Posted by TMS:

MDA had the best possible line-up to win a Championship executing his style perfectly while with PHX

i guess there's no accounting for the fact that the Spurs had a guy named Tim Duncan playing in the same conference... Pat Riley had the perfect team to play the type of basketball he wanted to implement too... they didn't win a ring cuz some dudes named MJ & Olajuwon were around back then... does that make him a bad hire in your eyes? u can't hire coaches or acquire players w/any guarantees that a championship will be won... u lay the best plans u can & hope for the best... the plan for 2010 is just a plan, not a guarantee... u guys seem to want things signed sealed & delivered w/every single move we make, whether it be a coaching hire, a draft pick, a free agent signing or a trade... things don't work that way in the real world... the only thing u can do is form a logic behind the moves u make & u stick to a cohesive plan to try to position urself on a path towards success, whatever happens after that is beyond ur control.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-30-2008 2:38 PM]

Couldn't have said it any better my self......Van Gundy was a defensive god in the eyes of some, but his fingers are just as bare as D'Antoni's.....Holfresh should know this better than anyone because he argued the point that this is a players league first. I dont care what system you are trying to implement, you better have elite players if your going to win a chip. Bottom line, Tim Duncan was better than any player in a Sun uniform......D'Antoni did a masterful job with what he had in Phoe....It didnt help that his team got shafted with the Horry play. His defenseless Suns probably would have beaten the Spurs if not for that bad call on Horry/Nash/Stoudemire...

[Edited by - uptown on 11-30-2008 6:12 PM]

Posted by TMS:

MDA had the best possible line-up to win a Championship executing his style perfectly while with PHX

i guess there's no accounting for the fact that the Spurs had a guy named Tim Duncan playing in the same conference... Pat Riley had the perfect team to play the type of basketball he wanted to implement too... they didn't win a ring cuz some dudes named MJ & Olajuwon were around back then... does that make him a bad hire in your eyes? u can't hire coaches or acquire players w/any guarantees that a championship will be won... u lay the best plans u can & hope for the best... the plan for 2010 is just a plan, not a guarantee... u guys seem to want things signed sealed & delivered w/every single move we make, whether it be a coaching hire, a draft pick, a free agent signing or a trade... things don't work that way in the real world... the only thing u can do is form a logic behind the moves u make & u stick to a cohesive plan to try to position urself on a path towards success, whatever happens after that is beyond ur control.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-30-2008 2:38 PM]

well put, TMS.

Posted by Uptown:

Posted by TMS:

MDA had the best possible line-up to win a Championship executing his style perfectly while with PHX

i guess there's no accounting for the fact that the Spurs had a guy named Tim Duncan playing in the same conference... Pat Riley had the perfect team to play the type of basketball he wanted to implement too... they didn't win a ring cuz some dudes named MJ & Olajuwon were around back then... does that make him a bad hire in your eyes? u can't hire coaches or acquire players w/any guarantees that a championship will be won... u lay the best plans u can & hope for the best... the plan for 2010 is just a plan, not a guarantee... u guys seem to want things signed sealed & delivered w/every single move we make, whether it be a coaching hire, a draft pick, a free agent signing or a trade... things don't work that way in the real world... the only thing u can do is form a logic behind the moves u make & u stick to a cohesive plan to try to position urself on a path towards success, whatever happens after that is beyond ur control.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-30-2008 2:38 PM]

Couldn't have said it any better my self......Van Gundy was a defensive god in the eyes of some, but his fingers are just as bare as D'Antoni's.....Holfresh should know this better than anyone because he argued the point that this is a players league first. I dont care what system you are trying to implement, you better have elite players if your going to win a chip. Bottom line, Tim Duncan was better than any player in a Sun uniform......D'Antoni did a masterful job with what he had in Phoe....It didnt help that his team got shafted with the Horry play. His defenseless Suns probably would have beaten the Spurs if not for that bad call on Horry/Nash/Stoudemire...

[Edited by - uptown on 11-30-2008 6:12 PM]

You are correct in saying this is a players first league and systems means nothing...I on board with that fact...Jordan,Duncan etc...You are forgetting one thing tho...Their teams played defense...No matter how great you are, you better play D...

it's a lot easier to preach defense when u have players like MJ, Pippen, Grant, Rodman, Olajuwan, Duncan, Bowen, Thomas, etc. at your disposal... bring in a shotblocking demon like the Dream or Duncan in here & you will see a vast improvement in the way this team plays defense IMO.

Posted by holfresh:

Posted by Uptown:

Posted by TMS:

MDA had the best possible line-up to win a Championship executing his style perfectly while with PHX

i guess there's no accounting for the fact that the Spurs had a guy named Tim Duncan playing in the same conference... Pat Riley had the perfect team to play the type of basketball he wanted to implement too... they didn't win a ring cuz some dudes named MJ & Olajuwon were around back then... does that make him a bad hire in your eyes? u can't hire coaches or acquire players w/any guarantees that a championship will be won... u lay the best plans u can & hope for the best... the plan for 2010 is just a plan, not a guarantee... u guys seem to want things signed sealed & delivered w/every single move we make, whether it be a coaching hire, a draft pick, a free agent signing or a trade... things don't work that way in the real world... the only thing u can do is form a logic behind the moves u make & u stick to a cohesive plan to try to position urself on a path towards success, whatever happens after that is beyond ur control.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-30-2008 2:38 PM]

Couldn't have said it any better my self......Van Gundy was a defensive god in the eyes of some, but his fingers are just as bare as D'Antoni's.....Holfresh should know this better than anyone because he argued the point that this is a players league first. I dont care what system you are trying to implement, you better have elite players if your going to win a chip. Bottom line, Tim Duncan was better than any player in a Sun uniform......D'Antoni did a masterful job with what he had in Phoe....It didnt help that his team got shafted with the Horry play. His defenseless Suns probably would have beaten the Spurs if not for that bad call on Horry/Nash/Stoudemire...

[Edited by - uptown on 11-30-2008 6:12 PM]

You are correct in saying this is a players first league and systems means nothing...I on board with that fact...Jordan,Duncan etc...You are forgetting one thing tho...Their teams played defense...No matter how great you are, you better play D...

Jordan and Duncan are two of the best two way players in the history of the game. So again, you bring in the elite players, and our defense should improve. Dont get me wrong, its obvious you need a balance of defense and offense to be successful, and eventually, hopefully, we will get there. But again, you need the horses to win the race, and once we get some two-way players (Look how much better {Piecer looks playing D next to a great help defender like Garnett) we should improve.

D'Antoni's job in my eyes was to make the Knicks exciting again, make the Knicks competitive, and attract free agents. All while Walsh turns over the roster into a contender.

Anything else after he accomplishes those things would be extra to me. The hiring of D'Antoni was not about winning a championship. Even if D'Antoni doesn't win the Knicks a championship if he does all the things above I would be appreciative of the job he were to have done. As it is very hard to rebuild and compete at the same time. Not to mention his style is helpful to attract free agents.

Then after the Knicks have a contending roster we will see if D'Antoni can do some damage in the east. If he is then underachieving because we lack defensive then we will worry about it at that time. We are way to far down the road from that though. His style is necessary for this process right now though.

Posted by TMS:

MDA had the best possible line-up to win a Championship executing his style perfectly while with PHX

i guess there's no accounting for the fact that the Spurs had a guy named Tim Duncan playing in the same conference... Pat Riley had the perfect team to play the type of basketball he wanted to implement too... they didn't win a ring cuz some dudes named MJ & Olajuwon were around back then... does that make him a bad hire in your eyes? u can't hire coaches or acquire players w/any guarantees that a championship will be won... u lay the best plans u can & hope for the best... the plan for 2010 is just a plan, not a guarantee... u guys seem to want things signed sealed & delivered w/every single move we make, whether it be a coaching hire, a draft pick, a free agent signing or a trade... things don't work that way in the real world... the only thing u can do is form a logic behind the moves u make & u stick to a cohesive plan to try to position urself on a path towards success, whatever happens after that is beyond ur control.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-30-2008 2:38 PM]

excellent post man.. excellent!!

It's disappointing to see Knicks fans so smitten by a run and gun system that they disregard the importance of defense and attack Knicks fans who dare mention it.

Posted by islesfan:

It's disappointing to see Knicks fans so smitten by a run and gun system that they disregard the importance of defense and attack Knicks fans who dare mention it.

Defense is obviously important Isles, but what player on this team has ever played Defense before?

What player on the Suns is playing defense now that D'Antoni is gone? Nash doesn't. Amare doesn't. The only guy that ever did is Raja Bell. You have to get guys who can play defense and there isn't a ton of them out there.

Guys like Duncan, Jordan etc etc force other players to play defense. We need one of those guys.

[Edited by - nyk4ever on 11-30-2008 10:14 PM]

Posted by islesfan:

It's disappointing to see Knicks fans so smitten by a run and gun system that they disregard the importance of defense and attack Knicks fans who dare mention it.

I agree. I never considered myself a basketball purist, but maybe I am. I consider this brand of basketball gimmick basketball.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by islesfan:

Good defense starts with the head coach. If he doesn't teach and demand solid defense, his players won't do it.

Larry Brown preached & demanded defense... his players didn't do it.

Right, because Larry Brown's stint here was under optimal, hell even normal, conditions.

But why look at every other stop on Larry Brown's Hall of Fame resume when you can look at his record with this dysfunctional mess.