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New Yorkers please help me out.
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EwingsGlass
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12/7/2008  7:35 PM
Posted by Uptown:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by King1:

Because I think getting one big time free agent is feasible not two. I think you sign Lee at the four go get a defensive minded big, play Wilson and the three and Gallinari, and have Duhon and a free agent like Johnson or Lebron and you still have money left over to spend the next year.

i don't think u would actually... at the most u would have the MLE which we would have even if we were capped out after 2010 anyway.

max FA ~$17 mil
Lee ~$10 mil
Wilson $2 mil
Gallo $3 mil
Jefferies $7 mil
Curry $11 mil
Duhon ~$9 mil (if he keeps playing like this)
'09 draft pick ~$2.5 mil

that's ~$62 mil committed to 8 players on the roster, leaving u w/only about $3 mil leftover depending on what the cap is that year or the MLE to fill the other 4 roster spots... u can see how much of a hindrance D Lee & Curry's contracts will prove to be to any chances of landing another bigname FA in 2010.

having the flexibility to land 2 bigname FA's in 2010 is a much better attractor for any FA to want to come here than to have someone like D Lee on the roster to play with if u ask me... if we have the ability to sign only 1 guy i think there's much less of a chance we'll land any of them at all.

[Edited by - TMS on 12-07-2008 1:50 PM]

Excellent point. Forget about Chandler and Gallo, but the idea that Lebron and Bosh can play together on the same team should be very attractive to both of them, regardless of city, etc. Bosh has never played with anyone the callibre of James and vice-versa. That in itself is attratcive to both. Once those two players are in tow, with an owner like Dolan, Walsh can then overspend for role players to fill out a championship roster. That would be spending wisely.

I see everyone looking at Duhon as though he is some star player, but it is clearly the system that is boosting his game. Why assume we would pay Duhon 9m when the Knicks could sign another backup pg with potential to a cheap contract and let the system work? Basically, for the next two years, they can let players pad their stats, boost their value and trade them off without any real recourse because this they are simply building towards a 2010 free agency bonanza.

You also have 18 months to boost Jeffries and Curry's value and ship them to teams that could use their skill sets. Clear all of the dead weight and start as clan as possible in 2010.

Aim towards making an offer to James and Bosh simultaneously for $34m. Include Chandler, Gallo and draft someone like Rubio for about a total of 9m in cap space, and that leaves about $19m to fill the remaining required 7 roster spots. Hopefully, the knicks will have collected a couple 2nd rd draft picks for 2009 and 2010 at $500k each so that they can keep their allocated salary down. Say we have 3 2nd rd draft picks between 2009 and 2010. We then have $17.5 to spend on 4 more players at and average of $4.5m each.

Why would Lebron want to be the only star here? Bring in Bosh and Lebron and other players will follow in order to play with these guys. Regardless of how it turned out, Malone and Payton signed cheap to play with Shaq and Kobe. The roster will fill itself in easily if you get two stars.

If Lee, Robinson, Duhon, or any other Knick have trade value that can help get rid of Jeffries and Curry and return a draft pick, I would take it in a heartbeat.
You know I gonna spin wit it
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Swishfm3
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12/7/2008  7:45 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by VDesai:

Money and FAME. Making you're name in NYC vs. New Orleans or Atlanta carries quite a different cache. And the Knicks have a top notch coach that many players would like to play for. If they can maneuver away Curry and Jeffries and have Nate, Lee, Chandler, Gallo and a no.1 pick here for 2 guys to play with, that is a fairly solid core.

The Knicks don't have to get 2 big name FA's in 2010- but they can. Having the space in 2010, 2011 etc. will put themselves in a position to build themselves back up.

The Burress incident is not helping attracting FAs either. NYC is not thought about that well once you get outside of it. Not like New Yorkers like to think it is. Guys are more than happy hanging out in New Orleans or Atlanta than you think or want to believe.

really? Have you been to either of those places? Possibly the two most overrated Cities in America.

Never been to Chicago...But, if I was an athlete...MIAMI, LA, NY (in that order) would be the three top places I would play in.

BRIGGS
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12/7/2008  8:26 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by King1:

Because I think getting one big time free agent is feasible not two. I think you sign Lee at the four go get a defensive minded big, play Wilson and the three and Gallinari, and have Duhon and a free agent like Johnson or Lebron and you still have money left over to spend the next year.

i don't think u would actually... at the most u would have the MLE which we would have even if we were capped out after 2010 anyway.

max FA ~$17 mil
Lee ~$10 mil
Wilson $2 mil
Gallo $3 mil
Jefferies $7 mil
Curry $11 mil
Duhon ~$9 mil (if he keeps playing like this)
'09 draft pick ~$2.5 mil

that's ~$62 mil committed to 8 players on the roster, leaving u w/only about $3 mil leftover depending on what the cap is that year or the MLE to fill the other 4 roster spots... u can see how much of a hindrance D Lee & Curry's contracts will prove to be to any chances of landing another bigname FA in 2010.

having the flexibility to land 2 bigname FA's in 2010 is a much better attractor for any FA to want to come here than to have someone like D Lee on the roster to play with if u ask me... if we have the ability to sign only 1 guy i think there's much less of a chance we'll land any of them at all.

[Edited by - TMS on 12-07-2008 1:50 PM]

Doesnt work like that. Lets say we take the economy into consideration and set the cap at 50mm$


off the bat we have
Gallinari 3.3mm
Curry 11.2
Jefferies 6.9
Chandler 2.1
we resign Lee at 9mm
09 draft pick 1.5mm
we have to let nate walk and we cannot use the mle because we are under the cap

If the cap is at 50mm we have approximately 16.5 in cap space. If my math is right Lebron James next contract will start at 20mm$.

I don't see how they will resign Lee and Nate for their plan to work and you get bet your bottom $ that if Chris Duhon plays like this he is long gone as well.

you HAVE to get 2-3 high caliber salary restricted players into the cap and THEN buy you big time free agents.
RIP Crushalot😞
GKFv2
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12/7/2008  8:27 PM
Posted by King1:

New Yorkers please help me out.

No.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
knicks1248
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12/7/2008  8:33 PM
No matter how you look at it, all those cities are big markets, and when it comes to spot lights look no further then LJ and wade, who have had the share of media bouts since coming into the league, and as international champs.
I thought it might be a bit of a pipe dream but I have a very good feeling that LJ will be playing for NY weather cleveland wins it all or not.

Im not not sure about adding 7 new players in one off season, so all those trade senerios about getting rid of what we have before actually dealing with what we have and adding to it makes no sence.

Lee, Nate, chandler, DG, even Al are very good players to put around a couple of all stars, and the fact that Chris duhon fits well in this system, makes all the more sense. You may say he's having success because of MDA, well he turned nash into a 2 time MVP, and Nash doesn't look anything close to that level this season. So be it
ES
BigRedDog
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12/7/2008  8:49 PM
I think you also forgetting the coach factor. Every player would love to play for D'Antonio. He is going to be big for atttracting players to come here.
fishmike 9/27/2024 11:00 PM Ug I hate this. The idea of Towns is great until you see what a pussy he is. Jules is a dog. DD was a flamethrower locked up cheap for 3 more years. First Leon move I hate
TMS
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12/7/2008  9:37 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by King1:

Because I think getting one big time free agent is feasible not two. I think you sign Lee at the four go get a defensive minded big, play Wilson and the three and Gallinari, and have Duhon and a free agent like Johnson or Lebron and you still have money left over to spend the next year.

i don't think u would actually... at the most u would have the MLE which we would have even if we were capped out after 2010 anyway.

max FA ~$17 mil
Lee ~$10 mil
Wilson $2 mil
Gallo $3 mil
Jefferies $7 mil
Curry $11 mil
Duhon ~$9 mil (if he keeps playing like this)
'09 draft pick ~$2.5 mil

that's ~$62 mil committed to 8 players on the roster, leaving u w/only about $3 mil leftover depending on what the cap is that year or the MLE to fill the other 4 roster spots... u can see how much of a hindrance D Lee & Curry's contracts will prove to be to any chances of landing another bigname FA in 2010.

having the flexibility to land 2 bigname FA's in 2010 is a much better attractor for any FA to want to come here than to have someone like D Lee on the roster to play with if u ask me... if we have the ability to sign only 1 guy i think there's much less of a chance we'll land any of them at all.

[Edited by - TMS on 12-07-2008 1:50 PM]

Doesnt work like that. Lets say we take the economy into consideration and set the cap at 50mm$


off the bat we have
Gallinari 3.3mm
Curry 11.2
Jefferies 6.9
Chandler 2.1
we resign Lee at 9mm
09 draft pick 1.5mm
we have to let nate walk and we cannot use the mle because we are under the cap

If the cap is at 50mm we have approximately 16.5 in cap space. If my math is right Lebron James next contract will start at 20mm$.

I don't see how they will resign Lee and Nate for their plan to work and you get bet your bottom $ that if Chris Duhon plays like this he is long gone as well.

you HAVE to get 2-3 high caliber salary restricted players into the cap and THEN buy you big time free agents.

the only thing different in your analysis from mine is your estimate of what the cap will be set at... i can't tell the future just going based off what the cap increases have been incrementally over the past few years & setting a base figure estimate based off that... even still, u can see that it's imperative that we dump Curry's contract for a shorter term deal for the 2010 plan to have any chance of succeeding... & we can't just simply sign D Lee & Nate to extensions w/o thought to how it will effect our cap that year either.
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VDesai
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12/7/2008  10:09 PM
The salary cap is basically 51% of basketball related income. The cap for this year is at 58 million and has risen on average 3 mil a year. For the cap to decline to 50 mil in 2010 would have to mean some catastrophic change to a teams cable contract or something. I expect that number to remain rather sticky, as most teams cable contracts will remain consistent from year to year. Gates and concessions would have to decline tremendously for BRI to be reduced to an amount that would result in an $8 million dollar cap decrease.

I think Briggs' assumptions are way off.
Bonn1997
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12/7/2008  10:25 PM
People have explained this many times and you're just gonna get the same answers that they and I feel are compelling and you don't. Did we really need a new thread?
GKFv2
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12/7/2008  10:31 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:

People have explained this many times and you're just gonna get the same answers that they and I feel are compelling and you don't. Did we really need a new thread?

Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by King1:

New Yorkers please help me out.

No.
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
Bonn1997
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12/8/2008  12:54 AM
Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by Bonn1997:

People have explained this many times and you're just gonna get the same answers that they and I feel are compelling and you don't. Did we really need a new thread?

Posted by GKFv2:
Posted by King1:

New Yorkers please help me out.

No.

HA!
Knicksfan
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12/8/2008  1:23 AM
Bonn, get ready because we will have threads like this a lot until 2010.
Knicks_Fan
Bonn1997
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12/8/2008  6:44 AM
One FA 2010 pinned thread would be great. Then lock these other threads. Just my opinion.
BRIGGS
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12/8/2008  8:33 AM
Posted by VDesai:

The salary cap is basically 51% of basketball related income. The cap for this year is at 58 million and has risen on average 3 mil a year. For the cap to decline to 50 mil in 2010 would have to mean some catastrophic change to a teams cable contract or something. I expect that number to remain rather sticky, as most teams cable contracts will remain consistent from year to year. Gates and concessions would have to decline tremendously for BRI to be reduced to an amount that would result in an $8 million dollar cap decrease.

I think Briggs' assumptions are way off.

The cap will drop just like everything else in the economy--you think the NBA is not immune from this vicious cycle? 50mm is about a 15% drop which I think is probable. 2009 will be the worst economic year in 70++ years and the 2010 cap is going to be based on that. 50mm will be a LUCKY number
RIP Crushalot😞
VDesai
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12/8/2008  9:10 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by VDesai:

The salary cap is basically 51% of basketball related income. The cap for this year is at 58 million and has risen on average 3 mil a year. For the cap to decline to 50 mil in 2010 would have to mean some catastrophic change to a teams cable contract or something. I expect that number to remain rather sticky, as most teams cable contracts will remain consistent from year to year. Gates and concessions would have to decline tremendously for BRI to be reduced to an amount that would result in an $8 million dollar cap decrease.

I think Briggs' assumptions are way off.



The cap will drop just like everything else in the economy--you think the NBA is not immune from this vicious cycle? 50mm is about a 15% drop which I think is probable. 2009 will be the worst economic year in 70++ years and the 2010 cap is going to be based on that. 50mm will be a LUCKY number


BRIGGS, you are assuming a $16-$17 mil drop in gate reciepts- its certainly possible, but definitely not a base assumption when revenue from gate receipts tends to rise. The cable income is not gonna change b/c most teams are locked into contracts. If the cap did drop that much, you better believe contracts in the NBA will be way down as well- proportionate with the way the cap dropped. In which case you can't assume players like like Lee, Nate and Duhon to recieve $10 mil contracts- you can't have your cake and eat it too.


[Edited by - vdesai on 12-08-2008 09:10 AM]
fishmike
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12/8/2008  9:46 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by VDesai:

The salary cap is basically 51% of basketball related income. The cap for this year is at 58 million and has risen on average 3 mil a year. For the cap to decline to 50 mil in 2010 would have to mean some catastrophic change to a teams cable contract or something. I expect that number to remain rather sticky, as most teams cable contracts will remain consistent from year to year. Gates and concessions would have to decline tremendously for BRI to be reduced to an amount that would result in an $8 million dollar cap decrease.

I think Briggs' assumptions are way off.

The cap will drop just like everything else in the economy--you think the NBA is not immune from this vicious cycle? 50mm is about a 15% drop which I think is probable. 2009 will be the worst economic year in 70++ years and the 2010 cap is going to be based on that. 50mm will be a LUCKY number
the cap isnt based on the economy. There are a ton of factors.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
Andrew
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12/8/2008  9:48 AM
As the salary cap drops...so does the Max contract amount.
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EwingsGlass
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12/8/2008  9:50 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by VDesai:

The salary cap is basically 51% of basketball related income. The cap for this year is at 58 million and has risen on average 3 mil a year. For the cap to decline to 50 mil in 2010 would have to mean some catastrophic change to a teams cable contract or something. I expect that number to remain rather sticky, as most teams cable contracts will remain consistent from year to year. Gates and concessions would have to decline tremendously for BRI to be reduced to an amount that would result in an $8 million dollar cap decrease.

I think Briggs' assumptions are way off.

The cap will drop just like everything else in the economy--you think the NBA is not immune from this vicious cycle? 50mm is about a 15% drop which I think is probable. 2009 will be the worst economic year in 70++ years and the 2010 cap is going to be based on that. 50mm will be a LUCKY number


But a max contract is based on the percentage of the cap, no? So, it shouldn't matter?
You know I gonna spin wit it
Elite
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12/8/2008  9:56 AM
Posted by EwingsGlass:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by VDesai:

The salary cap is basically 51% of basketball related income. The cap for this year is at 58 million and has risen on average 3 mil a year. For the cap to decline to 50 mil in 2010 would have to mean some catastrophic change to a teams cable contract or something. I expect that number to remain rather sticky, as most teams cable contracts will remain consistent from year to year. Gates and concessions would have to decline tremendously for BRI to be reduced to an amount that would result in an $8 million dollar cap decrease.

I think Briggs' assumptions are way off.

The cap will drop just like everything else in the economy--you think the NBA is not immune from this vicious cycle? 50mm is about a 15% drop which I think is probable. 2009 will be the worst economic year in 70++ years and the 2010 cap is going to be based on that. 50mm will be a LUCKY number


But a max contract is based on the percentage of the cap, no? So, it shouldn't matter?

exactly, Briggs do you just sit around and search for negative angles to nitpick about regarding the Knicks?
BRIGGS
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12/8/2008  10:39 AM
Posted by Andrew:

As the salary cap drops...so does the Max contract amount.

Lebron will be on the secondary max--the kind Shaq KG Kobe get. It has a different standard than a first time maximum contract. It will still be effected but not on the same scale.
RIP Crushalot😞
New Yorkers please help me out.

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