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Bippity10
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12/3/2008  12:21 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by NYKBocker:
Posted by BlueSeats:

Last decent free agent signing was Allan Houston and LJ in the same offseason.

Would love to keep Lee but its not like he's a viable alternative to a major free agent signing. I take it Lee would like to stay with this team, which is great, but he has to keep perspective on the direction of this team with regard to his contract.

But nothing is going to work out for this team unless it starts killing it in the draft.

Just a little correction. It was Houston and Childs that were FA signings that year. LJ was trated for Mason.



i forgot about that. good job.

Weren't we very close to signing Tim Hardaway instead of childs?
I just hope that people will like me
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Elite
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12/3/2008  12:26 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by NYKBocker:
Posted by BlueSeats:

Last decent free agent signing was Allan Houston and LJ in the same offseason.

Would love to keep Lee but its not like he's a viable alternative to a major free agent signing. I take it Lee would like to stay with this team, which is great, but he has to keep perspective on the direction of this team with regard to his contract.

But nothing is going to work out for this team unless it starts killing it in the draft.

Just a little correction. It was Houston and Childs that were FA signings that year. LJ was trated for Mason.



i forgot about that. good job.

Weren't we very close to signing Tim Hardaway instead of childs?

I don't remember that, but I do remember us being close to signing Reggie Miller isntead of Allan Houston (glad that didnt happen) and also according to some recent articles... Jordan himself

http://www.nba.com/bulls/news/smith_081201.html?rss=true
JohnWallace44
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12/3/2008  1:55 PM
Posted by kam77:
Posted by Andrew:

If the Knicks want to resign Duhon, they can do so after they sign their prize FA. Holding a spot for him will take up about 6M in cap space.

According to KBY its a 7.8 mil cap hold for Duhon in 2010.

In theory we can sign LeBron and Bosh, max out the cap, and then sign our own Free Agents correct?
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
crzymdups
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12/3/2008  2:01 PM
Posted by JohnWallace44:
Posted by kam77:
Posted by Andrew:

If the Knicks want to resign Duhon, they can do so after they sign their prize FA. Holding a spot for him will take up about 6M in cap space.

According to KBY its a 7.8 mil cap hold for Duhon in 2010.

In theory we can sign LeBron and Bosh, max out the cap, and then sign our own Free Agents correct?

no, unless we renounce their rights, our own guys keep a cap hold and we don't have space.

i think we'll keep Duhon and renounce Harrington. it makes no sense to keep Harrington if we have Chandler, Dlee and we're aiming to sign a forward of the Bron, Amare, Bosh type.

¿ △ ?
jaydh
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12/3/2008  2:21 PM
Why would the knicks just lose Nate and Lee again??
SupremeCommander
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12/3/2008  2:25 PM
The Knicks aren't going to lose either after this season. Worst case is a qualifying offer is extended this offseason and then they leave after they become UFAs. There'll be at least one more year of service from both.
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
King1
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12/3/2008  2:35 PM
You either match a RFA or you lsoe him with no compensation. If you sign and try and trade him then you have to take on a huge salary so that makes no sense. Everyone on the board thought not signing Lee was perfect and now it will cost a couple more million a year to keep him or you lose him for nothing.
jaydh
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12/3/2008  2:36 PM
And why wouldn't the Knicks match on Lee or Nate? I'm not sold on Lee and still look for him to be traded at some point.
SupremeCommander
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12/3/2008  2:40 PM
Posted by King1:

You either match a RFA or you lsoe him with no compensation. If you sign and try and trade him then you have to take on a huge salary so that makes no sense. Everyone on the board thought not signing Lee was perfect and now it will cost a couple more million a year to keep him or you lose him for nothing.

Technically, yes, but what team is going to offer over market value for either? Lee is a flawed player and Nate is well under six feet. I can't see a team swoop in and pay more than the Knicks would. I can't see a scenario where the Knicks won't have an opportunity to utilize the qualifying offer if they decide they don't want either long term.
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
Elite
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12/3/2008  2:45 PM
no good team would see Lee as anything but a great roll player... and no good manager would pay a good roll player more than 8 million per year....

Only problem is a lot of manager are not good.. so we could be in trouble.
King1
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12/3/2008  2:46 PM
13 players in the NBA last year averaged a double-double and Lee will average one this year. DO you think someone is going to offer Lee a MLE like Jeffires and Jerome James had? It cracks me up how everyone wants to trade him for Tyrus Thomas, Bayless and other players that havent put up any numbers in the league. The bidding for Lee will start at 45 million and I bet you could have easlily got him for that before the year started. If you reshuffle the draft for his year he is picked 8 and look at the money the players before him received. They should have signed him or traded him before the season.
King1
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12/3/2008  2:49 PM
Bobby Simmons 10 million, Josh smith 13 million, Okafor 13 million, Wally 13 million and Illgauska 11.5 everyone one of these players are flawed or they would be getting maxed contracts
fishmike
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12/3/2008  2:50 PM
I went through this already.
If the Knicks resign Lee starting at $8mm and Nate starting at $6mm
If the Knicks can dump Curry but have to keep JJ
That leaves them with:
Nate $6mm
Lee $8mm
Gallo: $3.3mm
Chandler :$2.1mm
JJSkinny $6.8mm
Draft 09 $2.5mm x2 (lets say we get an extra pick this year)

That puts us at $31.2mm

Lets say we start Duhon at $7mm with a new juicy 5 year $40mm contract

Now we are at $38.2mm

Knicks are Lee, Nate, Chandler, Gallo, JJSkinny, Duhon, the two players we draft in 09 in the offseason of 2010 and we are $26mm under the cap still.

GOD FORBID we are able to move JJSkinny then we are over $30mm under the cap WITH Duhon, Lee, Nate all resigned.

That would leave you with a veteran PG who is a pass first guy, some good solid role players and scorers and a coach that most in league regard as one of the most desirable to play for.

The backup plan?

You still have the cap space. If we whiff you still have great opportunity during the year to take on players and not have to match salaries.
Draft
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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12/3/2008  2:51 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/blog/index?entryID=3738618&name=olney_buster

A few weeks ago, a progressive and bright general manager predicted that no fewer than 20 teams would see their on-field decisions impacted by the nation's economic trouble, a guesstimate that, at the moment, seemed stunning in its scope.

But now we know for sure that all 30 teams are being dramatically shaped by the financial problems, whether they have money or not. The confirmation of this came with word that the Yankees decided not to offer arbitration to right fielder Bobby Abreu.

This is the clearest sign, as yet, of how baseball's hot stove has gone cold this winter.

A month ago, the thinking within the Yankees' hierarchy was that offering arbitration to Abreu was an easy choice, a slam dunk. At 34 years old, Abreu was a productive player for them in 2008, hitting .296 with 20 homers and 100 RBIs, and an on-base percentage of .371. The thinking, a month ago, was that Abreu would probably command a multi-year deal from some other team -- probably in the range of $10-12 million a year -- after earning $16 million last season, and if he took that deal, the Yankees would get draft-pick compensation.

If Abreu accepted arbitration, the Yankees would have a productive player on a one-year deal for something in the range of $16-18 million, the kind of thing they would have embraced in recent seasons. It's the kind of gamble the Yankees are in a position to make, as the pre-eminent money powerhouse in the sport.

But as teams like San Diego and Colorado began their payroll cutbacks, the economic dominoes began falling in baseball. Often it has been written that U.S. society, at large, reflects the shifts that have occurred in baseball, most notably the destruction of the color barrier by Jackie Robinson and Larry Doby in 1947. This winter, however, it is Major League Baseball that is following: As the Dow Jones has dropped and fears have mounted, many teams have essentially decided to not spend money, like most U.S. consumers.

A month ago, the notion of Abreu as a $16 million player didn't seem so outrageous. In the current climate, however, executives with other teams believe Abreu might be fortunate to make $8 million. It appears that no other team will offer Abreu anything close to what he would make in arbitration with the Yankees.

So the Yankees could no longer justify gambling an arbitration offer to Abreu for the sake of draft picks.

King, the economy is not this thing that happens somewhere outside of sports. There are going to be a lot of teams that can't afford to open the purse strings next summer. It's happening in baseball and it'll happen in basketball, too.
¿ △ ?
Andrew
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12/3/2008  2:51 PM
Josh Smith makes 10M.
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King1
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12/3/2008  2:52 PM
Can we resign Jerome to a smaller contract and still have money available?
crzymdups
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12/3/2008  2:54 PM
Posted by King1:

Bobby Simmons 10 million, Josh smith 13 million, Okafor 13 million, Wally 13 million and Illgauska 11.5 everyone one of these players are flawed or they would be getting maxed contracts

perhaps instead of pointing to contracts signed by bad general managers it would make more sense to look at contracts walsh has given out in the last ten years or so. he's a little more conservative, as we've already learned.

david lee will be taken care of if he stays with the knicks. whether he thinks it's enough or whether another team offers more are possible scenarios, but walsh has proven to be pretty stubborn and pretty conservative.

everyone wants Lee here. it's just a matter of whether the numbers work for everyone.
¿ △ ?
fishmike
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12/3/2008  2:57 PM
Posted by King1:

13 players in the NBA last year averaged a double-double and Lee will average one this year. DO you think someone is going to offer Lee a MLE like Jeffires and Jerome James had? It cracks me up how everyone wants to trade him for Tyrus Thomas, Bayless and other players that havent put up any numbers in the league. The bidding for Lee will start at 45 million and I bet you could have easlily got him for that before the year started. If you reshuffle the draft for his year he is picked 8 and look at the money the players before him received. They should have signed him or traded him before the season.
why the drama? Will Lee sign for 5 years and $50? That would be 8,9,10,11,12 mill a year. Hell.. give Duhon the same contract. Give Nate a touch less. If you can dump Curry (someone will take a 6'11 scorer) and move JJS you can sign all those guys and still max money for 2 guys.

Also King look around the NBA and teams with cap space and tell me which one is giving David Lee more than the $50mm the Knicks can offer.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
King1
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12/3/2008  2:57 PM
Makes 10 million this year and almost 14 at the end of the contract.
King1
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12/3/2008  3:01 PM
What I am saying they could have got it for 42-45 this summer now who knows what someone will offer. I could easily see him getting somewhere between Darius Miles and Raef Lafrentz slot at Portland. I could see the Bulls realize that Tyrus Thomas is a total bust and they will be losing Gooden and Noah sucks be another team that needs inside help. Not saying he deserves it but there arent too many bigs in the free agent class and Lee is the top RFA.
Lets assume

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