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Just out on front page Marbury pulls offer to give Knicks 1mm
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SupremeCommander
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12/2/2008  2:27 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by sebstar:

I honestly dont see why you guys are interested in this story. Its just sad and played out. I feel like we're just providing oxygen and lighter fluid to this fire.

I'm just glad our financial obligation to Marbury doesnt extend beyond this year. There is an expiration date on this foolishness.

Wake me up when something of significance happens with this guy.

[Edited by - sebstar on 12-02-2008 2:14 PM]

same.

I think fans got used to following the Knicks like it was a soap opera with Isiah leading the franchise... now that's the type of news that gets people talking. It's like the fanbase is conditioned to follow that sort of news... I mean, the Knicks just scored how many points with a player that had how many assists and another that grabbed how many rebounds? That's the stuff Knicks fans used to talk about
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Pharzeone
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12/2/2008  2:29 PM
Posted by Andrew:
Posted by Pharzeone:

From what I been reading is that Walsh and Dolan want to dictate what team is going to pick him up. Which doesn't make sense. You can't buyout a player then demand he doesn't sign with your divisional rivals.

Really...it makes perfect sense to me. If the Knicks are going to pay Steph all of that money and let him go, he must agree to some concessions....being less money, restrictions or both. Otherwise the Knicks just pay him and keep him on the roster.

Andrew, you are missing the point. The coach of your team wants the player to be brought out. The player wanted to play for the coach. The coach is saying how he is a distraction. Either buy out the player or the coach or let the situation sit. Stop putting it on Marbury. As Jalen Rose said Free Marbury, it doesn't make sense. Neither coach, president or owner can seem to get on the same page here. One is telling the press that they are going in another direction, the president said he was unaware of that and the owner appears not to want to pay the guy for not doing anything for the team. I am waiting for Stern to get involve here, you can't say hey want you take less money here even though I know you have a legal contract here that entitles you to receive the full amount but hey don't play for X, Y and Z.
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sebstar
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12/2/2008  2:30 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by martin:
Posted by sebstar:

I honestly dont see why you guys are interested in this story. Its just sad and played out. I feel like we're just providing oxygen and lighter fluid to this fire.

I'm just glad our financial obligation to Marbury doesnt extend beyond this year. There is an expiration date on this foolishness.

Wake me up when something of significance happens with this guy.

[Edited by - sebstar on 12-02-2008 2:14 PM]

same.

I think fans got used to following the Knicks like it was a soap opera with Isiah leading the franchise... now that's the type of news that gets people talking. It's like the fanbase is conditioned to follow that sort of news... I mean, the Knicks just scored how many points with a player that had how many assists and another that grabbed how many rebounds? That's the stuff Knicks fans used to talk about

Definite. I dont know about you guys, but I find this saga remarkably boring and inconsequential.
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loweyecue
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12/2/2008  2:32 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by TMS:

Dolan does not wanna buy him out unless he capitulates to certain conditions obviously, & the $1 mil is nowhere close to what the Knicks expect him to agree to... it's a poker game between 2 morons, what else do u guys expect? send Marbs home w/o supper & bury this issue in the garbage... stop addressing questions about Marbs... treat him like he's no longer a NY Knick... that's the only way this issue will ever be resolved to Dolan's liking... Dolan doesn't give a crap about the money, it's the principle he's unwilling to budge on.


From what I been reading is that Walsh and Dolan want to dictate what team is going to pick him up. Which doesn't make sense. You can't buyout a player then demand he doesn't sign with your divisional rivals.


I am with Dolan/Walsh on this,thing. I still dont get it, what is the logic of paying someone 20 Million so he can go play for a division rival? Just what is wrong with letting him rot in home? If he wants to play that badly he can eat his contract and walk, if he wants the money he can sit and rot. Just why should the knicks fall over themselves to make life peachy for a career loser who has destroyed team for the last 5 years?
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TMS
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12/2/2008  2:33 PM
fans talk about it cuz that's what's being reported in the news & what the media is always focusing on... if u don't add any wood to the fire eventually it goes out.
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TMS
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12/2/2008  2:34 PM
Posted by loweyecue:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by TMS:

Dolan does not wanna buy him out unless he capitulates to certain conditions obviously, & the $1 mil is nowhere close to what the Knicks expect him to agree to... it's a poker game between 2 morons, what else do u guys expect? send Marbs home w/o supper & bury this issue in the garbage... stop addressing questions about Marbs... treat him like he's no longer a NY Knick... that's the only way this issue will ever be resolved to Dolan's liking... Dolan doesn't give a crap about the money, it's the principle he's unwilling to budge on.


From what I been reading is that Walsh and Dolan want to dictate what team is going to pick him up. Which doesn't make sense. You can't buyout a player then demand he doesn't sign with your divisional rivals.


I am with Dolan/Walsh on this,thing. I still dont get it, what is the logic of paying someone 20 Million so he can go play for a division rival? Just what is wrong with letting him rot in home? If he wants to play that badly he can eat his contract and walk, if he wants the money he can sit and rot. Just why should the knicks fall over themselves to make life peachy for a career loser who has destroyed team for the last 5 years?

i agree, Marbs deserves to be treated as a Pariah... he's earned it... no need to give him his cake & let him eat it too... let him rot at home in obscurity... i don't want to see him playing in the NBA at all this year.
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JesseDark
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12/2/2008  2:44 PM
Isn't whatever figure they deduct worth double to the Knicks due to being over the salary cap? So a reduction of 1 mill is really 2 mill because they don't have to pay it to the league.
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BlueSeats
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12/2/2008  2:46 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
As Jalen Rose said Free Marbury, it doesn't make sense.

Marbury is not being held against his will. If Jalen wants to see Steph "freed" he should be talking some sense into Steph, or paying his contract.
TMS
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12/2/2008  2:56 PM
Jalen got his money from Dolan cuz he wasn't raising a stink about it... he acted like a professional his entire time here & never was a cause for distraction on or off the court... Marbs has burned his bridge w/Dolan & now Dolan doesn't wanna give him the satisfaction of a full buyout... both of these guys are just as amazingly stubborn as they are incompetent.
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GallOfFame
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12/2/2008  3:06 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:

The advantage to buying him out is to save money and remove him as a distraction.

The advantage to exiling him is to keep him as a trading chip and to make him suffer.

Saving 1M means nothing to me, and the same goes for Dolan. Nor would I want to trade his contract. So it really boils down to, what's more important, releasing a distraction or extracting revenge.

I think there's an argument to be made that Marbury on another team, especially an eastern team, would still constitute a distraction here in NY. So that's something of a wash to. So it really boils down to whether it's worth a million dollars to Dolan to waste Marbury's career and the answer is yes, and I concur.

Thus, the perfect settlement has been found.



You think he's suffering from this but he isn't. I understand if you want to tell yourself this to make you feel good on the inside but Marbury is too stupid to hurt over the game basketball. Remember he's been telling us basketball isn't his life it's just a game. The dude was talking about playing in Italy last yr. I don't think his interest playing in the NBA is all that high, as long as he can maintain his current earnings.

For all those who think this is damaging his future earnings, I doubt it's hurting him that much. He wasn't going to be anything more than an MLE player irregardless of the distractions. His monetary fate was locked in a while ago. If Tim Thomas a ultra underachiever can get an MLE deal, and sign with a Contender after being a malcontent in Chicago, then Marbury more than likely can do likewise. Teams are just waiting for him to become available.

[Edited by - GallOfFame on 12-02-2008 3:08 PM]
Bippity10
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12/2/2008  3:31 PM
Isn't part of the message here changing the culture? Teaching players that NY is not a place where you go, raise heck or sit on your asse and then get a cushy buyout?
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TMS
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12/2/2008  3:42 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Isn't part of the message here changing the culture? Teaching players that NY is not a place where you go, raise heck or sit on your asse and then get a cushy buyout?

of course not... the message should be that you can behave in any manner you like, play when you feel like it, quit on your team when it suits you, & then be welcomed back with open arms every year just so you can not live up to your empty promises every year... & then get paid to go play for another team when you finally figure out the team no longer wants you.
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earthmansurfer
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12/2/2008  3:44 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by earthmansurfer:


Marbury is an asset and I think we have to first explore if we can get anything for him then make sure he doesn't go to Miami, unless of course Miami takes does Curry for Marion (then I'd pay Marbury the full amount).

i don't agree that he's anywhere near being an asset at this point, if anything he's a liability... but anyway i'm sure Walsh has explored every possible trade option he can & is still doing so... he's not an idiot, he's gonna do his due diligence to get rid of this loser the most advantageous way as is possible... the fact that he's even discussing buyout options at this point should tell u all u need to know about Marbury's supposed value.

When I say he is an asset I don't mean he is (necessarily) some super valuable commodity. That much is clear.
What I mean is this:
It is possible to get something back for him. e.g. - A very good player from a team that needs cap relief, say a 2 year contract that doesn't hurt us.
or swap him for another expiring that isn't really helping the team. e.g. - Marion, as good as he is Marbury would help Miami MUCH more.
or
Since we are not going to use him we can make him sit hoping to save money by him agreeing to a bigger buyout (But it isn't about the money, it's a message imo).

So, my "asset" statement was meant in a very relative way.


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Bippity10
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12/2/2008  3:49 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bippity10:

Isn't part of the message here changing the culture? Teaching players that NY is not a place where you go, raise heck or sit on your asse and then get a cushy buyout?

of course not... the message should be that you can behave in any manner you like, play when you feel like it, quit on your team when it suits you, & then be welcomed back with open arms every year just so you can not live up to your empty promises every year... & then get paid to go play for another team when you finally figure out the team no longer wants you.


As long as we are on the same page


I do think it's time to stop letting guys like this dictate the terms. We are changing the culture. No longer are we a lazy team that doesn't play hard. No longer are minutes dictated by how much money you make. We no longer play you because we need you, we play you because you earned it. No longer do we accept every peice of riff raff offered to us. And no longer do babies get whatever they want. I do think we should have cut him during preseason. I didn't think anyone would go off the handle this year, but Marbs was the only one that I thought may prove me wrong. But we didn't cut him, so now hardball is okay. Eventually we may give him what he wants, but it won't be on his terms whenver he says it will be. It will be when we decide. It could have been handled better at the start, but I'm okay with where we are. Marbs is a minor factor. The team is clearly moving on, and the culture is slowly(very slowly) changing. And that is a good thing.
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Masterplan
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12/2/2008  3:51 PM
Posted by GallOfFame:

For all those who think this is damaging his future earnings, I doubt it's hurting him that much. He wasn't going to be anything more than an MLE player irregardless of the distractions. His monetary fate was locked in a while ago. If Tim Thomas a ultra underachiever can get an MLE deal, and sign with a Contender after being a malcontent in Chicago, then Marbury more than likely can do likewise. Teams are just waiting for him to become available.

it's an interesting question, i guess time will tell. i'd argue that steph has got to have very few strikes left, and he's now used one of them up here. look at steve francis - dumped by orlando then NY, bought out by portland, signed on the cheap but benched anyway in houston. think he has another NBA contract in his future? i doubt it. we'll see where TT lands in 2010 free agency too.

i'm sure teams out there are willing to take a flier on steph post-Knicks. but after that inevitably fails, i wouldn't be surprised if the NBA is done with him. whereas, if he had managed to part ways with us amicably, maybe he could bounce between a few teams and prolong his career.

that's just my speculation. i really don't care what happens to him. he won't play for the knicks again. whether he's on our roster or someone else's, the NY media will run with any storyline involving him. none of it matters to this team any more. based on comments from d'antoni, Q, duhon, i think they've moved on.
TMS
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12/2/2008  3:55 PM
Marbury is a child... he needs to be treated like one... he's on Timeout right now on punishment... no calls to the team, no coming to the games, no contact with your teammates... sit in your room with your hands above your head until i come get you.

ever watch the Dog Whisperer try to train mindless animals? when they growl at him he just stares them in the eye & stands his ground... when they jump on him because they want to be fed, he tells them to sit & wait til he's damn good & ready to give it to them... he dictates the terms, not the dog... that's exactly how the Knicks have to treat Marbury.
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TMS
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12/2/2008  3:57 PM
Posted by earthmansurfer:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by earthmansurfer:


Marbury is an asset and I think we have to first explore if we can get anything for him then make sure he doesn't go to Miami, unless of course Miami takes does Curry for Marion (then I'd pay Marbury the full amount).

i don't agree that he's anywhere near being an asset at this point, if anything he's a liability... but anyway i'm sure Walsh has explored every possible trade option he can & is still doing so... he's not an idiot, he's gonna do his due diligence to get rid of this loser the most advantageous way as is possible... the fact that he's even discussing buyout options at this point should tell u all u need to know about Marbury's supposed value.

When I say he is an asset I don't mean he is (necessarily) some super valuable commodity. That much is clear.
What I mean is this:
It is possible to get something back for him. e.g. - A very good player from a team that needs cap relief, say a 2 year contract that doesn't hurt us.
or swap him for another expiring that isn't really helping the team. e.g. - Marion, as good as he is Marbury would help Miami MUCH more.
or
Since we are not going to use him we can make him sit hoping to save money by him agreeing to a bigger buyout (But it isn't about the money, it's a message imo).

So, my "asset" statement was meant in a very relative way.

like i said u have to assume that Walsh has explored every possible trade option he can & will continue to do so... the last option to solve any problem is a buyout... sometimes there's just no other way to resolve a matter.
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BasketballJones
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12/2/2008  4:17 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by sebstar:

I honestly dont see why you guys are interested in this story. Its just sad and played out. I feel like we're just providing oxygen and lighter fluid to this fire.

I'm just glad our financial obligation to Marbury doesnt extend beyond this year. There is an expiration date on this foolishness.

Wake me up when something of significance happens with this guy.

[Edited by - sebstar on 12-02-2008 2:14 PM]

same.

I guess I underestimate the influence of this forum then.
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nysportsfan11
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12/2/2008  4:52 PM
He's even got his wife in on this bull**** about not taking "a penny less". Steph is in desperate need of an open handed Oak-slap across the grill.

Stop comparing other bought out players to Steph. All of those players, including Tim, Penny, CWebb, Howard, even JR ****ing Rider, etc. had AGENTS. If ever a player needed an agent...

I disagree that the market for him will be high. If it was, he'd be gone already. If teams don't even want you for cap space, you know there's a problem and I'm sure that's how Donnie's feeling now, as opposed to 3 months ago. Last year, you could make a good case that about 10 teams would consider taking that chance on Steph. Some execs even rationalized that Steph's problems were mostly due to the culture Isiah created and the NY media.

But now?

- While not everyone agrees with how they've handled this, Donnie Walsh and Mike D'Antoni are considered among the most player friendly people in the league.

- If the rumors are correct, not one single Knick had anything positive to say in the summer meetings about keeping him around and basically did him the same way they did Larry. Right or wrong, that hasn't been ignored. Guys have been disliked by teammates, but not unanimously. They basically said they couldn't play with the guy, let alone get along with him and the ones who didn't bash him were indifferent. That speaks volumes. Do you realize how rare that is? There's always at least one guy who gets along with the team malcontent. Not this time.

- He's a coach killer and not the winning, politically correct type of coach killer like Kidd. These days, coach killer means GM killer. There are very few coaches and/or GM's that can last if this thing blows up in their faces. Off the top, I'd say right now, only Miami, Orlando, Houston, Boston, Golden State, Portland, New Orleans, LA Lakers and San Antonio could withstand that unscathed and most of them either don't need him or don't want him.

- What has Steph ever won after Lincoln besides an All-Star game and a playoff game in San Antonio? There goes the typical "he can help us get over the hump" theory right out of the window. Has any player in professional sports ever made every single team he's been on better just by leaving? Shit is unheard of. lol

- He's ****ing crazy and the rumors about what he could possibly be on have been swirling around the league since before Mike'd Up. You can be aloof or crazy. You can't be both.

Someone will sign him because this is the NBA. But I doubt his phone is going to be ringing off the hook. Most teams who'd be interested want to see someone else take the chance first. Too bad he doesn't have an agent (other than Berman) to try and make his case to opposing teams and create a false bidding war like most agents of bought out players/malcontents do.
BlueSeats
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12/2/2008  4:55 PM
Posted by GallOfFame:
Posted by BlueSeats:

The advantage to buying him out is to save money and remove him as a distraction.

The advantage to exiling him is to keep him as a trading chip and to make him suffer.

Saving 1M means nothing to me, and the same goes for Dolan. Nor would I want to trade his contract. So it really boils down to, what's more important, releasing a distraction or extracting revenge.

I think there's an argument to be made that Marbury on another team, especially an eastern team, would still constitute a distraction here in NY. So that's something of a wash to. So it really boils down to whether it's worth a million dollars to Dolan to waste Marbury's career and the answer is yes, and I concur.

Thus, the perfect settlement has been found.



You think he's suffering from this but he isn't. I understand if you want to tell yourself this to make you feel good on the inside but Marbury is too stupid to hurt over the game basketball. Remember he's been telling us basketball isn't his life it's just a game. The dude was talking about playing in Italy last yr. I don't think his interest playing in the NBA is all that high, as long as he can maintain his current earnings.

I don't disagree with this at all. If he really cared about bball he'd have an agent, be staying in shape, play when invited to and take a buyout. Marbruy is about everything but hoops.

But if me saying Dolan wants to make him suffer is a hangup to you, feel free to substitute "a refusal to placate Marbury".
For all those who think this is damaging his future earnings, I doubt it's hurting him that much. He wasn't going to be anything more than an MLE player irregardless of the distractions. His monetary fate was locked in a while ago. If Tim Thomas a ultra underachiever can get an MLE deal, and sign with a Contender after being a malcontent in Chicago, then Marbury more than likely can do likewise. Teams are just waiting for him to become available.

[Edited by - GallOfFame on 12-02-2008 3:08 PM]

I don't know if "this" is damaging his future earnings, but if you don't think his earning potential has declined every year since he became a max player, you're nuts. His value is EXTREMELY low right now. No way he can sit home all season, demonstrating nothing but bullheaded intransigence, and expect a full MLE contract over the summer. Nobody is going to buy into this guy without a trial period.
The one or two teams (if any) willing to touch him with a 10 foot pole would want to rent him for the rest of the season to judge his sanity first hand. Without that he'll get lttle more than an LLE contract, or something really short term with team opt out contracts. Do not over estimate this guys value. He should head to Italy on the first available flight, if they even want him.

And Marbury and TT are very different people. Marbury is a once in a generation poison.
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