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Article: Knicks and Steph Deserve Each Other
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Cosmic
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12/5/2008  1:43 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Nalod:

Isles, based on reports it almost seems the Mobley is concerned also about his health and seems that doing this right is a priority. Knicks are on the hook for this one and since they accepted the deal the insurance company might not cover it as its a prexisting condition.

I'd be curious to know if Mobley is concerned about his condition or about the Knicks putting an end to his career prematurely. From what I read, Mobley insisted on seeing the doctor in Minnesota, perhaps to prove that his condition hasn't changed or isn't as serious as the Knicks are making it seem and he should be allowed to continue his career.

That doctor is the one Curry refused to see out of fear that that doctor would put an end to his career.

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Cosmic
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12/5/2008  1:45 PM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Nalod:

Isles, based on reports it almost seems the Mobley is concerned also about his health and seems that doing this right is a priority. Knicks are on the hook for this one and since they accepted the deal the insurance company might not cover it as its a prexisting condition.

I'd be curious to know if Mobley is concerned about his condition or about the Knicks putting an end to his career prematurely. From what I read, Mobley insisted on seeing the doctor in Minnesota, perhaps to prove that his condition hasn't changed or isn't as serious as the Knicks are making it seem and he should be allowed to continue his career.

That doctor is the one Curry refused to see out of fear that that doctor would put an end to his career.


Knick guard Cuttino Mobley has met with a heart specialist in Minneapolis - the same one which teammate Eddy Curry refused to visit during his dispute with the Chicago Bulls which resulted in the sign and trade to New York, the New York Post is reporting.

One source said Mobley has mulled taking a medical retirement, depending on the results of the series of heart tests. However because this was a preexisting condition it is unclear if he has the standard insurance stipulations in his contract.

"It's a tough call," the source said. "I'm pretty sure (he) doesn't want to take chances if it's really that serious. It's a tough situation. The most important thing is him and his health."

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islesfan
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12/5/2008  1:48 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:



A veteran gets put on the shelf and is told he should retire for a condition that he had played his entire career with.

See, you're just making **** up. How can anyone believe or be convinced of your arguments.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/05/sports/basketball/05knicks.html

The waivers stated Mobley’s awareness of his condition and his consent to playing, cleared the teams from any legal liability if Mobley experienced medical issues from the condition and limited Mobley’s ability to obtain health insurance. What appears to be new is the Knicks’ concern that Mobley’s heart condition is more serious than previously thought.

What exactly am I making up?

Thanks for the blurb that shows that the only thing different is how the Knicks are viewing the same exact condition. I'm pretty sure Mobley had to go through a thorough physical before training camp 2 months ago. Did the condition change that drastically since then or does the Knicks crack medical committee have a different view? A viewpoint that will amazingly enough free the team from paying his salary and open up a much needed roster spot. But then that might just be cynical me talking.

It's been even suggested that the Knicks could not apply for the insurance as this condition was found time ago so your theory that the Knicks are doing this to save 75% could very well be wrong. Why would the Knicks do all this so that the player they got can't play and they still have to pay him the whole contract? Maybe because the concern for Mobley's life is real. Is that so hard to believe?

Is it wrong that the Knicks would get a medical exception for Mobley and free up a roster spot? What does that medical exception entail?

Is the Knicks concern for Mobley's life really that much greater than that of the Clippers or the other teams that Mobley has played for?
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
BlueSeats
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12/5/2008  1:51 PM
There was an article yesterday that quoted TT saying he and Mobley were discussing the possible retirement with TT saying the dude has made good money and he should protect his life.

But who cares about his life if we can somehow use it against Walsh?
islesfan
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12/5/2008  2:08 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by islesfan:

Players usually take sides with other players, especially against management. I'm sure Marbury's past history will be taken into account but I don't think Knicks management will get a total pass for how they've handled this matter.

Everybody in the league has been waiting for Marbury to handled. They may not think it's been done with surgical precision, but I doubt they think for a second it would extend to them.


Curry got over his infection to play in 3 preseason games and practice in preparation for the start of the season but was then DNP-CDed for the first 2 games without any explanation as to why. Meanwhile a rookie who didn't play in the preseason and barely practiced before the start of the season was given minutes in the first 2 games before they came to their senses and said that not only was he not healed enough to play the next game but he would be sitting out indefinitely.

You can't be telling me you're angry that our lottery player got minutes over the guy who yet again began the season unable to run and jump.

It's a good thing we still have Isiah on retainer because some of you seem quite ready to renew the coddling of our lost cause franchise players.
Then they trade for Mobley, who is known to have an enlarged heart and has played his entire career with it, and the team spreads rumors that his career is in doubt instead of allowing Mobley to sign a medical waiver as he has with all of his other teams.

Show me again where Mobley requested to sign the medical waiver and was denied. All indications so far are that Mobley is taking the situation every bit as seriously as the Knicks. And if the Knicks decide they'd rather get a medical exemption than risk having this guy die on the floor, I'm okay with that.
A proven veteran gets DNPed even though he's deemed healthy enough to play.

Eddy, who came into camp with a bum knee and in no condition to run and jump, let alone play NBA ball, is now a "proven vet" who's getting shafted?

What did they do to you over at RealGM??? Didn't anybody tell you not to drink the water?
A rookie that the team had sit out for the past 4 months because he was hurt, suddenly plays in 2 games, after which they deem him still hurt and incapable of playing for the forseeable future.

Typical Knicks, agreed.
A veteran gets put on the shelf and is told he should retire for a condition that he had played his entire career with.

Right now his condition is simply being evaluated. I have a hunch if he were being thrown out there with a known condition just so that we could win a couple more games in a year where we need to score big in the draft, that might raise your ire too.
Does any of this mean that they Knicks can't sign quality free agents in 2010? Not at all, but you'd be foolish to think that the way the Knicks have handled some of these players situations isn't being noticed by players around the league and their agents.

I'd like to think the kind of guys we are trying to attract are pleased that management is distancing themselves from Isiah's coddled, wretched mistakes.

The treatment they are giving to Eddy and Steph is benign compared to what you or I would have wished for them last year. Rushing Gall back was dumb, but only because it set him back, it has no bearing on Curry. And best I can tell about Mobley, they are doing due diligence in seeing just how bad his heart is. Nothing would set this franchise back more than having him die on the floor for our sins.

You can't be telling me you're angry that our lottery player got minutes over the guy who yet again began the season unable to run and jump.

It's a good thing we still have Isiah on retainer because some of you seem quite ready to renew the coddling of our lost cause franchise players.

If the lottery player isn't physically right and had no business being in there and the other player is one whose value you're trying to improve so we can get rid of him, then yeah I disagree with that. I don't want Curry coddled, I want Curry gone and being DNPed wasn't going to help the chances of getting rid of him.
Show me again where Mobley requested to sign the medical waiver and was denied. All indications so far are that Mobley is taking the situation every bit as seriously as the Knicks. And if the Knicks decide they'd rather get a medical exemption than risk having this guy die on the floor, I'm okay with that.

I'll show it to you when you show me the proof you have that Mobley's condition has worsened since he took his Clippers physical 2 months ago. Is Mobley concerned that his condition has gotten worse or about his career being prematurely ended by the Knicks crack medical committee?
Eddy, who came into camp with a bum knee and in no condition to run and jump, let alone play NBA ball, is now a "proven vet" who's getting shafted?

What did they do to you over at RealGM??? Didn't anybody tell you not to drink the water?

If he was in no condition to play, then he shouldn't have been practicing or playing in 3 exhibition games. But he was deemed fit by the Knicks. He was DNPed because D'Antoni didn't want him to play. As a proven vet, not necessarily a good one but one who is capable of averaging 15/7, that only decreases his value.

You don't want to know what I had to do over there, I can't even bring myself to tell my therapist yet.
Right now his condition is simply being evaluated. I have a hunch if he were being thrown out there with a known condition just so that we could win a couple more games in a year where we need to score big in the draft, that might raise your ire too.

I don't know where you would ever get that idea from Blue.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
Knicksfan
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12/5/2008  2:10 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by Knicksfan:
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:



A veteran gets put on the shelf and is told he should retire for a condition that he had played his entire career with.

See, you're just making **** up. How can anyone believe or be convinced of your arguments.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/05/sports/basketball/05knicks.html

The waivers stated Mobley’s awareness of his condition and his consent to playing, cleared the teams from any legal liability if Mobley experienced medical issues from the condition and limited Mobley’s ability to obtain health insurance. What appears to be new is the Knicks’ concern that Mobley’s heart condition is more serious than previously thought.

What exactly am I making up?

Thanks for the blurb that shows that the only thing different is how the Knicks are viewing the same exact condition. I'm pretty sure Mobley had to go through a thorough physical before training camp 2 months ago. Did the condition change that drastically since then or does the Knicks crack medical committee have a different view? A viewpoint that will amazingly enough free the team from paying his salary and open up a much needed roster spot. But then that might just be cynical me talking.

It's been even suggested that the Knicks could not apply for the insurance as this condition was found time ago so your theory that the Knicks are doing this to save 75% could very well be wrong. Why would the Knicks do all this so that the player they got can't play and they still have to pay him the whole contract? Maybe because the concern for Mobley's life is real. Is that so hard to believe?

Is it wrong that the Knicks would get a medical exception for Mobley and free up a roster spot? What does that medical exception entail?

Is the Knicks concern for Mobley's life really that much greater than that of the Clippers or the other teams that Mobley has played for?

The Knicks could or could not get a medical exception, as they are tough to get in the NBA even if the player retires. If they get it that could certainly help them get a player to substitute Mobley, but don't you think that if they get no cap benefit, like you suggest, they would rather have a solid player like Mobley at two than any prospect in the D-League?

The only way it makes sense for the Knicks to force Mobley into retirement, like you suggest, is if they don't have to pay for his contract and it looks like that option wont be available. So if they only get a roster spot and an 4.5 million medical exemption, the latter not a given, it makes no sense for the Knicks not to let Mobley just play if he isn't really in danger.

About the Clippers, you are assuming Mobley went through the same tests with the Clippers to investigate the status on his condition. That doesn't seem to be the case. The last reports suggest that Mobley has been seeing the best specialists known for their experience in heart conditions. That may not have been the case with the Clippers.

And last, you keep ignoring the fact that its Mobley who is leading the way in this investigation. While logic tells you he would be more worried about his health, you bring the suggestion that Mobley just wants to prove the Knicks he can play, like he is resisting to be forced to retire. So far the only real report related to retirement was in the NY Times' article today where it mentioned he exchanged text messages with Tim Tomas and states Mobley was the one considering retirement.
Knicks_Fan
islesfan
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12/5/2008  2:16 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

There was an article yesterday that quoted TT saying he and Mobley were discussing the possible retirement with TT saying the dude has made good money and he should protect his life.

But who cares about his life if we can somehow use it against Walsh?

Come on Blue, that's uncalled for. If Mobley's condition has precipitously declined since he took his Clippers physical 2 months ago, then the Knicks are acting responsibly and not selfishly at all.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
martin
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12/5/2008  2:19 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by BlueSeats:

There was an article yesterday that quoted TT saying he and Mobley were discussing the possible retirement with TT saying the dude has made good money and he should protect his life.

But who cares about his life if we can somehow use it against Walsh?

Come on Blue, that's uncalled for. If Mobley's condition has precipitously declined since he took his Clippers physical 2 months ago, then the Knicks are acting responsibly and not selfishly at all.

what do we know about what type of physical the Clipps gave Mobley and the one the Knicks gave him? You are assuming they are the same.
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BlueSeats
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12/5/2008  2:29 PM
Posted by islesfan:


You don't want to know what I had to do over there, I can't even bring myself to tell my therapist yet.

You slay me.

On the Cat thing, if he were chirping I might feel otherwise, but he seems just as concerned as the Knicks. Looks legit from here.
BlueSeats
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12/5/2008  2:41 PM
Posted by islesfan:


If he was in no condition to play, then he shouldn't have been practicing or playing in 3 exhibition games. But he was deemed fit by the Knicks. He was DNPed because D'Antoni didn't want him to play. As a proven vet, not necessarily a good one but one who is capable of averaging 15/7, that only decreases his value.


You're trying to have it both ways. If D' plays him on a bum knee he's wrong, but if he sits him to heal he's also wrong. If Eddy is to be moved having him grind his knee down on bone spurs is not the way to do it.

Not fair to blame the coach, any coach, for another wasted year out of Eddy. He's like a Jerome James on steroids... and milk shakes.
islesfan
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12/5/2008  3:57 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by islesfan:


If he was in no condition to play, then he shouldn't have been practicing or playing in 3 exhibition games. But he was deemed fit by the Knicks. He was DNPed because D'Antoni didn't want him to play. As a proven vet, not necessarily a good one but one who is capable of averaging 15/7, that only decreases his value.


You're trying to have it both ways. If D' plays him on a bum knee he's wrong, but if he sits him to heal he's also wrong. If Eddy is to be moved having him grind his knee down on bone spurs is not the way to do it.

Not fair to blame the coach, any coach, for another wasted year out of Eddy. He's like a Jerome James on steroids... and milk shakes.

His knee wasn't an issue until after the second game. I have no problem sitting him after the second game if he has a bum knee.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TMS
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12/5/2008  4:34 PM
obviously Kelly Dwyer posts regularly on these forums.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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