate
Duhon

????

Or

Diaw
Lee
Chandler
Wade
Duhon

??????????????

Something like that?
These teams going anywhere? No, they're not.

Re-signing Lee is a feel good thing and if it comes at more than a 6M a year price we're screwing ourselves right back into guaranteed mediocrity.

Better hope Gallo turns into Dirk and the 09 draft pick turns into a star as well otherwise re-signing Lee will guarantee our downfall.

Diaw
Lee
LeBron
Nate
Duhon

???? ... You put Duhon, Lebron, and Lee on the same NY team... and half of the good centers and guards of this league will try to force trade to NY. Can you imagine how many points/assists/rebounds this trio will produce?... crazzzy



"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
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David Lee-the way he is playing
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