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What is Walsh's trade record?
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Masterplan
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11/6/2008  1:16 PM
Posted by Rookie:
Jamal in a 6th man role is fine for him... u don't demand consistency out of a 6th man anyways...

You think Jamal's inconsistent now, put him in a back-up role and you'll have to take his pulse to make sure he's alive.

i agree with you on this much. jamal was originally supposed to come off the bench for our marbury-houston backcourt, the SG spot opened up and jamal has been a lot worse when he's not starting. not sure why that should be the case, but it's the trend as i see it.

that said, what do you expect to get in a trade for the guy you're running down like this? walsh may have a good trade record, but it's not like a midas touch or anything. i'd like to see some move by the trade deadline, but walsh's options are limited (but not impossible) for the next couple seasons. i'm fine with being patient.
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TMS
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11/6/2008  1:23 PM
Posted by arkrud:
Posted by TMS:

just trade D Lee & Nate to the Clips for Camby & their #1 & have Roberson fill some of Nate's minutes off the bench... put Jamal back as the 6th man off the bench, start Camby & Zach in the frontcourt, Chandler at the 3 & a backcourt of Q Rich & Duhon & u have a much improved defensive team this year as well as 2 high 1st round picks to stock up our talent pool for next season... u also no longer have to worry about extending Nate or D Lee's contracts & still have instant offense off the bench in Jamal.

So you want to finally clear the MSG building from the fans?
I am with you on this. F..ck Dolan.
But unfortunately he will not appreciate this scenario.

dude, ur talking nonsense... if Dolan doesn't want D Lee traded he woulda told Walsh to sign him up, not discuss trade offers w/other teams over the offseason... this is about what's good for the franchise, not what D Lee's fans want or don't want.

btw, i'm a D Lee fan myself... but u gotta put ur fandom aside & think about the big picture here... he's gonna demand a huge payout after this season & w/Zach currently here for the longterm there really is no way we can succeed w/those 2 as our starting frontcourt... something has to give & if u can't dump Zach's contract for a shorter term deal (which is already obvious after seeing the trades being offered to us by other teams), then u gotta bite the bullet & trade D Lee now while u still can get back good value for him.

the longer u wait, the less his trade value becomes, because team's aren't gonna give up a 1st round pick for a 2 month rent-a-player unless he's a star calibre talent, which D Lee is not, at least not now... whether he ever will be is anyone's guess but the situation here in NY is not gonna be conducive for him to realize it cuz the deficiencies in his game will ALWAYS be accentuated because of the overall team imbalance.

do u get it now?
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TMS
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11/6/2008  1:27 PM
Posted by Rookie:
Jamal in a 6th man role is fine for him... u don't demand consistency out of a 6th man anyways...

You think Jamal's inconsistent now, put him in a back-up role and you'll have to take his pulse to make sure he's alive.

the hell are u talking about? we've seen Jamal in a 6th man role before... what difference does it make? as long as he's here we have to find some role for him, don't we? if u don't wanna see him starting then he's gonna be a 6th man... the other option is to trade him, which is fine by me... regardless, we got plenty of things to fix on this team... we gotta tackle each issue one by one.
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Rookie
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11/6/2008  1:28 PM
That's pretty much what I was trying to say. Walsh is in the twilight of his career. He has established a good reputation over the years. I doubt that he will end his career with a bunch of lopsided trades...I also doubt any other teams are going to do us any favors and offer equal value.

As most of you know, we have a bunch of second tier guys with bloated contracts. I don't have any expectations that we will see any impact deals by the deadline....but I am hopeful. All this trade talk lately is alot of fun, but reality is what it is.
LivingLegend
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11/6/2008  1:34 PM
Posted by Rookie:

Thanks for the history and vote of confidence on Walsh.

Here's what I know of him so far:

Trades Weiss of 'dunk of death' fame for Ewing jr./cuts Ewing jr.

Selects Gallinari with the 6th pick in the first round/Tractor Traylor levels him and we haven't seen him since except for a short cameo appearance. He is only signed to a 2yr. contract

Signs Duhon and Roberson.

Trades Balkman in a salary dump for Green and Jones and a 2nd rd. pick in 2010. Green and Jones are waived.

So what has he really done so far???



[Edited by - Rookie on 11-06-2008 12:12 PM]


You are right.

Walsh must have been asleep and missed out on the easy Kobe or Lebron for Eddy and Craw trades that were sitting out there.

Be patient young grasshopper -- Donnie Walsh has a tad bit more experience than you when it comes to dealing with the NBA. His experience isn't limited to creating a username and password on this board.

Donnie isn't over the hill and he isn't a dumbo. He is waiting for the right deals and he knows what he's doing.

All the little deals you mentioned are just that little deals.

The only thing he's done so far that could come back to kill him is if Gallo is a stinky turd.
Rookie
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11/6/2008  1:35 PM
the hell are u talking about? we've seen Jamal in a 6th man role before... what difference does it make? as long as he's here we have to find some role for him, don't we? if u don't wanna see him starting then he's gonna be a 6th man... the other option is to trade him, which is fine by me... regardless, we got plenty of things to fix on this team... we gotta tackle each issue one by one.

I'd rather see him show up to play every game on both ends of the court. If someone wanted to pay me to play basketball, I'd leave it all out there on the court every day.
LivingLegend
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11/6/2008  1:37 PM
Posted by Rookie:

That's pretty much what I was trying to say. Walsh is in the twilight of his career. He has established a good reputation over the years. I doubt that he will end his career with a bunch of lopsided trades...I also doubt any other teams are going to do us any favors and offer equal value.

As most of you know, we have a bunch of second tier guys with bloated contracts. I don't have any expectations that we will see any impact deals by the deadline....but I am hopeful. All this trade talk lately is alot of fun, but reality is what it is.

And --- if you doubt that any other teams are going to do us any favors. Why do you want your GM out there trading.

Again - Walsh isn't some senile old fool drooling in his soup. He's an experienced GM with a very strong track record and he will strike the right deals when they materialize. His greatest virtue right now is his patience.

Rookie
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11/6/2008  1:41 PM
He is waiting for the right deals and he knows what he's doing.

All the little deals you mentioned are just that little deals.


I think that I already said that, but thanks for agreeing with me.
Rookie
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11/6/2008  1:46 PM
And --- if you doubt that any other teams are going to do us any favors. Why do you want your GM out there trading.

Again - Walsh isn't some senile old fool drooling in his soup. He's an experienced GM with a very strong track record and he will strike the right deals when they materialize. His greatest virtue right now is his patience.

Like I said, I doubt we will see any impact deals by the deadline. It was announced on opening day:

"Please welcome your 2008/09 New York Knicks"

Who is going to want what we have?





[Edited by - Rookie on 11-06-2008 1:49 PM]
Pharzeone
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11/6/2008  1:47 PM
Posted by NYKBocker:

Walsh has a history of trading away beloved players in their organization and striking it rich.

1989 – Trades Herb Williams to Dallas Mavericks for eventual Sixth Man of the Year Detlef Schrempf. Herb was a fan fave back in Indiana.

1999 - Trades fan fave Antonio Davis for the 5th pick of the draft. Well, this became Jonathan Bender but he got a lottery pick.

2000 – Trades Dale Davis to the Portland Trail Blazers for Jermaine O'Neal. Another fan fave with one of the Davis boys for an unproven player.

2002 – Trades Jalen Rose and Travis Best for Brad Miller and Ron Artest (with Kevin Ollie and Ron Mercer). Jalen Rose was being bandied about as the next Magic Johnson.

Walsh is fine. He is just being careful. A welcome change from Popcorn man.

ROFL. What's with the revisionist rewrite of Walsh trades. The 2000 and 2002 trades were Isiah Thomas trades that he had to convince Walsh on. Walsh were against both trades at first. Walsh is terrible when left alone at making trade ideas because he lacks insight as noted on any Pacer forum/blog you go to. As Larry Bird said Walsh gets full credit for Dunleavy/Harrington trade, Artest/Peja trade and oh yeah the Harrington trade the first time.

"When O'Neal arrived at his new club, new coach Isiah Thomas—who had pushed for the O'Neal/Davis trade—told him that he simply needed to work harder on his game to succeed."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jermaine_O'Neal

Thomas pushed hard to get rid of Rose who he couldn't get along with and wanted Artest, a defensive specialist and Miller was always a guy that Thomas coveted. Both Rose and Best were Walsh guys especially Best.

Walsh was a figurehead in Indiana once Brown took over. He let his coaches have free reign. He stepped back up to the plate after Piston Pacer Brawl. Those trades are what Bird is trying to clean up now.
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TMS
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11/6/2008  1:50 PM
Posted by Rookie:
the hell are u talking about? we've seen Jamal in a 6th man role before... what difference does it make? as long as he's here we have to find some role for him, don't we? if u don't wanna see him starting then he's gonna be a 6th man... the other option is to trade him, which is fine by me... regardless, we got plenty of things to fix on this team... we gotta tackle each issue one by one.

I'd rather see him show up to play every game on both ends of the court. If someone wanted to pay me to play basketball, I'd leave it all out there on the court every day.

what does any of that have to do w/the reality of the situation? the fact is that Jamal is not a defensive minded player & he's inconsistent... we all know this... what's the point in constantly harping on it? there's plenty of Jamal sucks threads that pop up around here, feel free to rag on him all u want... i'm trying to come up w/the best possible starting rotation for the collection of guys we have right now... there's nothing that's gonna make a huge impact either way cuz we don't have the players... however if u have a better solution i'm all ears.

[Edited by - TMS on 11-06-2008 10:51 AM]
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markvmc
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11/6/2008  2:02 PM
Posted by NYKBocker:

Walsh has a history of trading away beloved players in their organization and striking it rich.

Problem is we don't have any of those.
TMS
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11/6/2008  2:05 PM
Posted by markvmc:
Posted by NYKBocker:

Walsh has a history of trading away beloved players in their organization and striking it rich.

Problem is we don't have any of those.

u don't think D Lee is as good as Antonio Davis? i have to disagree w/u on that one.
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martin
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11/6/2008  2:06 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by markvmc:
Posted by NYKBocker:

Walsh has a history of trading away beloved players in their organization and striking it rich.

Problem is we don't have any of those.

u don't think D Lee is as good as Antonio Davis? i have to disagree w/u on that one.

A Davis was an all-star sub in his days at Indiana. Lee not even close.
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TMS
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11/6/2008  2:09 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by markvmc:
Posted by NYKBocker:

Walsh has a history of trading away beloved players in their organization and striking it rich.

Problem is we don't have any of those.

u don't think D Lee is as good as Antonio Davis? i have to disagree w/u on that one.

A Davis was an all-star sub in his days at Indiana. Lee not even close.

A Davis averaged a double double once in his entire career, & it's pretty much where most people project D Lee's upside as being (14 / 10)... i don't see how he's not even close as being as good as A Davis when it took the guy 8 years in the NBA to reach that level.
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markvmc
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11/6/2008  2:17 PM
A flip comment. I like Lee. Wouldn't class him as "beloved" though.
Rookie
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11/6/2008  2:20 PM
"what does any of that have to do w/the reality of the situation? the fact is that Jamal is not a defensive minded player & he's inconsistent... we all know this... what's the point in constantly harping on it?"

The point is that I refuse to accept this. If he wants to admit that he is a 'limited' player, then so be it. Fact is, there's room for improvement. He could try and become a more complete player than he is. I am picking on him because he is at the root of the problem with this team. Whether he starts or comes off the bench, his attitude towards the game is a sickness. If MDA can't get through to him, nobody can. I respect what MDA is doing with him, but he's not a rookie anymore and it's time to fish or cut bait. He's a starter, not a sixth man and he should try and remember that when he puts his team colors on.

"i'm trying to come up w/the best possible starting rotation for the collection of guys we have right now... there's nothing that's gonna make a huge impact either way cuz we don't have the players... however if u have a better solution i'm all ears."

I'm looking forward to see how MDA handles this. I have confidence in him and I respect his approach to the game. I hope that Walsh will make something happen to shake things up, but I'm not optimistic about his options. MDA seems like a no BS realist, I like him.
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11/6/2008  2:22 PM
Posted by markvmc:

A flip comment. I like Lee. Wouldn't class him as "beloved" though.

i think i would... he's obviously the most popular player on this team & the fans love him... beloved means being loved, which he is.
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TMS
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11/6/2008  2:25 PM
Posted by Rookie:

"what does any of that have to do w/the reality of the situation? the fact is that Jamal is not a defensive minded player & he's inconsistent... we all know this... what's the point in constantly harping on it?"

The point is that I refuse to accept this. If he wants to admit that he is a 'limited' player, then so be it. Fact is, there's room for improvement. He could try and become a more complete player than he is. I am picking on him because he is at the root of the problem with this team. Whether he starts or comes off the bench, his attitude towards the game is a sickness. If MDA can't get through to him, nobody can. I respect what MDA is doing with him, but he's not a rookie anymore and it's time to fish or cut bait. He's a starter, not a sixth man and he should try and remember that when he puts his team colors on.

"i'm trying to come up w/the best possible starting rotation for the collection of guys we have right now... there's nothing that's gonna make a huge impact either way cuz we don't have the players... however if u have a better solution i'm all ears."

I'm looking forward to see how MDA handles this. I have confidence in him and I respect his approach to the game. I hope that Walsh will make something happen to shake things up, but I'm not optimistic about his options. MDA seems like a no BS realist, I like him.

i wish he would work on his defense too, at least show an effort to defend & not let guys blow by him on every possession... i wish Marbury woulda done that the past few years too, but for his part he did at least show a little effort on D at times (not very often)... i wish Jamal would be more consistent too cuz i like the guy & it sucks when i hear people rag on him all the time... but even i have to admit he's just not gonna change & he is what he is... it sucks but reality is he's gonna be on this team so we gotta figure out a role that best suits him... if u think he's better off as a starter i can respect that... i would actually prefer him to be starting at PG w/Q Rich starting at the 2.
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Bippity10
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11/6/2008  2:29 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Rookie:

"what does any of that have to do w/the reality of the situation? the fact is that Jamal is not a defensive minded player & he's inconsistent... we all know this... what's the point in constantly harping on it?"

The point is that I refuse to accept this. If he wants to admit that he is a 'limited' player, then so be it. Fact is, there's room for improvement. He could try and become a more complete player than he is. I am picking on him because he is at the root of the problem with this team. Whether he starts or comes off the bench, his attitude towards the game is a sickness. If MDA can't get through to him, nobody can. I respect what MDA is doing with him, but he's not a rookie anymore and it's time to fish or cut bait. He's a starter, not a sixth man and he should try and remember that when he puts his team colors on.

"i'm trying to come up w/the best possible starting rotation for the collection of guys we have right now... there's nothing that's gonna make a huge impact either way cuz we don't have the players... however if u have a better solution i'm all ears."

I'm looking forward to see how MDA handles this. I have confidence in him and I respect his approach to the game. I hope that Walsh will make something happen to shake things up, but I'm not optimistic about his options. MDA seems like a no BS realist, I like him.

i wish he would work on his defense too, at least show an effort to defend & not let guys blow by him on every possession... i wish Marbury woulda done that the past few years too, but for his part he did at least show a little effort on D at times (not very often)... i wish Jamal would be more consistent too cuz i like the guy & it sucks when i hear people rag on him all the time... but even i have to admit he's just not gonna change & he is what he is... it sucks but reality is he's gonna be on this team so we gotta figure out a role that best suits him... if u think he's better off as a starter i can respect that... i would actually prefer him to be starting at PG w/Q Rich starting at the 2.

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