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TMS
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11/21/2008  5:37 PM
Posted by eViL:

Hate both these deals. Now I have to re-do the banner AGAIN! HAHA!!

Good moves Walsh!!

lol... whatever u do i do NOT wanna see Fugazy's face on there!
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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franco12
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11/21/2008  5:37 PM
Posted by fishmike:

you know what though? I dont think this changes our win total

MDA has a lot of firepower to work with and this team will be able to score.

Your right though.. the roster has been flipped. Next up, lets beef up Curry's numbers and send him packing.

Your right- The guys were getting back all fit MDA's approach much better than what went out the door.

The more I think about this, once the dust settles, assuming everyone stays healthy, we might be better!
islesfan
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11/21/2008  5:38 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

maybe you can rebuild in ny, but it is going to be a boring, depressing two years of basketball. at least there's a silver lining, but that doesn't change the fact that we are supposed to root for a ram shackle collection of mercenaries for two years.

No, you're rooting for kids who have a future with this team and the hope for a much brighter future. Don't waste your energy on any retreads brought in here. They're just an ends to a means.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
TMS
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11/21/2008  5:38 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by BlueSeats:

"You can't rebuild in NY."

That was the lamest excuse for supporting all the crap we endured from Marbury, Eddy, Isiah, et al.

No telling where we will end up, or how long it will take, but there are worse ways to bottom out than a rebuild, and we've tried them all.

Congratulations to Walsh, Dolan and D'.

And thank you Isiah for screwing the pooch so bad that there were no alternatives.

Now we have a chance.

finally our vision is being realized... it was a long time waiting dude... i'm willing to wait a couple years more to land the big fish at this point... now just sit back & enjoy our race for a high lottery pick in the draft this season.

Count me in. See how easy it was to get me on board again with this team? Just gut the mother****er.

man, this is what we shoulda done in 2003 like i said all along... now we can finally start to consider some REAL star calibre talent in the draft... this is freakin' awesome, i don't care how crappy this team has become.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
crzymdups
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11/21/2008  5:39 PM
Posted by islesfan:
Posted by crzymdups:

maybe you can rebuild in ny, but it is going to be a boring, depressing two years of basketball. at least there's a silver lining, but that doesn't change the fact that we are supposed to root for a ram shackle collection of mercenaries for two years.

No, you're rooting for kids who have a future with this team and the hope for a much brighter future. Don't waste your energy on any retreads brought in here. They're just an ends to a means.

who has a future with this team? wilson chandler?
¿ △ ?
BlueSeats
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11/21/2008  5:39 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by fishmike:

you know what though? I dont think this changes our win total

MDA has a lot of firepower to work with and this team will be able to score.

I agree. I'm not sure we didn't upgrade our talent.

I have to disagree. A bunch of garbage in the low post. Harrington is the forward version of Crawford. His replacement is 87-years-old. But I guess we have Tim Thomas's toughness to be thankful for.

I like Mobley better than Crawford. He's tougher and abetter defender. You'll have less 25 ppg manic streaks, but he's a more consistent performer when both sides of the floor are taken into account. Harrington and TT can do well in this system, and Harrington is a defensive upgrade from Zach. What we will lose are Zach's rebounds, but Lee and Lips will have to pick up the slack.

In the end, I think we lost a little glitz on the offensive end but made up for it with better defensive grind, at the same time as unburdening ourselves from suffocating contracts.

At the worst, I'm wrong and we lose a handful more games this year to better our odds in the draft. And, as a general rule, I think doing well in the draft is of even greater importance than free agency.

Which isn't to say this specific draft is more important than going for Lebron, I mean over the course of many years. But in this instance we could benefit on both ends of the equation.
islesfan
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11/21/2008  5:41 PM
Chandler, perhaps Lee. All other spots are open. Nate needs to go too. He's just a shorter Crawford.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
BlueSeats
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11/21/2008  5:41 PM
Posted by eViL:

Hate both these deals. Now I have to re-do the banner AGAIN! HAHA!!

I'd just go with Marbury and Isiah. Atthis rate they'll be here forever.
martin
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11/21/2008  5:43 PM
Posted by islesfan:

Chandler, perhaps Lee. All other spots are open. Nate needs to go too. He's just a shorter Crawford.

Perhaps you haven't watched Nate this year. He's good. Very good off-the-bench material.
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markvmc
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11/21/2008  5:44 PM
We lost two chuckers who don't play defense. How does this make us worse?
islesfan
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11/21/2008  5:46 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by islesfan:

Chandler, perhaps Lee. All other spots are open. Nate needs to go too. He's just a shorter Crawford.

Perhaps you haven't watched Nate this year. He's good. Very good off-the-bench material.

Admittedly, I haven't watched much this year. My interest waned tremendously. But Nate is going to want a sizable contract that will eat up cap space in 2010. His production can be replaced. Just like Crawfords will be.
If it didn’t work in Phoenix with Nash and Stoutamire... it’s just not a winning formula. It’s an entertaining formula, but not a winning one. - Derek Harper talking about D'Antoni's System
BlueSeats
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11/21/2008  5:48 PM
I'd take Nate over Crawford every time, but is he still a spit balling, lost-joy fool, or is he acting like a big boy now?
arkrud
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11/21/2008  5:50 PM
Posted by eViL:

Hate both these deals. Now I have to re-do the banner AGAIN! HAHA!!

Good moves Walsh!!

Put LeBron, Bosh and Wade on it.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." Hamlet
nixluva
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11/21/2008  5:53 PM
This team likely will improve once the new guys get some practice in. We didn't get much in the way of great team play from Jamal. If he was on, then he could go rogue and chuck up shots, but other than that he didn't give us anything else. Zach was a beast, but to be honest i can envision better PF's for this system and now we can look forward to a much more athletic team down the line.

When will the nay sayers and pessimists give up? MDA won't be able to get thru to these guys...WRONG! Walsh is clueless and hasn't made any good deals in years, he won't be able to get it done...WRONG! We'll have to give up prized possessions to get anything done...WRONG! We have no trade value, who would take any of these guys...WRONG! I honestly don't see how ANY knick fan can not be pleased with the idea of losing Jamal and Zach's huge contracts. This is the day we all hoped and dreamed for!!!!!!!!!! Raise your glass and celebrate the freedom.
eViL
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11/21/2008  6:02 PM
How's this?



check out my latest hip hop project: https://soundcloud.com/michaelcro http://youtu.be/scNXshrpyZo
SupremeCommander
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11/21/2008  6:03 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by fishmike:

you know what though? I dont think this changes our win total

MDA has a lot of firepower to work with and this team will be able to score.

I agree. I'm not sure we didn't upgrade our talent.

I have to disagree. A bunch of garbage in the low post. Harrington is the forward version of Crawford. His replacement is 87-years-old. But I guess we have Tim Thomas's toughness to be thankful for.

I like Mobley better than Crawford. He's tougher and abetter defender. You'll have less 25 ppg manic streaks, but he's a more consistent performer when both sides of the floor are taken into account. Harrington and TT can do well in this system, and Harrington is a defensive upgrade from Zach. What we will lose are Zach's rebounds, but Lee and Lips will have to pick up the slack.

In the end, I think we lost a little glitz on the offensive end but made up for it with better defensive grind, at the same time as unburdening ourselves from suffocating contracts.

At the worst, I'm wrong and we lose a handful more games this year to better our odds in the draft. And, as a general rule, I think doing well in the draft is of even greater importance than free agency.

Which isn't to say this specific draft is more important than going for Lebron, I mean over the course of many years. But in this instance we could benefit on both ends of the equation.

We'll see... Both Mobley and Harrington are sub-10's in efficiency ratings, meaning both are well below the league average, and both will have prominent roles on this team. Tim Thomas certainly won't be picking up the slack. Not to mention I have to root for him again. Ugh!

When you trade small for big, usually the small is the better player. For as average as Crawford is, I'd say he's better than Harrington. And when you do a 2 for 1 swap (Collins was only included so the Knicks didn't have to buy anyone out) there is a talent downgrade. I mean, who worries the other team? Crawford is average but he could go for 50. Randolph, despite his limitations, was still a 20-10 guy.

I see it as a downgrade. I don't want to. Especially because this is the New York Knicks for the next two years. But I do.
DLeethal wrote: Lol Rick needs a safe space
TMS
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11/21/2008  6:04 PM
Posted by eViL:

How's this?



lol... that's awesome dude... but u forget Mardy!
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Panos
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11/21/2008  6:10 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by fishmike:

you know what though? I dont think this changes our win total

MDA has a lot of firepower to work with and this team will be able to score.

I agree. I'm not sure we didn't upgrade our talent.

I have to disagree. A bunch of garbage in the low post. Harrington is the forward version of Crawford. His replacement is 87-years-old. But I guess we have Tim Thomas's toughness to be thankful for.

I like Mobley better than Crawford. He's tougher and abetter defender. You'll have less 25 ppg manic streaks, but he's a more consistent performer when both sides of the floor are taken into account. Harrington and TT can do well in this system, and Harrington is a defensive upgrade from Zach. What we will lose are Zach's rebounds, but Lee and Lips will have to pick up the slack.

In the end, I think we lost a little glitz on the offensive end but made up for it with better defensive grind, at the same time as unburdening ourselves from suffocating contracts.

At the worst, I'm wrong and we lose a handful more games this year to better our odds in the draft. And, as a general rule, I think doing well in the draft is of even greater importance than free agency.

Which isn't to say this specific draft is more important than going for Lebron, I mean over the course of many years. But in this instance we could benefit on both ends of the equation.

We'll see... Both Mobley and Harrington are sub-10's in efficiency ratings, meaning both are well below the league average, and both will have prominent roles on this team. Tim Thomas certainly won't be picking up the slack. Not to mention I have to root for him again. Ugh!

When you trade small for big, usually the small is the better player. For as average as Crawford is, I'd say he's better than Harrington. And when you do a 2 for 1 swap (Collins was only included so the Knicks didn't have to buy anyone out) there is a talent downgrade. I mean, who worries the other team? Crawford is average but he could go for 50. Randolph, despite his limitations, was still a 20-10 guy.

I see it as a downgrade. I don't want to. Especially because this is the New York Knicks for the next two years. But I do.


Here's a little upside for you SC.
Not only are these guys gone in 2010, but also they are shorter deals than the ones that went out the door which means they are commodities that can be moved again. The key has always been toward more flexibility, and I think we just achieved that a little.
BlueSeats
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11/21/2008  6:15 PM
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by SupremeCommander:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by fishmike:

you know what though? I dont think this changes our win total

MDA has a lot of firepower to work with and this team will be able to score.


I agree. I'm not sure we didn't upgrade our talent.

I have to disagree. A bunch of garbage in the low post. Harrington is the forward version of Crawford. His replacement is 87-years-old. But I guess we have Tim Thomas's toughness to be thankful for.

I like Mobley better than Crawford. He's tougher and abetter defender. You'll have less 25 ppg manic streaks, but he's a more consistent performer when both sides of the floor are taken into account. Harrington and TT can do well in this system, and Harrington is a defensive upgrade from Zach. What we will lose are Zach's rebounds, but Lee and Lips will have to pick up the slack.

In the end, I think we lost a little glitz on the offensive end but made up for it with better defensive grind, at the same time as unburdening ourselves from suffocating contracts.

At the worst, I'm wrong and we lose a handful more games this year to better our odds in the draft. And, as a general rule, I think doing well in the draft is of even greater importance than free agency.

Which isn't to say this specific draft is more important than going for Lebron, I mean over the course of many years. But in this instance we could benefit on both ends of the equation.

We'll see... Both Mobley and Harrington are sub-10's in efficiency ratings, meaning both are well below the league average, and both will have prominent roles on this team. Tim Thomas certainly won't be picking up the slack. Not to mention I have to root for him again. Ugh!

When you trade small for big, usually the small is the better player. For as average as Crawford is, I'd say he's better than Harrington. And when you do a 2 for 1 swap (Collins was only included so the Knicks didn't have to buy anyone out) there is a talent downgrade. I mean, who worries the other team? Crawford is average but he could go for 50. Randolph, despite his limitations, was still a 20-10 guy.

I see it as a downgrade. I don't want to. Especially because this is the New York Knicks for the next two years. But I do.

Let me just backtrack a little bit.
I'm not really even looking at it from a strictly talent for talent basis.
I just don't think it's going to set the team back much from a performance standpoint. It's not like anyone had established themselves in a go to role. We were still just a bunch of guys
running around enough to get open looks.

But we have to give it a couple of weeks for the new guys to acclimate before we know for sure.
sebstar
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11/21/2008  6:18 PM
Its all semantics, you dont have to apply any definition to anything, you just have to make good executive decisions.

I mean the Bulls and Hawks were in lottery purgatory for years because their moves didnt pan out. "rebuilding" the way you're defining it isnt foolproof.

Right now its a must given the cap ramifications and who's available in 2010, but I tell you this: If Zeke had drafted Bynum instead of Frye, didnt trade for Curry, and didnt trade for Francis we wouldnt be having this conversation.

Zeke just made bad moves that crippled us. Thats the bottom line.

[Edited by - sebstar on 11-21-2008 6:57 PM]
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