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Could we get a SG for Lee?
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Knicksfansince94
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12/6/2008  5:00 PM
I don't want a SG for Lee.

The only thing I want for Christmas is a young, athletic, shot-blocking big man. That's what we need to cash in Lee for.
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12/6/2008  5:11 PM
Lee's rebounding stats amaze me. You never see him blocking out, yet the ball does bounce his way 15 times a game. It's not a surprise that with Lee under the basket that we give up so many offensive rebounds as I just don't see him blocking anyone out of the box. . Does anyone know how many offensive rebounds he gets?

As far as his pick and roll, he's damn good at it. I'm just going on one game but with Jeffries in there the ball movement was excellent and guys were getting open shots. The couple of runs we had last night were with Jeffries in there. I liked the Thomas, Harrington Jeffries line alot. The energy was really up and they got some offensive boards and plenty of open looks. They spread the floor nicely.

Lee is a good player, but man, I just wish he could hit the 'J'
Knicksfansince94
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12/6/2008  5:17 PM
The last two seasons plus the current season, Lee has averaged 3.4, 3.0, and 2.8 offensive rebounds, respectively.

Dwight Howard, during the same time interval, has averaged 3.5, 3.4, and 4.9.

[Edited by - knicksfansince94 on 12-06-2008 5:18 PM]
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King1
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12/6/2008  5:31 PM
A offensive rebound is like an extra possession and Lee is a great passer he never holds the ball. He never blocks out he is restling with centers this year and will get overpowered Jeffires will average 4 points and 6 boards if he stays healthy
TMS
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12/6/2008  5:55 PM
Posted by Finestrg:
Posted by King1:

I think you have to trade for another big if you get rid of Lee. That means next year you will have Jeffires, and Harrington as your bigs Then you go in 2010 and try and convince Lebron to play with no inside game at all. This draft may be the worst I have seen in 15 years. No sure fire all stars and no depth. I think Malik and Lee for Diaw is possible. Lee for Thomas or Noah pick which stiff you want. Lee for Fernandez or Outlaw is something portland would look at in the future. I really think Portland will put a huge trade together this year.

Diaw's a nice player but why on earth do you want to add his massive salary ($9 million a season through 2012) when clearly the name of the game is getting under the cap ENOUGH to be a player in the 2010 FA market??? If that's how you guys really feel, might as well just keep Lee at $9-10 mil. a pop. Might as well have kept Randolph and Crawford as well... We've come so far and waited so long for salary cap room I don't want to screw it up now by taking on any crazy longterm salary commitments for marginal talent. No thanks. Diaw's actually another example of why Lee will get $9-10 million a pop btw...

If we flip Lee, which I'm actually in favor of btw, I'd like a backcourt piece and a frontcourt player that are young and UNDER CONTROL salary-wise at least until after 2010. Either guys that will still be on their rookie contracts or guys that have re-uped recently for reasonable salaries in the $5 million range along with whatever addition salary is necessary to make a S&T with Lee work as long as it's gone by 2010. After 2010 FA comes and goes, I wouldn't mind re-uping anyone on the roster to fair market value. But first thing's first...

And I totally disagree that there aren't any PFs in this upcoming draft. First of all, the best player in the draft, Blake Griffin, is a PF. Sophmore Gani Lawal has over a 7' wingspan & is putting up monster numbers for G. Tech so far (22.2 ppg on a crazy 65% from the field, 11.2 rpg, 1.2 bpg, 1.4 spg); I haven't seen Patrick Patterson play that much to be honest but TMS is saying he's the goods (17.8/8/1.7 blocks); Hansbrough won't be a star but he'll contribute for some team at the next level (could be another David Lee with a better offensive game); Arizona's Jordan Hill seems for real (17.4/12.3/2.6 blocks); Gonzaga's 6'11" Josh Heytvelt is huge and putting up solid numbers (15/6.6/1.8 blocks); Vandy's Andrew Ogilvy is big and very skilled (could be another Chris Mihm, Mehmut Okur or better)... Then there's good PF talent projected to go in the 2nd round - guy's that I've seen and like a lot - Jeff Adrien, Gavin Edwards, Taj Gibson, Robert Dozier and a guy I'm looking forward to seeing, Jarvis Varnado, who's averaging a double-double with over 6 blocks/game to lead the country.

Plenty of opportunities to pick up a rotation big man in this draft. By season's end, if a guy like Taj Gibson continues to put up 16/11/4 blocks, you better believe I'd be interested with our 2nd rounder if he's even still on the board...


[Edited by - finestrg on 12-06-2008 3:06 PM]

totally agree Finest as usual... there are younger cheaper options at the PF in this draft that can replace D Lee's production easily... the smart thing to do would be to trade him now for draft picks if u can, not trade him for a big contract... that would defeat the whole purpose, we mine as well just sign him to an extension if u wanna go that route.

Taj Gibson's #'s look awesome dude... i'm gonna check him out in the coming weeks... good find.
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King1
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12/6/2008  6:22 PM
If someone can replace his numbers why is there only 13 players in the league that can average a double-double? Only 7 players from his draft class is putting up better numbers. He is the leading rebounder from his draft class. You can go get someone else but that wont get 13 points and 10 boards and shoot 50% from the field and not need shots.
King1
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12/6/2008  6:25 PM
There hasnt been very many players that werent top 5 picks in the last couple drafts put up better numbers than Lee and you think Walsh is smart enough to find a 2nd round pick which I dont think the Knicks even have one next year. Walsh messed up by not trading him before the beginning of the year now you will get screwed on a trade.
TMS
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12/6/2008  6:29 PM
Posted by King1:

If someone can replace his numbers why is there only 13 players in the league that can average a double-double? Only 7 players from his draft class is putting up better numbers. He is the leading rebounder from his draft class. You can go get someone else but that wont get 13 points and 10 boards and shoot 50% from the field and not need shots.

first of all my guess is that Harrington will be our starting PF next year cuz i am getting the distinct feeling that Walsh will look to trade Lee on draft night just like he did this past offseason... second, D Lee as good of a rebounder as he is, is 1 of the worst defensive bigmen in the game & doesn't block shots at any appreciable clip... he's not the answer for us as a starting C... he's an awesome shallow water player on offense but anyone w/athleticism & some basketball instincts can excel in that same role... we need someone who can be a defensive presence down low... Lee's a nice player & i wouldn't mind keeping him but u of all people have to realize he's going to demand a big pricetag to hold onto... the best option for us is to trade him while we still can get a quality young asset for him.
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King1
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12/6/2008  6:43 PM
If someone else can excel in his role why cant anyway find one. He isnt a center I totally agree with that. What player will go set 70 screens a game like Lee does? The answer is no one why isnt this league full of players averaging double-double and shooting 55% from the field? No team is going to trade a draft pick on draft night when they can wait and bid on him a week later. Everyone knows that the Knicks wont match so the Knicks have no leverage
TMS
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12/6/2008  6:50 PM
like i've been saying for weeks now i think the time to trade Lee is now while we can get a pick for him in return... if we wait til draft night our options are limited just like u said... if it means we have to deal w/Fishlips & Curry as our starting C tandem for the rest of this season, so be it... we gotta keep amassing assets to rebuild this franchise & we can't afford to let D Lee walk away for nothing in return.

[Edited by - TMS on 12-06-2008 3:52 PM]
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King1
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12/6/2008  6:57 PM
TMS I totally agree but the time to do it was this summer. I am glad they didnt trade him because Lee has shown what he can do when he gets 32 minutes a game. I just think your going to get fleeced on a trade now because you wont get equal value.
TMS
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12/6/2008  6:59 PM
you're confusing me here, u've been saying D Lee won't be worth the money he's going to ask for in free agency but u don't think it's a good idea to trade him now cuz we won't be able to get equal value back? what do u wanna do w/D Lee?
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TMS
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12/6/2008  7:02 PM
yo Finest, Taj Gibson's 23 & pretty rail thin for a 6'9" guy... do u think he's a tweener or do u think he'll be like a Ty Thomas type PF when he hits the NBA?
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tkf
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12/6/2008  7:03 PM
Posted by Swishfm3:

You trade D.Lee NOW, and draft T.Hansbrough in 09. He can do everything Lee can do, only 10x better. PLUS, he has jumper.

This will also eliminate the worries of signing Lee to a long term deal and ruining any chances of signing TWO Superstars in the FA classs of 2010.

you would like to think he could do everything lee can do, but you know how it is. Some guys game don't trasnlate to the NBA game that well. Lee has done well because he is a good athelete, great with either hand and can finish on the break. who knows how good Hansbrough will be. But for the sake of keeping salaries down in line with our 2010 plan, it might be worth the risk.....

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
TMS
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12/6/2008  7:32 PM
our obvious need right now is for a SG w/some size who can knock down a J & get rid of Robersuck if anything... even if we have to bring Von Wafer back & let Roberson go, i'd go that route... at least Wafer's got some size at the SG position & will likely be a better finisher around the rim... Roberson is a liability & our team needs a better option at the backup SG position.
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Swishfm3
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12/6/2008  10:15 PM
Posted by tkf:
Posted by Swishfm3:

You trade D.Lee NOW, and draft T.Hansbrough in 09. He can do everything Lee can do, only 10x better. PLUS, he has jumper.

This will also eliminate the worries of signing Lee to a long term deal and ruining any chances of signing TWO Superstars in the FA classs of 2010.

you would like to think he could do everything lee can do, but you know how it is. Some guys game don't trasnlate to the NBA game that well. Lee has done well because he is a good athelete, great with either hand and can finish on the break. who knows how good Hansbrough will be. But for the sake of keeping salaries down in line with our 2010 plan, it might be worth the risk.....

I totally agree with you, which is why Im not as depended on the draft like many on this board are...but Hansbrough...kids special. He was the best player last year. And he's the best player this year.
King1
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12/6/2008  10:18 PM
The only person game I know better than David is Tyler. Hansbrough is a inch shorter than David and half the athlete. Tyler has the heart of a lion but doesnt have the fluidity or athleticism of David. UNC has played him at the 5 his whole career and I think he will be an average pro.
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12/6/2008  10:25 PM
how about Malik & D Lee for Stackhouse, Brandon Bass & DAL's 1st round pick lottery protected?
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King1
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12/6/2008  10:33 PM
I dont think you can get fair value for Lee because he is a RFA. There isnt anyone that makes his money and produces like he does. The teams that want him will just sit back and wait to bid on him.
TMS
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12/6/2008  10:41 PM
so basically u wanna re-sign him even though it will entail overpaying him? what do u do w/Nate & Harrington then? let those guys walk?
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