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2009 Free agent class
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nyk4ever
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11/13/2008  3:40 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

Randolph is starting to get minutes. While he is shooting the ball consistently he has average nearly 8 rebounds and 2 blocks. Now that's nice.

I like Randolph. He was the main guy I wanted at the 6 slot (after Westbrook was selected 4th.) When we chose Gallinari, I wasn't mad, but I still wanted Randolph instead. As long as AR puts some muscle on, he's going to have a nice career, he can literally do it all and I still think he's a Bosh v2.0
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
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nysportsfan11
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11/13/2008  3:53 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by nysportsfan11:

Booze will very likely opt out. Even Deron has publicly hinted at it. His wife wants to go to Miami. She's the reason he's not LeBron's wing man right now. The family lives in Miami during the offseason and Riley is desperate to do anything to keep Wade from looking at Derrick Rose too hard.

Crawford is highly unlikely and damn near impossible. He loves NY, loves being in a big market and plays the easiest to fill position in the league. The free agent market won't bear what he thinks he's worth (at least not when teams are gearing up for Summer '10), the Knicks have padlocked the checkbook so he's not going to get a raise by opting out and he's definitely not leaving money on the table.



Jamal Crawford os a lock to opt out--think about. This is his last big contract--Jamal knows it--his agent knows it and if he plays 20 points 4-5 a 3 reb he is going to get 6 yrs 54 mm at a minimum but more like 60mm. Who cares about the 20--the 20 is there in case of injury this year.

Oh yeah how is your new Dwayne Wade doing? Good player not even close to wade. I knew Mcgee would be the steal of the draft

Who's "my new Wade"? I've known McGee since he was 9. His mother doesn't get half the credit she deserves for his development.

Anyway, Jamal has no financial incentive to opt out. His reputation around the league is basically, "He is who he is, and that's a one dimensional 28 year old." It makes no financial sense for a 2-guard to opt out in a year where most teams with cap space are looking to hold off for better players who play your position next year. It makes no financial sense to opt out in a year when your own team is not going to offer you a long term deal for more money. Jamal is not Kobe. He'd be better served playing out his contract. Again, he plays the easiest position in the league to fill and he's not in the upper echelon of said position. Unless Donnie somehow trades him, he'd be better served waiting and signing with a team that either missed out on a better player or is looking for a missing piece to put them over the hump.

The only reason Jamal Crawford or any other 2nd tier player with any sense would opt out is the fear of the new Collective Bargaining Agreement that will likely be extremely owner friendly because second tier players have the most to lose. Not because Jamal Crawford is getting $60 mil out of anyone.
crzymdups
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11/13/2008  4:03 PM
realistically, if the economy keeps going as is, i can see the free agent market next summer being pretty drastically afftected by it.
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BRIGGS
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11/13/2008  5:18 PM
Posted by nysportsfan11:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by nysportsfan11:

Booze will very likely opt out. Even Deron has publicly hinted at it. His wife wants to go to Miami. She's the reason he's not LeBron's wing man right now. The family lives in Miami during the offseason and Riley is desperate to do anything to keep Wade from looking at Derrick Rose too hard.

Crawford is highly unlikely and damn near impossible. He loves NY, loves being in a big market and plays the easiest to fill position in the league. The free agent market won't bear what he thinks he's worth (at least not when teams are gearing up for Summer '10), the Knicks have padlocked the checkbook so he's not going to get a raise by opting out and he's definitely not leaving money on the table.



Jamal Crawford os a lock to opt out--think about. This is his last big contract--Jamal knows it--his agent knows it and if he plays 20 points 4-5 a 3 reb he is going to get 6 yrs 54 mm at a minimum but more like 60mm. Who cares about the 20--the 20 is there in case of injury this year.

Oh yeah how is your new Dwayne Wade doing? Good player not even close to wade. I knew Mcgee would be the steal of the draft

Who's "my new Wade"? I've known McGee since he was 9. His mother doesn't get half the credit she deserves for his development.

Anyway, Jamal has no financial incentive to opt out. His reputation around the league is basically, "He is who he is, and that's a one dimensional 28 year old." It makes no financial sense for a 2-guard to opt out in a year where most teams with cap space are looking to hold off for better players who play your position next year. It makes no financial sense to opt out in a year when your own team is not going to offer you a long term deal for more money. Jamal is not Kobe. He'd be better served playing out his contract. Again, he plays the easiest position in the league to fill and he's not in the upper echelon of said position. Unless Donnie somehow trades him, he'd be better served waiting and signing with a team that either missed out on a better player or is looking for a missing piece to put them over the hump.

The only reason Jamal Crawford or any other 2nd tier player with any sense would opt out is the fear of the new Collective Bargaining Agreement that will likely be extremely owner friendly because second tier players have the most to lose. Not because Jamal Crawford is getting $60 mil out of anyone.

Unless the cap drops below 35 mm and max contracts look like MLE's Jamal is a lock unless injured to opt out. I would bet 1mm $ to your 500K if the cap stays even close to what it is and Jamal is *healthy* he will opt out. Anyone at his age with his skill level in his prime would be CRAZY not to. Kobe will be 32 and he will opt out of 23mm per--its a done deal--think about what you are saying. Players who are old enough to be in the prime and receive a new 6 yr contract WILL opt out.
Even if someone gave Jamal 50mm over 6--he would opt out---why--he is GUARANTEED 30mm$$$$$$$ more than he is now.
RIP Crushalot😞
TMS
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11/13/2008  7:37 PM
ain't no way we'll be under the cap next year unless we dump Zach, Jefferies & Curry this season for expirings & don't extend Lee or Nate... we still have Q Rich, Turd & Jamal on the hook for $30 mil alone plus u gotta factor in the salaries of Chandler, Gallo, Mardy & Duhon which brings the total up to about $40 mil... add in a big contract to that total & it doesn't leave u w/much leftover, u could maybe squeeze in either Lee or Nate on an extension i suppose, but u're still gonna have to dump at least 3 bad contracts right now to have any shot of getting under the cap for next season.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-13-2008 4:37 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
nysportsfan11
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11/13/2008  8:46 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by nysportsfan11:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by nysportsfan11:

Booze will very likely opt out. Even Deron has publicly hinted at it. His wife wants to go to Miami. She's the reason he's not LeBron's wing man right now. The family lives in Miami during the offseason and Riley is desperate to do anything to keep Wade from looking at Derrick Rose too hard.

Crawford is highly unlikely and damn near impossible. He loves NY, loves being in a big market and plays the easiest to fill position in the league. The free agent market won't bear what he thinks he's worth (at least not when teams are gearing up for Summer '10), the Knicks have padlocked the checkbook so he's not going to get a raise by opting out and he's definitely not leaving money on the table.



Jamal Crawford os a lock to opt out--think about. This is his last big contract--Jamal knows it--his agent knows it and if he plays 20 points 4-5 a 3 reb he is going to get 6 yrs 54 mm at a minimum but more like 60mm. Who cares about the 20--the 20 is there in case of injury this year.

Oh yeah how is your new Dwayne Wade doing? Good player not even close to wade. I knew Mcgee would be the steal of the draft

Who's "my new Wade"? I've known McGee since he was 9. His mother doesn't get half the credit she deserves for his development.

Anyway, Jamal has no financial incentive to opt out. His reputation around the league is basically, "He is who he is, and that's a one dimensional 28 year old." It makes no financial sense for a 2-guard to opt out in a year where most teams with cap space are looking to hold off for better players who play your position next year. It makes no financial sense to opt out in a year when your own team is not going to offer you a long term deal for more money. Jamal is not Kobe. He'd be better served playing out his contract. Again, he plays the easiest position in the league to fill and he's not in the upper echelon of said position. Unless Donnie somehow trades him, he'd be better served waiting and signing with a team that either missed out on a better player or is looking for a missing piece to put them over the hump.

The only reason Jamal Crawford or any other 2nd tier player with any sense would opt out is the fear of the new Collective Bargaining Agreement that will likely be extremely owner friendly because second tier players have the most to lose. Not because Jamal Crawford is getting $60 mil out of anyone.

Unless the cap drops below 35 mm and max contracts look like MLE's Jamal is a lock unless injured to opt out. I would bet 1mm $ to your 500K if the cap stays even close to what it is and Jamal is *healthy* he will opt out. Anyone at his age with his skill level in his prime would be CRAZY not to. Kobe will be 32 and he will opt out of 23mm per--its a done deal--think about what you are saying. Players who are old enough to be in the prime and receive a new 6 yr contract WILL opt out.
Even if someone gave Jamal 50mm over 6--he would opt out---why--he is GUARANTEED 30mm$$$$$$$ more than he is now.

You opt out:

A) to get more money from your current team
B) to get out of a small market or undesirable situation
C) because you're not a max player and know for a fact you can get more security somewhere else

Who is giving Jamal Crawford $50 mil over 6 years? The same Jamal Crawford who will be 29 by the end of the season? You do realize every GM except Isiah (and including Walsh) believed he was overpaid as it is right? His deal was laughed at almost as much as giving up unprotected lottery picks for a fat gymnast with a bad heart. You do realize he plays the 2 (a position that can easily be replaced), has never played defense and is regarded as a good player on a bad team who's never made the playoffs right?

NBA GM's are not Knick fans and are not Isiah. No one is paying Jamal $8-10 mil at 34/35. No one is paying Jamal Crawford $50 mil the year before the free agents they really want are up for grabs, even if they don't have a chance in hell at getting a Wade, etc. He'd be far better served upping his value, playing out his deal and signing a 3 year deal with a team that loses out in '10. Or, getting re-signed by a Knick team that will be in the same position AFTER '10.

Jamal Crawford is a 2nd tier player, if not 3rd tier. Jamal is not Kobe. Kobe is opting out because he can get more money with the Lakers and should he want to go somewhere else, he can damn near pick the spot. Kobe is in a **** you position. Crawford is in no such position. Not even by a long shot. If he opts out and encounters an owner's market, or a bunch of ****ty small market teams no one wants to play for, he has nothing to fall back on because the Knicks won't re-sign him, preparing for '10.
BRIGGS
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11/13/2008  9:56 PM
Posted by nysportsfan11:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by nysportsfan11:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by nysportsfan11:

Booze will very likely opt out. Even Deron has publicly hinted at it. His wife wants to go to Miami. She's the reason he's not LeBron's wing man right now. The family lives in Miami during the offseason and Riley is desperate to do anything to keep Wade from looking at Derrick Rose too hard.

Crawford is highly unlikely and damn near impossible. He loves NY, loves being in a big market and plays the easiest to fill position in the league. The free agent market won't bear what he thinks he's worth (at least not when teams are gearing up for Summer '10), the Knicks have padlocked the checkbook so he's not going to get a raise by opting out and he's definitely not leaving money on the table.



Jamal Crawford os a lock to opt out--think about. This is his last big contract--Jamal knows it--his agent knows it and if he plays 20 points 4-5 a 3 reb he is going to get 6 yrs 54 mm at a minimum but more like 60mm. Who cares about the 20--the 20 is there in case of injury this year.

Oh yeah how is your new Dwayne Wade doing? Good player not even close to wade. I knew Mcgee would be the steal of the draft

Who's "my new Wade"? I've known McGee since he was 9. His mother doesn't get half the credit she deserves for his development.

Anyway, Jamal has no financial incentive to opt out. His reputation around the league is basically, "He is who he is, and that's a one dimensional 28 year old." It makes no financial sense for a 2-guard to opt out in a year where most teams with cap space are looking to hold off for better players who play your position next year. It makes no financial sense to opt out in a year when your own team is not going to offer you a long term deal for more money. Jamal is not Kobe. He'd be better served playing out his contract. Again, he plays the easiest position in the league to fill and he's not in the upper echelon of said position. Unless Donnie somehow trades him, he'd be better served waiting and signing with a team that either missed out on a better player or is looking for a missing piece to put them over the hump.

The only reason Jamal Crawford or any other 2nd tier player with any sense would opt out is the fear of the new Collective Bargaining Agreement that will likely be extremely owner friendly because second tier players have the most to lose. Not because Jamal Crawford is getting $60 mil out of anyone.

Unless the cap drops below 35 mm and max contracts look like MLE's Jamal is a lock unless injured to opt out. I would bet 1mm $ to your 500K if the cap stays even close to what it is and Jamal is *healthy* he will opt out. Anyone at his age with his skill level in his prime would be CRAZY not to. Kobe will be 32 and he will opt out of 23mm per--its a done deal--think about what you are saying. Players who are old enough to be in the prime and receive a new 6 yr contract WILL opt out.
Even if someone gave Jamal 50mm over 6--he would opt out---why--he is GUARANTEED 30mm$$$$$$$ more than he is now.

You opt out:

A) to get more money from your current team
B) to get out of a small market or undesirable situation
C) because you're not a max player and know for a fact you can get more security somewhere else

Who is giving Jamal Crawford $50 mil over 6 years? The same Jamal Crawford who will be 29 by the end of the season? You do realize every GM except Isiah (and including Walsh) believed he was overpaid as it is right? His deal was laughed at almost as much as giving up unprotected lottery picks for a fat gymnast with a bad heart. You do realize he plays the 2 (a position that can easily be replaced), has never played defense and is regarded as a good player on a bad team who's never made the playoffs right?

NBA GM's are not Knick fans and are not Isiah. No one is paying Jamal $8-10 mil at 34/35. No one is paying Jamal Crawford $50 mil the year before the free agents they really want are up for grabs, even if they don't have a chance in hell at getting a Wade, etc. He'd be far better served upping his value, playing out his deal and signing a 3 year deal with a team that loses out in '10. Or, getting re-signed by a Knick team that will be in the same position AFTER '10.

Jamal Crawford is a 2nd tier player, if not 3rd tier. Jamal is not Kobe. Kobe is opting out because he can get more money with the Lakers and should he want to go somewhere else, he can damn near pick the spot. Kobe is in a **** you position. Crawford is in no such position. Not even by a long shot. If he opts out and encounters an owner's market, or a bunch of ****ty small market teams no one wants to play for, he has nothing to fall back on because the Knicks won't re-sign him, preparing for '10.

You're going way overboard and not thinking about it in basic terms---as an agent can I get more than 20mm$ for Jamal Crawford at the end of this season--answer mo money mo money mo money. There is no other answer--of course Jamal is worth 8-9mm per year and of course Jamal is going to get 8-10mm per ---he will opt out --- there is NO doubt that he will be able to get MORE than 20mm guaranteed. As an agent that is his fiduciary responsibility to Jamal--mo money---this is his big year Jamal knows it his agent knows it--it's his last chance for a huge contract and he will easily give up 20 for 48-60mm

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 11-13-2008 9:59 PM]
RIP Crushalot😞
TMS
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11/13/2008  11:22 PM
i'm sorry but if Rashard Lewis is getting paid $100 mil over the next 5 years, then Jamal is a steal at $27 mil per over the next 3.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
kam77
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11/14/2008  1:07 AM
Posted by TMS:

ain't no way we'll be under the cap next year unless we dump Zach, Jefferies & Curry this season for expirings & don't extend Lee or Nate... we still have Q Rich, Turd & Jamal on the hook for $30 mil alone plus u gotta factor in the salaries of Chandler, Gallo, Mardy & Duhon which brings the total up to about $40 mil... add in a big contract to that total & it doesn't leave u w/much leftover, u could maybe squeeze in either Lee or Nate on an extension i suppose, but u're still gonna have to dump at least 3 bad contracts right now to have any shot of getting under the cap for next season.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-13-2008 4:37 PM]

I am quite stunned how the average fan here doesn't know the reality of our cap situation. Martin and Andrew need to do something about this.
lol @ being BANNED by Martin since 11/07/10 (for asking if Mr. Earl had a point). Really, Martin? C'mon. This is the internet. I've seen much worse on this site. By Earl himself. Drop the hypocrisy.
Pharzeone
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11/14/2008  1:08 AM
Posted by TMS:

i'm sorry but if Rashard Lewis is getting paid $100 mil over the next 5 years, then Jamal is a steal at $27 mil per over the next 3.

Just because your friend eats glass doesn't mean you have to do it.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
TMS
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11/14/2008  1:21 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by TMS:

i'm sorry but if Rashard Lewis is getting paid $100 mil over the next 5 years, then Jamal is a steal at $27 mil per over the next 3.

Just because your friend eats glass doesn't mean you have to do it.

how many other 20 pt. 5 assist players in the NBA make less than Jamal? my guess is there aren't that many other than guys on their rookie contracts.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Pharzeone
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11/14/2008  1:53 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by TMS:

i'm sorry but if Rashard Lewis is getting paid $100 mil over the next 5 years, then Jamal is a steal at $27 mil per over the next 3.

Just because your friend eats glass doesn't mean you have to do it.

how many other 20 pt. 5 assist players in the NBA make less than Jamal? my guess is there aren't that many other than guys on their rookie contracts.

Stephen Jackson and Ron Artest are players that are a notch above Crawford and I think they make less than Jamal. I need to check that out but I thought they were among the most reasonable contracts in the NBA.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
TMS
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11/14/2008  2:02 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by TMS:

i'm sorry but if Rashard Lewis is getting paid $100 mil over the next 5 years, then Jamal is a steal at $27 mil per over the next 3.

Just because your friend eats glass doesn't mean you have to do it.

how many other 20 pt. 5 assist players in the NBA make less than Jamal? my guess is there aren't that many other than guys on their rookie contracts.

Stephen Jackson and Ron Artest are players that are a notch above Crawford and I think they make less than Jamal. I need to check that out but I thought they were among the most reasonable contracts in the NBA.

there's no doubt those guys are paid well BELOW their actual value, but ur argument is that Jamal is grossly overpaid... i still don't see how u've proven ur point here... consider guys like Raja Bell who many around here think is signed to very reasonable dollars is only making $2 mil less than Jamal & yet he's only putting up 10 & 1 this season & i think it's fair to say that Jamal is making at least what he's worth on the open market right now... yes, i realize Bell plays defense but he would never be able to carry the load on offense the way Jamal has for this team.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Pharzeone
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11/14/2008  2:12 AM
Ok, I see your point. Based on what they are giving these guys now and what Jamal has done last season and so far, I think he is fairly compensated. So on his option year it would be $9 and then $10. If he opts out, what are you prepared to do to ensure that your 2010 plan is viable with everything being equal that means that Curry isn't opting out and still here and you have not found any takers for Randolph yet. I just check out Jamal's stat lines so far this season and they are all-star type numbers so I can't complain about his current salary.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
TMS
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11/14/2008  2:25 AM
if we wait til Jamal opts out it will be too late to do anything, which is why i'm advocating to trade him now for a 1st round pick & an expiring if we can... i really think this year's draft is filled w/some nice talent & i am not averse to taking a step back in terms of development at the NBA level in order to set ourselves up for future flexibility... the only way i would sign Jamal to an extension is if we first dumped Curry & Fishlips for expirings next season, otherwise i'd just take the cap savings & target someone w/the MLE for next season to help fill his role on the squad

i think it's very likely that Jamal will opt out after this season because next year's FA crop isn't all that deep... if he waits til 2010 when his contract expires there will be less of a market for him to make his money cuz the FA class is deep that year... of course, if the Knicks are still capped out by then, which is still very likely considering we haven't done anything to unload cap that year as of yet, then his best option might be just to stay in NY & re-sign at a raise on a Bird exception... that would probably be his best case scenario since the Knicks would have very few options to do much of anything if they're still capped out by then.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-13-2008 11:26 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Pharzeone
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11/14/2008  2:48 AM
You know the funny thing I can't think of a team off the top of my head that 2 guard is a major concern for them right now or have the luxury of signing him for more than what he is making now. Maybe the Hornets? I thought the CBA prevented a player from using the Bird Exception if he opts out of his contract. I thought it had to be a team option.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
TMS
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11/14/2008  3:00 AM
Posted by Pharzeone:

You know the funny thing I can't think of a team off the top of my head that 2 guard is a major concern for them right now or have the luxury of signing him for more than what he is making now. Maybe the Hornets? I thought the CBA prevented a player from using the Bird Exception if he opts out of his contract. I thought it had to be a team option.

i was saying if he opted NOT to opt out & wagered on the Knicks not having the cap space in 2010 to sign a big name FA (which is very likely if they continue to stand pat & do nothing), then he would be at a strong bargaining position because the Knicks would have very little options at that point but to sign him to a contract extension in 2010 when his contract expires using their Bird exception.

this is why i say if the Knicks are smart they'll be proactive & either start dumping contracts right now like Curry, Zach & Fishlips, or trade Jamal & either D Lee or Nate for more draft picks this season... the time for Jamal to opt out is after this season cuz there won't be many other better FA's than him available for a team looking for a scoring G... otherwise he can stand pat w/his current deal & hope the Knicks don't have many options other than to resign him at a raise in a couple years... that's a big risk to take tho on his part... i'm sure his agent will push for him to opt out now & get paid if he can.

the only other significant SG that will be potentially available in FA next season is Kobe & Iverson really, & i don't see the Lakers allowing Kobe to opt out, all that BS talk about him going to Europe to make bank is to pressure them into re-negotiating a contract extension to keep him there til he retires IMO... Kobe knows there won't be many big market options for him to go to even if he did decide to opt out after this year, & i think the Lakers know this... they'll probably work out a big contract re-up before the season ends IMHO.

as for Iverson, teams may weigh what it would cost to sign an aging HOFer to a longterm deal vs. a cheaper option like Jamal & decide the younger guy is how they wanna go, who knows.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-14-2008 12:11 AM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
2009 Free agent class

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