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how' is d'antoni's player development?
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BlueSeats
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12/29/2008  12:14 PM
Posted by islesfan:


Who's killing D'Antoni for not winning? I haven't seen that at all. I, for one, am killing him for not doing the only thing he should be doing over the next 2 seasons, which is teaching fundamentals and coaching defense and his system. Over a quarter of the season has passed and there's no evidence of any of that. That's inexcusable.

I don't think that's entirely fair. D is just one side of the floor. Sharing the ball and finding the open man rather than forcing and chucking is equally important, and I think he's made quite a bit of progress on both. It's clearly coming unraveled in the past couple of weeks, but there have been stretches where the Knicks played way over their heads - on both sides of the floor. Remember when our steals were way up? It wasn't too long ago that the playoffs were looking like a distinct reality, and this is NOT a playoff roster.
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djsunyc
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12/29/2008  12:19 PM
i guess what i'm asking is whether you guys are seeing signs in some players that they are becoming better (or more complete). if so, then that means some of them could stay aboard in a few years. but if not, then these guys are total stop gaps and d'antoni needs his own players to make it work.
BasketballJones
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12/29/2008  12:21 PM
Posted by djsunyc:

i guess what i'm asking is whether you guys are seeing signs in some players that they are becoming better (or more complete). if so, then that means some of them could stay aboard in a few years. but if not, then these guys are total stop gaps and d'antoni needs his own players to make it work.

Why can't you just watch the games and develop your own opinion? Sheesh.
https:// It's not so hard.
djsunyc
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12/29/2008  12:25 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by djsunyc:

i guess what i'm asking is whether you guys are seeing signs in some players that they are becoming better (or more complete). if so, then that means some of them could stay aboard in a few years. but if not, then these guys are total stop gaps and d'antoni needs his own players to make it work.

Why can't you just watch the games and develop your own opinion? Sheesh.

i didn't really read your response. can someone tell me what basketballjones is trying to tell me?
martin
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12/29/2008  12:52 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by djsunyc:

i guess what i'm asking is whether you guys are seeing signs in some players that they are becoming better (or more complete). if so, then that means some of them could stay aboard in a few years. but if not, then these guys are total stop gaps and d'antoni needs his own players to make it work.

Why can't you just watch the games and develop your own opinion? Sheesh.

i didn't really read your response. can someone tell me what basketballjones is trying to tell me?

he called you a douchebag
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Bippity10
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12/29/2008  1:12 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bippity10:

Listen, you need someone to build around. You can't just slap talent(mediocre talent if you are talking about the Knicks) and expect it to mesh into a contender. You need to find a legitimate talent(whether that's done through draft, trade or free agency is irrelevant) and then build a team around that person or persons that compliments their skills. In the meantime all the rest is just a pipedream. This is why we need to clear cap space and target draft picks.

I do think that if the psychological side of things doesn't zap us again, that we will get better as the season goes on. We as fans should not be excited/depressed by the amount of wins, but by the season long development of a few players that we may be able to use to build around any future stars we bring in. Who knows, maybe Gallo or Chandler develops into one of those key cogs. I'm excited about those two. As for the rest of them, they are what they are. Players that are being evaluated and not a definite piece of a future core. Remember we won 23, 33 and 23 games the past 3 years. We brought in a new coach, a new system, 1 guy that can't hit a shot, a rookie that's injured, 2 guys not intended to be here in 2 years, and a PG that is still young and developing but is also possibly not here in 2 years. As for those that remain from a 23 win team, we have one in exile, one fat, hurt and lazy and many others who helped to contribute to the fiasco of the last three years. My question is, what did you expect???????

Some of us killed Isiah for bringing in this crappy roster. Killed him for 3 years. Then he is fired and we can't beleive that the new guy can't win with the same roster that we killed Isiah for? I don't get it.

Who's killing D'Antoni for not winning? I haven't seen that at all. I, for one, am killing him for not doing the only thing he should be doing over the next 2 seasons, which is teaching fundamentals and coaching defense and his system. Over a quarter of the season has passed and there's no evidence of any of that. That's inexcusable.

Listen you narcissist. I never mentioned you. But yes, without a doubt the gloves are coming off and there are fans going after the guy for every reason under the sun. You can see it on this site, you can see it in response to blogs. It's there, and with each loss the caucaphony of lunacy will get louder.

As for the defense, yes we know you are in I told you so mode. I've been in that mode so I do not poo poo I told you so's. But this is definitely a chicken before the egg situation. Before the season started you said that D'Antoni would not teach this team defense. You were right, they have not learned defense. Before the season I said that no matter who was brought in to coach this team would never learn defense. So far I am right as well. This is the NBA, not college. Until you bring in leadership on the court, that plays both ends you are never going to see a Nate, David etc transformation. Why keep looking for it? This is why GM's clean out 23 win teams because they know that there are no magical coaches.

Islesfan is not a narcissist.

If you're saying that I'm the Chicken and you're the Egg and the Situation is getting to 10,000 posts first, then yes you are correct, the Chicken comes before the Egg.

If you can't expect the coach to be able to teach and coach the players until 2010, when they acquire some good players, then what was the hurry in hiring D'Antoni?

Was there a hurry, or was this the guy that Walsh wanted?
I just hope that people will like me
Elite
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12/29/2008  1:16 PM
i believe its actually the job of the assistant coaches to develop young players not the head coach.. even tho im sure he has a role, the assistants are hands on in that department
Bippity10
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12/29/2008  1:19 PM
What you guys are seeing is players falling back on their bad habits. Nate is in year 4. DLee is in year 4. They have shown progress but generally make the same mistakes they made 4 years ago. Is this D'Antoni's fault. Or is this 4 years of learning bad habits?

They had a new coach come in. They had some success. Bip about a month ago said(in response to one of Nixluva's posts about how great of a coaching job he's done) that this is where the real coaching comes in. The players had lost there juice card. They had to listen to everything coach said. Now that initial rush has worn off. Now the players(as they always do) are falling back upon their habits of the past. Keeping those habits from infecting the new guys like Wilson and Gallinari is hard enough, but ridding the plaeyrs of it, is dam-n near impossible. Add in the injuries, the excess minutes, the trade and we were bound to crash at some point. Like I said a month ago, this is where the real coaching starts. Who cares about the record. Who cares about the lost fundamentals. The key is how many guys can carry forward a change in culture. Those that can't, will be traded or shunned. Walsh has already proven this. Going forward it will not be different. This team will be gutted. The year of "it's okay to quit" is still infecting us.
I just hope that people will like me
BasketballJones
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12/29/2008  1:21 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

What you guys are seeing is players falling back on their bad habits. Nate is in year 4. DLee is in year 4. They have shown progress but generally make the same mistakes they made 4 years ago. Is this D'Antoni's fault. Or is this 4 years of learning bad habits?

They had a new coach come in. They had some success. Bip about a month ago said(in response to one of Nixluva's posts about how great of a coaching job he's done) that this is where the real coaching comes in. The players had lost there juice card. They had to listen to everything coach said. Now that initial rush has worn off. Now the players(as they always do) are falling back upon their habits of the past. Keeping those habits from infecting the new guys like Wilson and Gallinari is hard enough, but ridding the plaeyrs of it, is dam-n near impossible. Add in the injuries, the excess minutes, the trade and we were bound to crash at some point. Like I said a month ago, this is where the real coaching starts. Who cares about the record. Who cares about the lost fundamentals. The key is how many guys can carry forward a change in culture. Those that can't, will be traded or shunned. Walsh has already proven this. Going forward it will not be different. This team will be gutted. The year of "it's okay to quit" is still infecting us.

Gibberish. What D'Antoni needs to do is coach effort. That's the secret of great NBA coaching.

https:// It's not so hard.
islesfan
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12/29/2008  1:23 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bippity10:

Listen, you need someone to build around. You can't just slap talent(mediocre talent if you are talking about the Knicks) and expect it to mesh into a contender. You need to find a legitimate talent(whether that's done through draft, trade or free agency is irrelevant) and then build a team around that person or persons that compliments their skills. In the meantime all the rest is just a pipedream. This is why we need to clear cap space and target draft picks.

I do think that if the psychological side of things doesn't zap us again, that we will get better as the season goes on. We as fans should not be excited/depressed by the amount of wins, but by the season long development of a few players that we may be able to use to build around any future stars we bring in. Who knows, maybe Gallo or Chandler develops into one of those key cogs. I'm excited about those two. As for the rest of them, they are what they are. Players that are being evaluated and not a definite piece of a future core. Remember we won 23, 33 and 23 games the past 3 years. We brought in a new coach, a new system, 1 guy that can't hit a shot, a rookie that's injured, 2 guys not intended to be here in 2 years, and a PG that is still young and developing but is also possibly not here in 2 years. As for those that remain from a 23 win team, we have one in exile, one fat, hurt and lazy and many others who helped to contribute to the fiasco of the last three years. My question is, what did you expect???????

Some of us killed Isiah for bringing in this crappy roster. Killed him for 3 years. Then he is fired and we can't beleive that the new guy can't win with the same roster that we killed Isiah for? I don't get it.

Who's killing D'Antoni for not winning? I haven't seen that at all. I, for one, am killing him for not doing the only thing he should be doing over the next 2 seasons, which is teaching fundamentals and coaching defense and his system. Over a quarter of the season has passed and there's no evidence of any of that. That's inexcusable.

Listen you narcissist. I never mentioned you. But yes, without a doubt the gloves are coming off and there are fans going after the guy for every reason under the sun. You can see it on this site, you can see it in response to blogs. It's there, and with each loss the caucaphony of lunacy will get louder.

As for the defense, yes we know you are in I told you so mode. I've been in that mode so I do not poo poo I told you so's. But this is definitely a chicken before the egg situation. Before the season started you said that D'Antoni would not teach this team defense. You were right, they have not learned defense. Before the season I said that no matter who was brought in to coach this team would never learn defense. So far I am right as well. This is the NBA, not college. Until you bring in leadership on the court, that plays both ends you are never going to see a Nate, David etc transformation. Why keep looking for it? This is why GM's clean out 23 win teams because they know that there are no magical coaches.

Islesfan is not a narcissist.

If you're saying that I'm the Chicken and you're the Egg and the Situation is getting to 10,000 posts first, then yes you are correct, the Chicken comes before the Egg.

If you can't expect the coach to be able to teach and coach the players until 2010, when they acquire some good players, then what was the hurry in hiring D'Antoni?

Was there a hurry, or was this the guy that Walsh wanted?

If it was, then it was a pretty myopic decision on Walsh's part, knowing that the team won't be put together for another 2 years.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
islesfan
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12/29/2008  1:26 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

What you guys are seeing is players falling back on their bad habits. Nate is in year 4. DLee is in year 4. They have shown progress but generally make the same mistakes they made 4 years ago. Is this D'Antoni's fault. Or is this 4 years of learning bad habits?

They had a new coach come in. They had some success. Bip about a month ago said(in response to one of Nixluva's posts about how great of a coaching job he's done) that this is where the real coaching comes in. The players had lost there juice card. They had to listen to everything coach said. Now that initial rush has worn off. Now the players(as they always do) are falling back upon their habits of the past. Keeping those habits from infecting the new guys like Wilson and Gallinari is hard enough, but ridding the plaeyrs of it, is dam-n near impossible. Add in the injuries, the excess minutes, the trade and we were bound to crash at some point. Like I said a month ago, this is where the real coaching starts. Who cares about the record. Who cares about the lost fundamentals. The key is how many guys can carry forward a change in culture. Those that can't, will be traded or shunned. Walsh has already proven this. Going forward it will not be different. This team will be gutted. The year of "it's okay to quit" is still infecting us.

That's a copout. How long does D'Antoni get to use that crutch?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Bippity10
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12/29/2008  1:28 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bippity10:

Listen, you need someone to build around. You can't just slap talent(mediocre talent if you are talking about the Knicks) and expect it to mesh into a contender. You need to find a legitimate talent(whether that's done through draft, trade or free agency is irrelevant) and then build a team around that person or persons that compliments their skills. In the meantime all the rest is just a pipedream. This is why we need to clear cap space and target draft picks.

I do think that if the psychological side of things doesn't zap us again, that we will get better as the season goes on. We as fans should not be excited/depressed by the amount of wins, but by the season long development of a few players that we may be able to use to build around any future stars we bring in. Who knows, maybe Gallo or Chandler develops into one of those key cogs. I'm excited about those two. As for the rest of them, they are what they are. Players that are being evaluated and not a definite piece of a future core. Remember we won 23, 33 and 23 games the past 3 years. We brought in a new coach, a new system, 1 guy that can't hit a shot, a rookie that's injured, 2 guys not intended to be here in 2 years, and a PG that is still young and developing but is also possibly not here in 2 years. As for those that remain from a 23 win team, we have one in exile, one fat, hurt and lazy and many others who helped to contribute to the fiasco of the last three years. My question is, what did you expect???????

Some of us killed Isiah for bringing in this crappy roster. Killed him for 3 years. Then he is fired and we can't beleive that the new guy can't win with the same roster that we killed Isiah for? I don't get it.

Who's killing D'Antoni for not winning? I haven't seen that at all. I, for one, am killing him for not doing the only thing he should be doing over the next 2 seasons, which is teaching fundamentals and coaching defense and his system. Over a quarter of the season has passed and there's no evidence of any of that. That's inexcusable.

Listen you narcissist. I never mentioned you. But yes, without a doubt the gloves are coming off and there are fans going after the guy for every reason under the sun. You can see it on this site, you can see it in response to blogs. It's there, and with each loss the caucaphony of lunacy will get louder.

As for the defense, yes we know you are in I told you so mode. I've been in that mode so I do not poo poo I told you so's. But this is definitely a chicken before the egg situation. Before the season started you said that D'Antoni would not teach this team defense. You were right, they have not learned defense. Before the season I said that no matter who was brought in to coach this team would never learn defense. So far I am right as well. This is the NBA, not college. Until you bring in leadership on the court, that plays both ends you are never going to see a Nate, David etc transformation. Why keep looking for it? This is why GM's clean out 23 win teams because they know that there are no magical coaches.

Islesfan is not a narcissist.

If you're saying that I'm the Chicken and you're the Egg and the Situation is getting to 10,000 posts first, then yes you are correct, the Chicken comes before the Egg.

If you can't expect the coach to be able to teach and coach the players until 2010, when they acquire some good players, then what was the hurry in hiring D'Antoni?

Was there a hurry, or was this the guy that Walsh wanted?

If it was, then it was a pretty myopic decision on Walsh's part, knowing that the team won't be put together for another 2 years.

I don't get it, why? You put together the team and then get the coach? Or you get the coach and management team together and then develop a team that fits their philosophy of what they think will win. I don't understand why would you would wait to hire the coach you want. Just because your team stinks? Haven't both D'Antoni and Walsh warned us that it will be a long process?
I just hope that people will like me
islesfan
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12/29/2008  1:33 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bippity10:

Listen, you need someone to build around. You can't just slap talent(mediocre talent if you are talking about the Knicks) and expect it to mesh into a contender. You need to find a legitimate talent(whether that's done through draft, trade or free agency is irrelevant) and then build a team around that person or persons that compliments their skills. In the meantime all the rest is just a pipedream. This is why we need to clear cap space and target draft picks.

I do think that if the psychological side of things doesn't zap us again, that we will get better as the season goes on. We as fans should not be excited/depressed by the amount of wins, but by the season long development of a few players that we may be able to use to build around any future stars we bring in. Who knows, maybe Gallo or Chandler develops into one of those key cogs. I'm excited about those two. As for the rest of them, they are what they are. Players that are being evaluated and not a definite piece of a future core. Remember we won 23, 33 and 23 games the past 3 years. We brought in a new coach, a new system, 1 guy that can't hit a shot, a rookie that's injured, 2 guys not intended to be here in 2 years, and a PG that is still young and developing but is also possibly not here in 2 years. As for those that remain from a 23 win team, we have one in exile, one fat, hurt and lazy and many others who helped to contribute to the fiasco of the last three years. My question is, what did you expect???????

Some of us killed Isiah for bringing in this crappy roster. Killed him for 3 years. Then he is fired and we can't beleive that the new guy can't win with the same roster that we killed Isiah for? I don't get it.

Who's killing D'Antoni for not winning? I haven't seen that at all. I, for one, am killing him for not doing the only thing he should be doing over the next 2 seasons, which is teaching fundamentals and coaching defense and his system. Over a quarter of the season has passed and there's no evidence of any of that. That's inexcusable.

Listen you narcissist. I never mentioned you. But yes, without a doubt the gloves are coming off and there are fans going after the guy for every reason under the sun. You can see it on this site, you can see it in response to blogs. It's there, and with each loss the caucaphony of lunacy will get louder.

As for the defense, yes we know you are in I told you so mode. I've been in that mode so I do not poo poo I told you so's. But this is definitely a chicken before the egg situation. Before the season started you said that D'Antoni would not teach this team defense. You were right, they have not learned defense. Before the season I said that no matter who was brought in to coach this team would never learn defense. So far I am right as well. This is the NBA, not college. Until you bring in leadership on the court, that plays both ends you are never going to see a Nate, David etc transformation. Why keep looking for it? This is why GM's clean out 23 win teams because they know that there are no magical coaches.

Islesfan is not a narcissist.

If you're saying that I'm the Chicken and you're the Egg and the Situation is getting to 10,000 posts first, then yes you are correct, the Chicken comes before the Egg.

If you can't expect the coach to be able to teach and coach the players until 2010, when they acquire some good players, then what was the hurry in hiring D'Antoni?

Was there a hurry, or was this the guy that Walsh wanted?

If it was, then it was a pretty myopic decision on Walsh's part, knowing that the team won't be put together for another 2 years.

I don't get it, why? You put together the team and then get the coach? Or you get the coach and management team together and then develop a team that fits their philosophy of what they think will win. I don't understand why would you would wait to hire the coach you want. Just because your team stinks? Haven't both D'Antoni and Walsh warned us that it will be a long process?

When the head coach has proven that he's only capable of coaching a certain way, with a certain type of players, then yeah, the head coach should come after the players.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Bippity10
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12/29/2008  2:02 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bippity10:

Listen, you need someone to build around. You can't just slap talent(mediocre talent if you are talking about the Knicks) and expect it to mesh into a contender. You need to find a legitimate talent(whether that's done through draft, trade or free agency is irrelevant) and then build a team around that person or persons that compliments their skills. In the meantime all the rest is just a pipedream. This is why we need to clear cap space and target draft picks.

I do think that if the psychological side of things doesn't zap us again, that we will get better as the season goes on. We as fans should not be excited/depressed by the amount of wins, but by the season long development of a few players that we may be able to use to build around any future stars we bring in. Who knows, maybe Gallo or Chandler develops into one of those key cogs. I'm excited about those two. As for the rest of them, they are what they are. Players that are being evaluated and not a definite piece of a future core. Remember we won 23, 33 and 23 games the past 3 years. We brought in a new coach, a new system, 1 guy that can't hit a shot, a rookie that's injured, 2 guys not intended to be here in 2 years, and a PG that is still young and developing but is also possibly not here in 2 years. As for those that remain from a 23 win team, we have one in exile, one fat, hurt and lazy and many others who helped to contribute to the fiasco of the last three years. My question is, what did you expect???????

Some of us killed Isiah for bringing in this crappy roster. Killed him for 3 years. Then he is fired and we can't beleive that the new guy can't win with the same roster that we killed Isiah for? I don't get it.

Who's killing D'Antoni for not winning? I haven't seen that at all. I, for one, am killing him for not doing the only thing he should be doing over the next 2 seasons, which is teaching fundamentals and coaching defense and his system. Over a quarter of the season has passed and there's no evidence of any of that. That's inexcusable.

Listen you narcissist. I never mentioned you. But yes, without a doubt the gloves are coming off and there are fans going after the guy for every reason under the sun. You can see it on this site, you can see it in response to blogs. It's there, and with each loss the caucaphony of lunacy will get louder.

As for the defense, yes we know you are in I told you so mode. I've been in that mode so I do not poo poo I told you so's. But this is definitely a chicken before the egg situation. Before the season started you said that D'Antoni would not teach this team defense. You were right, they have not learned defense. Before the season I said that no matter who was brought in to coach this team would never learn defense. So far I am right as well. This is the NBA, not college. Until you bring in leadership on the court, that plays both ends you are never going to see a Nate, David etc transformation. Why keep looking for it? This is why GM's clean out 23 win teams because they know that there are no magical coaches.

Islesfan is not a narcissist.

If you're saying that I'm the Chicken and you're the Egg and the Situation is getting to 10,000 posts first, then yes you are correct, the Chicken comes before the Egg.

If you can't expect the coach to be able to teach and coach the players until 2010, when they acquire some good players, then what was the hurry in hiring D'Antoni?

Was there a hurry, or was this the guy that Walsh wanted?

If it was, then it was a pretty myopic decision on Walsh's part, knowing that the team won't be put together for another 2 years.

I don't get it, why? You put together the team and then get the coach? Or you get the coach and management team together and then develop a team that fits their philosophy of what they think will win. I don't understand why would you would wait to hire the coach you want. Just because your team stinks? Haven't both D'Antoni and Walsh warned us that it will be a long process?

When the head coach has proven that he's only capable of coaching a certain way, with a certain type of players, then yeah, the head coach should come after the players.

That would make sense if you were keeping the players on the roster. But in this situation it appears that Walsh identified his coach and then is going to build a team that fits his style. Is either way right or wrong? It's only wrong if you feel that D'Antoni can never win a championship with his style.

My style of coaching was the exact opposite of D'Antoni's and I to prefer the defense first mentality. But the truth is the guy had as much playoff and regular season success as any coach that is going to come available in the next few years. Jackson, Popovich, Doc Rivers, LB(been there chased him out of town) are not walking through this door anytime soon. Of the rest, apparently none of them have a style that wins in the playoffs. In Boston, everyone wanted Doc out because they could never win with his style of coaching. His substitution patterns were too crazy, his leash too short, he didn't understand the game. Everyone becomes a genius when they get the right players. LB seems to be the only coach that can win without a superstar and we chased him out of town because we loved our players so much.

Who's next?
I just hope that people will like me
TMS
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12/29/2008  8:36 PM
Posted by NYKBocker:
Posted by TMS:

they looked good in the first several weeks & then after the trade, but ever since that Lakers game it seems they've regressed back to 1 on 1 play & guys aren't playing w/the same energy as they were before.

i dunno if MDA is making guys better or not, but the team play has been better than i've seen in a long time right up til the Lakers game... Duhon was orchestrating the offense, D Lee was thriving in the pick & roll game, Al Harrington was showing his versatility on offense, Nate was providing a great spark off the bench... things looked real good for a while considering what we have on this roster talent wise... they seemed to have formed a real team cohesion & guys knew what their roles were & where they were supposed to be on the floor... the past few games they look completely disjointed & lazy & guys are forcing up bad shots w/no flow or pace at all in the offense.

in terms of player development:

Nate looked like he had really progressed earlier in the season but the past few games he's gone back to last year's style of play as has the rest of this team.

dunno how much Wilson Chandler's developed this season, but his jumpshot does look better than it did last year... he's still very prone to defensive lapses a lot tho i've noticed, & still seems tentative to look for his offense sometimes.

D Lee hasn't really developed much, he still does well what he's always done well... his midrange jumpshot is still not consistent enough to say he's improved much & his defense is still non-existent.

& Duhon has impressed me for the most part both for his toughness & willingness to lay his body on the line for the sake of the team... i think he & D Lee had formed a real nice chemistry after the Zach trade but of late he's not being as aggressive looking for his shot as he was earlier in the season.

the rest of these guys are vets so i wouldn't expect much development out of them regardless if MDA was coaching or someone else.

I agree about everything here except for DLee. I think he improved a lot in that his post defense is better in the entry part. When the post player gets the ball in the post he is average as he cannot block any shots as his arms are not that long. His perimeter defense is still terrible but he is playing the 5 so this is a non-issue right now. He has also developed his mid-range jumpshot with some consistency. When he shoots the mid-range shot without hesitation he usually makes it, at least that is how I see it.

that's fair i guess about D Lee's jumpshot, it's been better than last year's absolutely... i dunno if that's due to MDA developing him as much as D Lee just working on his jumpshot on his own over the offseason... but i'll give u that one.

i still don't see D Lee playing much defense tho... he might be holding position a little better in the low post but his help defense is still horrible.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Bippity10
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12/30/2008  8:23 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by NYKBocker:
Posted by TMS:

they looked good in the first several weeks & then after the trade, but ever since that Lakers game it seems they've regressed back to 1 on 1 play & guys aren't playing w/the same energy as they were before.

i dunno if MDA is making guys better or not, but the team play has been better than i've seen in a long time right up til the Lakers game... Duhon was orchestrating the offense, D Lee was thriving in the pick & roll game, Al Harrington was showing his versatility on offense, Nate was providing a great spark off the bench... things looked real good for a while considering what we have on this roster talent wise... they seemed to have formed a real team cohesion & guys knew what their roles were & where they were supposed to be on the floor... the past few games they look completely disjointed & lazy & guys are forcing up bad shots w/no flow or pace at all in the offense.

in terms of player development:

Nate looked like he had really progressed earlier in the season but the past few games he's gone back to last year's style of play as has the rest of this team.

dunno how much Wilson Chandler's developed this season, but his jumpshot does look better than it did last year... he's still very prone to defensive lapses a lot tho i've noticed, & still seems tentative to look for his offense sometimes.

D Lee hasn't really developed much, he still does well what he's always done well... his midrange jumpshot is still not consistent enough to say he's improved much & his defense is still non-existent.

& Duhon has impressed me for the most part both for his toughness & willingness to lay his body on the line for the sake of the team... i think he & D Lee had formed a real nice chemistry after the Zach trade but of late he's not being as aggressive looking for his shot as he was earlier in the season.

the rest of these guys are vets so i wouldn't expect much development out of them regardless if MDA was coaching or someone else.

I agree about everything here except for DLee. I think he improved a lot in that his post defense is better in the entry part. When the post player gets the ball in the post he is average as he cannot block any shots as his arms are not that long. His perimeter defense is still terrible but he is playing the 5 so this is a non-issue right now. He has also developed his mid-range jumpshot with some consistency. When he shoots the mid-range shot without hesitation he usually makes it, at least that is how I see it.

that's fair i guess about D Lee's jumpshot, it's been better than last year's absolutely... i dunno if that's due to MDA developing him as much as D Lee just working on his jumpshot on his own over the offseason... but i'll give u that one.

i still don't see D Lee playing much defense tho... he might be holding position a little better in the low post but his help defense is still horrible.

I don't think you develop a jumpshot in 28 games unless you have been working on it all offseason.
I just hope that people will like me
arkrud
Posts: 32217
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12/30/2008  11:35 AM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Bippity10:

Listen, you need someone to build around. You can't just slap talent(mediocre talent if you are talking about the Knicks) and expect it to mesh into a contender. You need to find a legitimate talent(whether that's done through draft, trade or free agency is irrelevant) and then build a team around that person or persons that compliments their skills. In the meantime all the rest is just a pipedream. This is why we need to clear cap space and target draft picks.

I do think that if the psychological side of things doesn't zap us again, that we will get better as the season goes on. We as fans should not be excited/depressed by the amount of wins, but by the season long development of a few players that we may be able to use to build around any future stars we bring in. Who knows, maybe Gallo or Chandler develops into one of those key cogs. I'm excited about those two. As for the rest of them, they are what they are. Players that are being evaluated and not a definite piece of a future core. Remember we won 23, 33 and 23 games the past 3 years. We brought in a new coach, a new system, 1 guy that can't hit a shot, a rookie that's injured, 2 guys not intended to be here in 2 years, and a PG that is still young and developing but is also possibly not here in 2 years. As for those that remain from a 23 win team, we have one in exile, one fat, hurt and lazy and many others who helped to contribute to the fiasco of the last three years. My question is, what did you expect???????

Some of us killed Isiah for bringing in this crappy roster. Killed him for 3 years. Then he is fired and we can't beleive that the new guy can't win with the same roster that we killed Isiah for? I don't get it.

Who's killing D'Antoni for not winning? I haven't seen that at all. I, for one, am killing him for not doing the only thing he should be doing over the next 2 seasons, which is teaching fundamentals and coaching defense and his system. Over a quarter of the season has passed and there's no evidence of any of that. That's inexcusable.

Listen you narcissist. I never mentioned you. But yes, without a doubt the gloves are coming off and there are fans going after the guy for every reason under the sun. You can see it on this site, you can see it in response to blogs. It's there, and with each loss the caucaphony of lunacy will get louder.

As for the defense, yes we know you are in I told you so mode. I've been in that mode so I do not poo poo I told you so's. But this is definitely a chicken before the egg situation. Before the season started you said that D'Antoni would not teach this team defense. You were right, they have not learned defense. Before the season I said that no matter who was brought in to coach this team would never learn defense. So far I am right as well. This is the NBA, not college. Until you bring in leadership on the court, that plays both ends you are never going to see a Nate, David etc transformation. Why keep looking for it? This is why GM's clean out 23 win teams because they know that there are no magical coaches.

Islesfan is not a narcissist.

If you're saying that I'm the Chicken and you're the Egg and the Situation is getting to 10,000 posts first, then yes you are correct, the Chicken comes before the Egg.

If you can't expect the coach to be able to teach and coach the players until 2010, when they acquire some good players, then what was the hurry in hiring D'Antoni?

Was there a hurry, or was this the guy that Walsh wanted?

If it was, then it was a pretty myopic decision on Walsh's part, knowing that the team won't be put together for another 2 years.

I don't get it, why? You put together the team and then get the coach? Or you get the coach and management team together and then develop a team that fits their philosophy of what they think will win. I don't understand why would you would wait to hire the coach you want. Just because your team stinks? Haven't both D'Antoni and Walsh warned us that it will be a long process?

When the head coach has proven that he's only capable of coaching a certain way, with a certain type of players, then yeah, the head coach should come after the players.

Winning team is a team with players playing coach style. And yes - if some are not; they are gone. Regardless of talent, star status, etc.
If you think that you can take a bunch of talents and stars and make them winners by hiring random coach - you are delusional. Look at NBA for last 10 years - how many very talented rosters went to trash because of inept coaching.
We have unique opportunity to build ALL team around specific coaching style and playing system because we have NO players we want and need to hold on too.
They selected Mike to make it more exiting (read a little more profitable) in interim. But in general any good coach will we OK to have. The trades and signings will be then different matching other coaching style. But as GM you must make a choice and we have what we have. So let’s run with it.





"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
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