Posted by VDesai:

Posted by Allanfan20:

I'm not talking about when he was on the Wizards. I'm talking about when the Knicks were in Atlanta on Friday.

My bad. I have not seen him consistently bring it like that in his career, but that is certainly at the top end of what he is capable of doing.

i've seen Jefferies put up double digit rebound games in the past, which are usually quickly followed up in the next 5 or 6 games w/crappy statlines... he is what he is, a minor role player that's good for short spurts, but should not be relied upon to provide productive big minutes on a regular basis.

Yeah I agree. He doesn't have any offensive potential (Whether Allan Houston is practicing with him or not) and I think he was playing out of his head. He must have had a lot of adrenaline, b/c it was his first game back, but who knows. He needs to play like THAT in order to be a solid contributer for us. Not the way he played today.

"fishlips out of water"- nice line....

Posted by TMS:

Posted by martin:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by martin:

this thread reminds me of the early anxiousness around the Chris Duhon signing. Let's let the player find his way back into game playing shape and show us what he's got before we dump him for a complete unproven player who can shoot the ball.

i wasn't 1 of those Duhon doubters but at least u can cut the doubt some slack there since Duhon hadn't been playing on this team for the past few years like Jefferies has... we have much more intimate knowledge of Fishlips' quality as a basketball player from years past... u really should not expect him to be much more than a guy who will provide a little energy off the bench in 15 minute spurts over the course of the season... he's not going to be a revelation under Mike D'Antoni's coaching.

I disagree. Curry was a feature player 2 years ago and last year is was Curry and Randolph in the post, mostly that means JJ2 was playing the 3 or outside where he is a fishlips out of water. I'd like to see what he can do in a MDA system where he will be close to the basket.

in a shallow water type role i have no problem using JJ lips, like i've been saying all along... but we already have D Lee playing in that role... what do u honestly expect out of JJ playing in this new system stats wise? just curious.

no idea what I expect out of him stat-wise. I just wanna see him play in the system healthy for a couple of months before we toss him.

ZBo had a revelation in the MDA system.

If JJ2 could get anywhere near 6 pts 6 rebs off the bench and maybe a block, that would be the best that anyone could reasonably expect from him I think.

Posted by kam77:

Its not impossible to trade Jeffries if you're willing to take back a longer contract. As long as that contract is less than what Jeffries makes for 2010, its a positive.

w/his trade kicker it severely hampers ur options... ur looking at taking back a contract that's equal to $10 mil in return for Jefferies' $7 mil salary... that is if u'r even lucky enough to find a team willing to give up a contract that expires before 2010 for him that is.

Posted by kam77:

EDIT: Look at Matt Carrols contract on Charlotte and see if Bob Johnson wants to shed some long term salary.
We take on the extra years but save 2 mil in the summer of 2010. Thats nothing to scoff at.

[Edited by - kam77 on 12-08-2008 12:23 AM]

Matt Carroll's contract is actually very good tho... they frontloaded it so the annual hit becomes progressively less in future years... & even if the Bobcats wanted to trade him, u'd still have to combine that contract w/another expiring that's valued around $3 mil this year too, which means either Sean May who becomes a RFA after this season, or a combo of Jared Dudley & some scrub minimum fillers... Dudley has a team option after this season so he can be cut, so that works from that standpoint... still there's no way in the world the Bobcats are giving up all those players for Jared Jefferies.

[Edited by - TMS on 12-07-2008 9:34 PM]

Posted by VDesai:

Jared Dudley alone is better than jared Jeffries.

at least they have the same first name... that's gotta count for something.

The owner is not happy with how much he's spending on the team. I can see them making trades because LB is there and MJ is not the best GM in the world.

if we could swing a Carroll for Fishpucker trade i'd be all over that like a hungry shark on a piece of raw tuna... i don't see it happening anytime soon tho.

& i don't know if RealGM accounts for Jefferies' trade kicker or not.

it's all very muddy language, but it sounds to me like the team taking on a player who has a trade kicker is obligated to account for the trade bonus kicker when determining the amount of total salary they're taking in, which means if the team that's trading him is over the cap, they will be required to take back that full value in salary in return as a cap hit... the whole reason why trade kickers are given is to discourage teams from trading that player, thus ensuring more stability & control over where that player is going to be playing... basically Isiah royally Fugged up by signing Jefferies to begin with & compounded that disastrous decision w/including a trade kicker just in case someone didn't think it was all that bad a move to make.

Can players be given a bonus when they are traded?

Teams are permitted to write a bonus called a "trade bonus" (sometimes referred to as a "trade kicker") into contracts. This bonus is paid to the player when he is traded, but only upon his first trade and not upon any subsequent trades (in the case of a sign-and-trade, they don't count the initial trade when the contract is signed). The trade bonus can be defined as a specific dollar amount, a specific percentage of the remaining value of the contract, or some combination (e.g., "$1 million or 10% of the remaining value of the contract, whichever is less"). In either case, the actual amount cannot exceed 15% of the remaining value of the contract. For example, suppose a player has a six-year contract that pays $1 million per year. This player also has a $500,000 trade bonus. Since the trade bonus is limited to 15% of the remaining value of the contract, the actual value of the bonus varies from year to year, as follows (the bonus pro-rates during the season, so these amounts are exact only at the start of each season):
Year Remaining value of the contract 15% of the remaining value of the contract Actual value of $500,000 trade bonus
1 $6,000,000 $900,000 $500,000
2 $5,000,000 $750,000 $500,000
3 $4,000,000 $600,000 $500,000
4 $3,000,000 $450,000 $450,000
5 $2,000,000 $300,000 $300,000
6 $1,000,000 $150,000 $150,000

Notes on trade bonuses:

* Option years are not counted when determining the remaining value of the contract, unless already exercised. ETOs are counted.
* Incentive compensation is not counted when determining the remaining value of the contract -- just base compensation.
* A trade bonus cannot cause a player's salary to exceed the maximum salary, based on his years of service, during the year of the trade (see question number 84 for more information on this).
* The value of a trade bonus is pro-rated during the season. In the above example, if the player is traded halfway through the fifth season, then the trade bonus would be $225,000.

How do trade bonuses affect the salary cap and trades?

For the salary cap, the value of a trade bonus is applied to the team salary among the remaining years of the contract (excluding non-guaranteed years -- see question number 91, and years following an Option or ETO -- see question number 50), in proportion to the percentage of salary in each of those seasons that is guaranteed. For example, suppose the player from question number 83 is traded at the start of the fifth season of his contract. Per the chart in that question, the actual value of his trade bonus that season is $300,000. If every season of the contract is guaranteed, and there is no Early Termination Option, then $150,000 is charged to each of the final two seasons of the player's contract, so a total of $1,150,000 is included in the team salary in each of those seasons. (Note that the allocation is not proportionate to the salary, but rather to how much of the salary is guaranteed. If the player from question number 83 had a higher salary in the sixth season than in the fifth season, his bonus would still be allocated equally to those seasons. However, if the sixth season was only 50% guaranteed, then two-thirds of the bonus would be allocated to the fifth seasons, and one-third to the sixth season.)

Suppose the player has an Early Termination Option following the fifth season of his contract. In this event, the entire trade bonus will be allocated to the fifth season of the contract. The player will therefore count $1,300,000 against the team salary during that season.

For trades, trade bonuses can be a nuisance. When a team trades for a player with a trade bonus, it must count the portion of the bonus that applies to team salary in that season as incoming salary. Let's say a team wants to trade their $800,000 player for the player used in the example above, in the fifth season of that player's contract. Assuming there is no Early Termination Option or non-guaranteed season, the bonus counts $150,000 in the current season, so the trade cannot be made. The team trading the $800,000 player can accept $1,100,000 in return (see question number 68), but the player with the trade bonus counts as $1,150,000 in incoming salary.

The CBA allows the player to waive part of his trade bonus, if necessary to allow a trade to fit within the 125% plus $100,000 margin. To make the above trade work, the player would need to waive $100,000 of his $300,000 trade bonus. The bonus would then be worth $200,000, and $100,000 of that would be allocated to the current season. The player would therefore count $1,100,000 as incoming salary, which exactly matches the maximum the other team can accept in return for their $800,000 player. The player is not allowed to waive more than the amount necessary to make the trade legal.

Another potential difficulty is that a team trading a player with a trade bonus uses the player's pre-trade salary (without the bonus), when comparing salaries for trade. Here is another example, using the same player as before. This time, let's assume our player has an Early Termination Option following the fifth season of his contract, so if he is traded during the fifth season, the entire bonus is allocated to that season. This means that following a trade, $1,300,000 is included in his new team's team salary. Suppose a team wants to trade their $1,400,000 player for this player. The other team can accept $1,850,000 for their player, and since our player counts $1,300,000 as incoming salary, there's no problem on their end. But our player counts $1 million as outgoing salary, so the most we can accept in return is $1,350,000. This means the trade doesn't work from our end. And in this case, waiving a portion of the trade bonus will not help.

For contracts and extensions signed after the current CBA went into effect, the player's salary added to his trade bonus cannot exceed the maximum salary for that year (based on years of service). For example, in 2005-06 the maximum salary for a player with 7-9 years of service is $14,400,000. If such a player has a $14 million salary and a $1 million trade bonus, then his trade bonus is pared down to $400,000 when he is traded. This happens automatically -- the player has no say in the matter. For contracts and extensions signed before the current CBA went into effect, the player receives his entire trade bonus, even if it causes the player's salary to exceed the maximum.