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Steph needs to take a serious look in the mirror if
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4949
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11/17/2008  11:03 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Hey Im not saying we should play Marbury. Im talking about when Marbury was younger.

I also am not going to put the blame of Brown & Isiah departure (I should say) strictly on Marbury. Marbury was a problem but they also made there own beds.

[Edited by - newyorknewyork on 11-17-2008 10:48 PM]

Marbury was' their bed.
I'll never trust this' team again.
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11/17/2008  11:20 PM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Hey Im not saying we should play Marbury. Im talking about when Marbury was younger.

I also am not going to put the blame of Brown & Isiah departure (I should say) strictly on Marbury. Marbury was a problem but they also made there own beds.

[Edited by - newyorknewyork on 11-17-2008 10:48 PM]

Marbury was' their bed.

Bad boy. Now go to your room and no dessert for you.
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4949
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11/17/2008  11:23 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:
Posted by 4949:
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Hey Im not saying we should play Marbury. Im talking about when Marbury was younger.

I also am not going to put the blame of Brown & Isiah departure (I should say) strictly on Marbury. Marbury was a problem but they also made there own beds.

[Edited by - newyorknewyork on 11-17-2008 10:48 PM]

Marbury was' their bed.

Bad boy. Now go to your room and no dessert for you.

I'll never trust this' team again.
Knicksfan
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11/17/2008  11:26 PM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by Knicksfan:
Posted by 4949:
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Hey Im not saying we should play Marbury. Im talking about when Marbury was younger.

I also am not going to put the blame of Brown & Isiah departure (I should say) strictly on Marbury. Marbury was a problem but they also made there own beds.

[Edited by - newyorknewyork on 11-17-2008 10:48 PM]

Marbury was' their bed.

Bad boy. Now go to your room and no dessert for you.


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MS
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11/17/2008  11:31 PM
I think as usual we fail to look at the situation. Crawford always gets a pass no matter what. Jamal has been so so to start the season and is still taking the same stupid selfish shots. Everyone is all happy, as am I with the start but we have been playing garbage squads and we fail to realize we actually have talent. Steph was not playing last year when we were terrible, Jamal was and he was taking a majority of the shots. The real reason this team is improving is because we have a coach who knows something about the game. isiah knew nothing about the game, debate it all you want, but he was a disgraceful game manager, who couldn't put together a rotation. Just because you can play doesn't make you knowledgeable about the game.

The knicks are playing better for one reason, Eddy Curry is not in the lineup. Zach is effective and we can put Wilson and Lee out there for big minutes two guys that are not high turnover players and two guys that attack the glass and are active.

This is not a direct result of steph not playing, although Duhon has been very solid. But let's not forget Jamal, before we kill steph.
MS
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11/17/2008  11:31 PM
I think as usual we fail to look at the situation. Crawford always gets a pass no matter what. Jamal has been so so to start the season and is still taking the same stupid selfish shots. Everyone is all happy, as am I with the start but we have been playing garbage squads and we fail to realize we actually have talent. Steph was not playing last year when we were terrible, Jamal was and he was taking a majority of the shots. The real reason this team is improving is because we have a coach who knows something about the game. isiah knew nothing about the game, debate it all you want, but he was a disgraceful game manager, who couldn't put together a rotation. Just because you can play doesn't make you knowledgeable about the game.

The knicks are playing better for one reason, Eddy Curry is not in the lineup. Zach is effective and we can put Wilson and Lee out there for big minutes two guys that are not high turnover players and two guys that attack the glass and are active.

This is not a direct result of steph not playing, although Duhon has been very solid. But let's not forget Jamal, before we kill steph.
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11/17/2008  11:34 PM
Posted by TMS:

personally i think the sooner we stop seeing comparisons being made of Marbury to an alltime great HOFer like Iverson, the better.

Its not just about Marbury, its a lesson for all shoot first type of guards. Take Marbury's name out of the equation.

Iverson went to the finals as a starting SG. He was allowed to play to his strength, Snow ran the offense. Mckie was a 6'5 guard with PG skills. Iverson was free to float between PG & SG. Vs bigger matchup problems for Iverson. Mckie was able to slide in and Iverson was able to move to PG but still had free rain to shoot while Mckie ran the offense.

All Iverson's weaknesses were cover'd he was free to be the unstoppable scorer he was. The result was playoffs and a trip to the finals. IMO if Snow & Mckie were shoot first type of guards with poor defensive ability then while Iverson would have still put up #s. He wouldn't have been as successful.

Thats why even though Larry Hughes was way more talented then Mckie Brown had to trade him away as at that time he wanted to shoot first. He wasn't a good fit. Balance is just as important as talent.
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11/17/2008  11:35 PM
Craw has mostly been great so far. Yeah, last night he sucked and played horribly, and from time to time he has made bad decisions, but mostly has had some improvement in his shot selection. Not THAT MUCH, but some as he and everybody else adapts to the system. I still believe he isn't the answer at 2 on a contender, but he hasn't been terrible.
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newyorknewyork
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11/17/2008  11:37 PM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Hey Im not saying we should play Marbury. Im talking about when Marbury was younger.

I also am not going to put the blame of Brown & Isiah departure (I should say) strictly on Marbury. Marbury was a problem but they also made there own beds.

[Edited by - newyorknewyork on 11-17-2008 10:48 PM]

Marbury was' their bed.

Steve Francis was Brown's bed. Marbury, Curry, Randolph was Isiah's bed.
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newyorknewyork
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11/17/2008  11:37 PM
Anyone watching the Browns vs Bills game right now?? Great game
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4949
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11/17/2008  11:50 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by 4949:
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Hey Im not saying we should play Marbury. Im talking about when Marbury was younger.

I also am not going to put the blame of Brown & Isiah departure (I should say) strictly on Marbury. Marbury was a problem but they also made there own beds.

[Edited by - newyorknewyork on 11-17-2008 10:48 PM]

Marbury was' their bed.

Steve Francis was Brown's bed. Marbury, Curry, Randolph was Isiah's bed.

Marbury tried to make D'Antoni his new bed, but didn't know there was a sharp spring waiting to stab him. That's one nasty bed if you's ask me. Right now, dolan is trying to make Isiah into his next bed and out. I think Donnie has to make Marbury his bed now.
I'll never trust this' team again.
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11/17/2008  11:58 PM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by 4949:
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Hey Im not saying we should play Marbury. Im talking about when Marbury was younger.

I also am not going to put the blame of Brown & Isiah departure (I should say) strictly on Marbury. Marbury was a problem but they also made there own beds.

[Edited by - newyorknewyork on 11-17-2008 10:48 PM]

Marbury was' their bed.

Steve Francis was Brown's bed. Marbury, Curry, Randolph was Isiah's bed.

Marbury tried to make D'Antoni his new bed, but didn't know there was a sharp spring waiting to stab him. That's one nasty bed if you's ask me. Right now, dolan is trying to make Isiah into his next bed and out. I think Donnie has to make Marbury his bed now.

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11/18/2008  12:02 AM
Posted by newyorknewyork:
Posted by TMS:

personally i think the sooner we stop seeing comparisons being made of Marbury to an alltime great HOFer like Iverson, the better.

Its not just about Marbury, its a lesson for all shoot first type of guards. Take Marbury's name out of the equation.

Iverson went to the finals as a starting SG. He was allowed to play to his strength, Snow ran the offense. Mckie was a 6'5 guard with PG skills. Iverson was free to float between PG & SG. Vs bigger matchup problems for Iverson. Mckie was able to slide in and Iverson was able to move to PG but still had free rain to shoot while Mckie ran the offense.

All Iverson's weaknesses were cover'd he was free to be the unstoppable scorer he was. The result was playoffs and a trip to the finals. IMO if Snow & Mckie were shoot first type of guards with poor defensive ability then while Iverson would have still put up #s. He wouldn't have been as successful.

Thats why even though Larry Hughes was way more talented then Mckie Brown had to trade him away as at that time he wanted to shoot first. He wasn't a good fit. Balance is just as important as talent.

i agree, a lot has to do w/balance, but Iverson's just in another league talent wise... u can afford to put role players like Snow & McKie alongside him & still win games... u can't do that w/Marbs, as we all saw the past few years... u put Iverson on the same team w/Amare, Marion, Joe Johnson & Penny before he was washed up & there's no way that team doesn't win a title IMO... same goes if u put Iverson next to KG, cuz Iverson wouldn't have forced his way out of a situation like that... Iverson's been wanting to play alongside other studs like that his entire career, unlike Steph who forced his way out of that situation because he didn't want to share in the limelight & knew he could never land a KG like contract if he stayed where he was... yeah, Melo's a young stud in his own right & Camby's a great defensive player, but his time in DEN was spent later in his career & the way George Karl had that team playing they placed zero emphasis on playing defense at all.

i just don't get why Iverson & Marbs are mentioned in so many comparisons around here (not singling you out bro)... to me, Iverson is just so much better in every facet of the game & i'm not even talking about Dinglebury's delusions of grandeur personality either.
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newyorknewyork
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11/18/2008  1:11 AM
I agree with you. I don't think Marbury had the character traits to win titles. But I think he could have been more successful when he was younger if he wasn't relied upon to be the primary pg. And was freed to do what he does best while his back court teammates cover'd his weakness.

I agree with you on KG. I think Iverson & KG would have been perfect for each other.

I don't think he would have worked out as well with Marion & Johnson & Amare though. To many players that like to score. They might have swallowed there pride since Iverson is way more clutch then Marbury and would have lead them to more wins then Marbury and winning cures all. But I don't know if they would have done any better then what Nash did with them as he was perfect for them.
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11/18/2008  1:58 AM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

I agree with you. I don't think Marbury had the character traits to win titles. But I think he could have been more successful when he was younger if he wasn't relied upon to be the primary pg. And was freed to do what he does best while his back court teammates cover'd his weakness.


How good of a SG is Marbury? He's small for the position, not a great outside shooter and he likes to work off the dribble at the top of the key where he can go right every time. When Marbury doesn't get the best of his man with his first step, which happens less and less these days, he doesn't have that much to offer.
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11/18/2008  12:57 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by newyorknewyork:

I agree with you. I don't think Marbury had the character traits to win titles. But I think he could have been more successful when he was younger if he wasn't relied upon to be the primary pg. And was freed to do what he does best while his back court teammates cover'd his weakness.


How good of a SG is Marbury? He's small for the position, not a great outside shooter and he likes to work off the dribble at the top of the key where he can go right every time. When Marbury doesn't get the best of his man with his first step, which happens less and less these days, he doesn't have that much to offer.

I am generally speaking about when he was younger. I wouldn't want to regulate him to a position like PG or SG. I would just want him to do what he does best. Play the 2 man game with the PF.
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11/18/2008  1:03 PM
Stephon could have done 2 simple things to help catupalt him into the hall of fame, and they both involve his ego.

1) He could have admitted that he needs a pg and that he's NOT a pg, so he could work off the ball and he'd have another leader to run the offense.

2) He could have simply learned to be a leader and know how to run the offense. Therefore, he could be what Stephon Marbury always was AND Jason Kidd. He had that much ability.

Now we're talking about how he's limited to a 2 man game with a power foward, which is real sad. Stephon Marbury, nobody but Elite feels sorry for you.
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newyorknewyork
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11/18/2008  1:32 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:

Stephon could have done 2 simple things to help catupalt him into the hall of fame, and they both involve his ego.

1) He could have admitted that he needs a pg and that he's NOT a pg, so he could work off the ball and he'd have another leader to run the offense.

2) He could have simply learned to be a leader and know how to run the offense. Therefore, he could be what Stephon Marbury always was AND Jason Kidd. He had that much ability.

Now we're talking about how he's limited to a 2 man game with a power foward, which is real sad. Stephon Marbury, nobody but Elite feels sorry for you.

You can't learn to be a leader though, either you have it or you don't. While admitting that he needed a PG would have been huge for him in many ways as it would have shown him to be humble. I don't believe that was Marbury's type of thought process. Can I judge him for not being the type of person that thinks that way?

I also believe that coaches and gms(*if* they didn't) should have been looking to do that no matter what Marbury thought. Not that its there fault for his lack of success, im just saying. If limiting him to a 2man game might help you win more games then giving Marbury the keys to the franchise and hoping that he steps up. I don't think its sad, I think it would have been pretty smart. I believe its maximizing a players skills while trying to hide his weaknesses.
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11/18/2008  11:41 PM
I think his spirit has something to do with it as well. Even after breaking it down stat wise, and looking at the talent around- which he has had some- you get a feeling that even when he does good it's still something negative in the air. sounds crazy but I got to believe he has bad karma all over him.
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11/19/2008  10:14 AM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

You can't learn to be a leader though, either you have it or you don't. While admitting that he needed a PG would have been huge for him in many ways as it would have shown him to be humble. I don't believe that was Marbury's type of thought process. Can I judge him for not being the type of person that thinks that way?

I disagree, people can definitely learn how to be leaders, but like learning anything, that is dependent on how much you want it and where you are coming from as your starting point. I'd just argue that he just didn't have enough of a desire to develop those skills, and too much in his personality to overcome in order to get there.
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Steph needs to take a serious look in the mirror if
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