[ IMAGES: Images ON turn off | ACCOUNT: User Status is LOCKED why? ]

And What If We Don't Get James, Bosh, or Wade in 2010?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum
Page 2 of 3 ‹ Previous 1  2  3 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
Author Thread
CrushAlot
Posts: 59764
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 7/25/2003
Member: #452
USA
11/11/2008  12:27 PM
The reality of Lebron is that he will have lots of choices and lots of reasons to go other places or stay where he is. Lebron is from Ohio and he owns the city of Cleveland. Dumars and the agent connection in Detroit could put him there. In NJ he still would be in the metropolitan area and he would be with Jay-Z. In NY he would be in the greatest city in the world but there are no guarantees especially if the roster is stripped of talent in an attempt to acquire him.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
AUTOADVERT
newyorknewyork
Posts: 30259
Alba Posts: 1
Joined: 1/16/2004
Member: #541
11/11/2008  12:30 PM
Posted by CrushAlot:

The reality of Lebron is that he will have lots of choices and lots of reasons to go other places or stay where he is. Lebron is from Ohio and he owns the city of Cleveland. Dumars and the agent connection in Detroit could put him there. In NJ he still would be in the metropolitan area and he would be with Jay-Z. In NY he would be in the greatest city in the world but there are no guarantees especially if the roster is stripped of talent in an attempt to acquire him.

Even if we don't sign him, with the cap space we would have we would be able to build everything we lost back up easily and better then before in a short period of time.
https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
BasketballJones
Posts: 31973
Alba Posts: 19
Joined: 7/16/2002
Member: #290
USA
11/11/2008  12:39 PM
Posted by oohah:

So everybody thinks they are so smart with their "worry about nothing but 2010" plan!

Last I looked there were 29 other teams in the BA. Teams have the right to offer their own free agent player more money than anyone else. Players get injured and in 2 years may not be who they are today. I don't even want Wade if it means mortgaging every asset we have.

So what happens in the likelihood Lebron etc. don't show up here in 2010? Then we spent 2 years destroying the team for nothing no?

Doesn't that make us idiots?

P.S. It doesn't matter what we think, none of us is the GM.

oohah

That's where you're wrong. In my mind, I know I'm the GM. I just know it.
https:// It's not so hard.
nixluva
Posts: 56258
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/5/2004
Member: #758
USA
11/11/2008  12:44 PM
It's never been ONLY about cap space, but you have to move in that direction to give yourself total flexibility. We've got some time to figure out who we'll keep and who we'll get rid of, so there's no rush. Play this season out and only make a deal if it meets your objective of adding young talent and clearing cap space.

I'm positive that we'll find a way to improve the team between now and 2010, without adding to the payroll. That's why you have to be patient.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
11/11/2008  6:06 PM
Posted by newyorknewyork:

Also Lebron looking to sign with a new team is all about money and market first and foremost then about being a contender as a distant second.

If we were to somehow land Lebron then cap space from that point on wouldn't mean anything. We could *starphuch* our brains out after that in order to try and build a contender around Lebron for the next few yrs. Then having an owner like Dolan who would be willing to have 120million dollar roster with a true franchise player like Lebron would be wonderful.

i can always rely on u to see where i'm coming from... our main issue is attaining that franchise player to build around, after that like u said we can starphuch til the cows come home to try & put together the rest of the pieces... if we can get lucky in the draft & get that franchise player in the draft, all the better, but it's still a smart play to have the flexibility in 2010 to make other moves to put good players around him... the dumb thing to do would be to take on more bad contracts right now in hopes of contending for a playoff berth even at the cost of not having any flexibility in 2010 & beyond.

btw, 2011 we're set up to have cap space, but that can also change if u keep taking on longterm salaries... when do we break the vicious cycle? when Dolan finally decides he's had enough & sells the damn team?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
11/11/2008  6:07 PM
Posted by jazz74:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by anrst:

we can still get Durant or Paul in '10 or '11 or whenever they're free.

2011 is not the issue, we're gonna have cap space regardless if we stand pat & do nothing or we make trades to get under the cap in 2010 (unless of course we go the Isiah route & add another 2 or 3 bad contracts that extend beyond)


yeah but isn't the free agent class of 2011 strong too with i think dwight howard, durant and anthony? 2012 has cp3 i believe so it is important through those years to be fiscal anyway.

2011 class is strong & we'll have the cap space to sign a FA that year even if we stand pat... we only need to worry about 2011 if we start taking on bad money again like we've been doing for a while now.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
11/11/2008  6:09 PM
Posted by CrushAlot:

The reality of Lebron is that he will have lots of choices and lots of reasons to go other places or stay where he is. Lebron is from Ohio and he owns the city of Cleveland. Dumars and the agent connection in Detroit could put him there. In NJ he still would be in the metropolitan area and he would be with Jay-Z. In NY he would be in the greatest city in the world but there are no guarantees especially if the roster is stripped of talent in an attempt to acquire him.

the reality is that this is not all about Lebron James.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
SlimPack
Posts: 23588
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/14/2005
Member: #1009
USA
11/11/2008  6:23 PM
Honeslty I agree with oohah. (At least I think i do, I'm not 100% sure what the hell he's talking about)

I'm not fully on board with the 2010 plan. My thinking is, just be smart. I know that's a vague way of putting, but basically what I mean is, don't make trades for longer salary, don't trade draft picks, trade players that don't fit the system, look for guys who's better than their current value, etc. etc.

I don't like the idea of doing whatever it takes to be under the salary cap by 2010. I think the focus should more so be on acquiring assets and being flexible. I don't necessarily think 2010 will be all that and a bag of chips. I don't see any reason to assume that we could get any big name player that year through Free Agency. Sure some of them may opt out, but I don't see any reason to assume that A) any of them will, or B) if one or more of them do, we will be the team that lands them.

I mean, I'm all for getting under the salary cap, but I don't think we should trade assets to do so by a particular year.

[Edited by - Slimpack on 11-11-2008 6:26 PM]
oohah
Posts: 26600
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/7/2005
Member: #887
11/11/2008  6:34 PM
Posted by SlimPack:

Honeslty I agree with oohah. (At least I think i do, I'm not 100% sure what he's saying.)

I'm not fully on board with the 2010 plan. My thinking is, just be smart. I know that's a vague way of putting, but basically what I mean is, don't make trades for longer salary, don't trade draft picks, trade players that don't fit the system, look for guys who's better than their current value, etc. etc.

I don't like the idea of doing whatever it takes to be under the salary cap by 2010. I think the focus should more so be on acquiring assets and being flexible. I don't necessarily think 2010 will be all that and a bag of chips. I don't see any reason to assume that we could get any big name player that year through Free Agency. Sure some of them may opt out, but I don't see any reason to assume that A) any of them will, or B) if one or more of them do, we will be the team that lands them.

I mean, I'm all for getting under the salary cap, but I don't think we should trade assets to do so by a particular year.

It all depends on what the future yields. We are not in a position because of ownership, that we can decide to gut the team and try to sign 1-2 huge free agents. And truthfully that doesn't interest me a whole lot. I like it when my team tries to win. That is just me though.

If a good trade shows itself, take it. Look for good talent to acquire, develop the talent we have and try not to bog ourselves down with bad contracts. Maybe consolidate that talent into a trade for a big free agent.

That is what Miami and Detroit did.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
SlimPack
Posts: 23588
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 10/14/2005
Member: #1009
USA
11/11/2008  6:43 PM
Posted by oohah:
Posted by SlimPack:

Honeslty I agree with oohah. (At least I think i do, I'm not 100% sure what he's saying.)

I'm not fully on board with the 2010 plan. My thinking is, just be smart. I know that's a vague way of putting, but basically what I mean is, don't make trades for longer salary, don't trade draft picks, trade players that don't fit the system, look for guys who's better than their current value, etc. etc.

I don't like the idea of doing whatever it takes to be under the salary cap by 2010. I think the focus should more so be on acquiring assets and being flexible. I don't necessarily think 2010 will be all that and a bag of chips. I don't see any reason to assume that we could get any big name player that year through Free Agency. Sure some of them may opt out, but I don't see any reason to assume that A) any of them will, or B) if one or more of them do, we will be the team that lands them.

I mean, I'm all for getting under the salary cap, but I don't think we should trade assets to do so by a particular year.

It all depends on what the future yields. We are not in a position because of ownership, that we can decide to gut the team and try to sign 1-2 huge free agents. And truthfully that doesn't interest me a whole lot. I like it when my team tries to win. That is just me though.

If a good trade shows itself, take it. Look for good talent to acquire, develop the talent we have and try not to bog ourselves down with bad contracts. Maybe consolidate that talent into a trade for a big free agent.

That is what Miami and Detroit did.

oohah

I get what you are saying. I don't think I agree though. I like it when the team tries (and succeeds) at winning too, but sometimes I just think the Knicks would be better off making a trade the makes them suckier but cheaper. Maybe I'm over valuing the importance of draft picks, but I just think it's really important for the Knicks to get a high pick this year. especially with Gallinari looking like 'broke back gallo'.

But I can understand why you, or anyone for that matter, wouldn't think it's necessary for the Knicks to go backwards (so to speak) talent-wise, in order to build for the future.
oohah
Posts: 26600
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/7/2005
Member: #887
11/11/2008  6:46 PM
Posted by SlimPack:


I get what you are saying. I don't think I agree though. I like it when the team tries (and succeeds) at winning too, but sometimes I just think the Knicks would be better off making a trade the makes them suckier but cheaper. Maybe I'm over valuing the importance of draft picks, but I just think it's really important for the Knicks to get a high pick this year. especially with Gallinari looking like 'broke back gallo'.

But I can understand why you, or anyone for that matter, wouldn't think it's necessary for the Knicks to go backwards (so to speak) talent-wise, in order to build for the future.

Sometimes it is necessary. But in general teams should make moves to get better.

oohah



Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
11/11/2008  6:56 PM
Posted by SlimPack:

Honeslty I agree with oohah. (At least I think i do, I'm not 100% sure what the hell he's talking about)

I'm not fully on board with the 2010 plan. My thinking is, just be smart. I know that's a vague way of putting, but basically what I mean is, don't make trades for longer salary, don't trade draft picks, trade players that don't fit the system, look for guys who's better than their current value, etc. etc.

I don't like the idea of doing whatever it takes to be under the salary cap by 2010. I think the focus should more so be on acquiring assets and being flexible. I don't necessarily think 2010 will be all that and a bag of chips. I don't see any reason to assume that we could get any big name player that year through Free Agency. Sure some of them may opt out, but I don't see any reason to assume that A) any of them will, or B) if one or more of them do, we will be the team that lands them.

I mean, I'm all for getting under the salary cap, but I don't think we should trade assets to do so by a particular year.

[Edited by - Slimpack on 11-11-2008 6:26 PM]

it's really not all that unattainable... if u can trade Zach, D Lee & Curry then u'll have accomplished the plan & not completely gutted ur team in the process... u can replace those guys w/the lottery pick this season & 2 FA's easily if u have the cap space to do it... right now we don't have any options to improve except for taking on more bad contracts like Gerald Wallace & Vince Carter.

i'm a little confused cuz it sounds to me like ur really agreeing w/the position i've had & not oohah.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-11-2008 3:58 PM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
oohah
Posts: 26600
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/7/2005
Member: #887
11/11/2008  7:01 PM
i'm a little confused cuz it sounds to me like ur really agreeing w/the position i've had & not oohah.

You have no idea what I have been saying apparently, or just prefer to misrepresent me. I don't think you could explain my position if you tried. Instead you would just call me a "hedger", and then turn around and say that I am misrepresenting you even though you are advocating exactly what I had explained.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
11/11/2008  7:09 PM
this is pointless dude... just drop it... i'm sick of arguing w/u over semantics.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
BasketballJones
Posts: 31973
Alba Posts: 19
Joined: 7/16/2002
Member: #290
USA
11/11/2008  7:29 PM
I don't understand any of this, but I agree with all of it.
https:// It's not so hard.
EwingsGlass
Posts: 27732
Alba Posts: 2
Joined: 4/29/2005
Member: #893
USA
11/11/2008  7:47 PM
Posted by anrst:

we can still get Durant or Paul in '10 or '11 or whenever they're free.


Chris Paul, Deron Williams and Dwight Howard (are all signed through 2012. Beasley, Mayo, Rose and the rest of this year's crop of players will all be RFAs that year too (if not extended before then).

If the Knicks miss out on the 2010 lottery... I would keep collecting trading chips and make and make a serious move for Paul and Howard in 2013. The Collective Bargaining Agreement expires before then, so you don't really know what the Free Agent market will be like at that time (who knows if the Larry Bird Rule will still be in effect... or if the cap will exist as we know it)... might be worth skipping on 2010 to be ready in 2013.
You know I gonna spin wit it
4949
Posts: 29378
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/25/2006
Member: #1126
USA
11/11/2008  8:59 PM
Posted by oohah:

So everybody thinks they are so smart with their "worry about nothing but 2010" plan!

Last I looked there were 29 other teams in the BA. Teams have the right to offer their own free agent player more money than anyone else. Players get injured and in 2 years may not be who they are today. I don't even want Wade if it means mortgaging every asset we have.

So what happens in the likelihood Lebron etc. don't show up here in 2010? Then we spent 2 years destroying the team for nothing no?

Doesn't that make us idiots?

P.S. It doesn't matter what we think, none of us is the GM.

oohah

Don't you think we should at least try' instead of having all of the negative reactions to it? It gets a little depressing after awhile.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
Posts: 29378
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/25/2006
Member: #1126
USA
11/11/2008  9:02 PM
All I know is 'Donnie said he has a plan'. There is a lot of talk about bringing Lebron to NY. That's all I know.
I'll never trust this' team again.
oohah
Posts: 26600
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/7/2005
Member: #887
11/11/2008  10:05 PM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by oohah:

So everybody thinks they are so smart with their "worry about nothing but 2010" plan!

Last I looked there were 29 other teams in the BA. Teams have the right to offer their own free agent player more money than anyone else. Players get injured and in 2 years may not be who they are today. I don't even want Wade if it means mortgaging every asset we have.

So what happens in the likelihood Lebron etc. don't show up here in 2010? Then we spent 2 years destroying the team for nothing no?

Doesn't that make us idiots?

P.S. It doesn't matter what we think, none of us is the GM.

oohah

Don't you think we should at least try' instead of having all of the negative reactions to it? It gets a little depressing after awhile.


Yes, I think we should try. But I don't think we should put all of our eggs in the 2010 basket. The Knicks should try to improve using multiple strategies: from Within, Using trades and signings, and the big 2010 sweepstakes.

oohah


Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Bippity10
Posts: 13999
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 1/26/2004
Member: #574
11/12/2008  12:42 PM
So far no move has been made that indicates we are putting all our eggs in one basket. So why fret?
I just hope that people will like me
Page 2 of 3 ‹ Previous 1  2  3 Next ›
« Reply To Topic
And What If We Don't Get James, Bosh, or Wade in 2010?
Forum Index  ›  NY Knicks Forum

©2001-2025 ultimateknicks.comm All rights reserved. About Us.
This site is not affiliated with the NY Knicks or the National Basketball Association in any way.
You may visit the official NY Knicks web site by clicking here.

All times (GMT-05:00) Eastern Time.

Terms of Use and Privacy Policy