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PresIke
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11/3/2008  2:53 PM
Posted by oohah:
how would you have gone about trying to "break it down for real"? how would that have looked different at this stage?

It would look something something like this:

Robinson/Chandler/Lee/Randolph/Galinari.
Mardy Collins and Chris Duhon are getting Marbury's minutes because they are looking to the future.

That is looking to the future? How is that looking to the future any more than playing Marbury with his expiring contract? How is Crawford getting major minutes looking to the future? Or playing Q major minutes? Or Jeffries when he gets back?

You can't just decide to look at one piece of the picture. That is just rationalizing.

as a matter of fact, playing Marbury so other teams could get a good look at how in shape and effective he is would be a lot more forward-looking than watching Duhon and Craford suck.

oohah

oohah,

This is not "rationalizing," it's just the way the Knicks see things.

They want to see if Crawford fits, or if they need to move him.

Assessing the team and hoping to see if the team develops (which could include winning) involves all players not named Steph, and possibly Eddy.

The "future" does not necessarily mean that the players who get run are on the team of the future. It could be to see if they are going to be a part of it as well.

The decision on Marbury was made already, and they don't need to see him play from their perspective.

I am just not getting why this is so difficult to understand. It's been stated over and over again by Walsh, D'Antoni and several observers.

The only other explanation is that this makes zero sense and they are just doing whatever.

I mean is that really what folks think?

Isiah is gone, but for some reason some seem to think his decision making is still in effect, regardless of what evidence seems to be presented.

You have to be convinced they have no clue what they are doing, which I can't quite see evidence to support, otherwise I don't get the confusion.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
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nyk4ever
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11/3/2008  2:58 PM
Posted by fishmike:
how would you have gone about trying to "break it down for real"? how would that have looked different at this stage?
cosign that reply. There is no magic wand. You have to get rid of the Isiah regime. Isnt that process going on now? Mardy Collins and Chris Duhon are getting Marbury's minutes because they are looking to the future.

They have tickets to sell and its NY so they arent going to come out and say that they are tanking but does anyone really feel like MD and DW are all about winning games?

Agree with you and whoever you agreed with. This wasn't going to happen overnight, a rebuild never does.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
BlueSeats
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11/3/2008  2:59 PM
Posted by Elite:

its going to take time... I just hoped we would have cleaned some of this stink outa here by now

I'm almost embarrased for "yupping" you.

How do you go from that to this in a matter of minutes?
Posted by Elite:

Why not give Marbury the 20mpg that Roberson+Collins are currently getting?????

PresIke
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11/3/2008  3:04 PM
Again, on Marbury, folks, he is making $20 million.

No team is going to gut their roster to get him.

I challenge folks to come up with ACTUAL FEASIBLE DEALS that involve trading Marbury to a team that gets us a player we want, and doesn't hurt our cap position for 2010.

Since doing nothing takes his $$$ off the books for the Knicks, finally, and waiving him without a buyout they want (paying him something less since he'll get more from another team) is not an option, that's why he's sitting.

[Edited by - PresIke on 11-03-2008 3:05 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
BlueSeats
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11/3/2008  3:07 PM
Posted by PresIke:

waiving him without a buyout they want (paying him something less since he'll get more from another team) is not an option


Sure it is. And if he's not going to play, Tim Thomas/Steve Francis him so his vibe and the media attention doesn't overwhelm the team.
oohah
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11/3/2008  3:11 PM
oohah,

This is not "rationalizing," it's just the way the Knicks see things.

They want to see if Crawford fits, or if they need to move him.

Assessing the team and hoping to see if the team develops (which could include winning) involves all players not named Steph, and possibly Eddy.

The "future" does not necessarily mean that the players who get run are on the team of the future. It could be to see if they are going to be a part of it as well.

That is all well and good if you think that the way they are going about it is right. Time will tell.

Seeing if Crawford fits? That strikes me as rationalizing because we know what he is.

Playing Duhon, Q, and Jeffries big minutes to see if they are part of the future? Or not. Or a stop-gap. or...

That seems to be rationalizing to me, but if you can explain to me how playing those guys big minutes is evaluating them for the future and that makes sense to a rebuild, I'm all ears!

I'm reading a lot of "It could be-s" and that strikes me as rationalizing.
The decision on Marbury was made already, and they don't need to see him play from their perspective.

If the decision on Marbury was made already, why did they bring him to camp? Why was everyone surprised he didn't play? Why did the coach himself say he did not know until the game was in progress?

How in the heck does any of that make sense? I'm reading a lot of alpha-dog this and showing the team that, and I think that is all B.S.
I am just not getting why this is so difficult to understand. It's been stated over and over again by Walsh, D'Antoni and several observers.

The only other explanation is that this makes zero sense and they are just doing whatever.

I mean is that really what folks think?

Isiah is gone, but for some reason some seem to think his decision making is still in effect, regardless of what evidence seems to be presented.

You have to be convinced they have no clue what they are doing, which I can't quite see evidence to support, otherwise I don't get the confusion.

I'm done with Isiah. And yet it still looks like the same old garbage to me, the same poor operation. I don't see that is so hard to see and understand, is that they are operating the same way as before and during Isiah. Who cares what they say? It is what they do.

So it is I who really doesn't get the confusion or what is so difficult. I think if one just looks at the activity, and not through hope-goggles, the team and the way it has been handled so far look like turd.

I am waiting for a clear explanation how playing has-beens, never was-es, and never will-bes and not setting up our valauble albatrosses for trades is forward looking. A real explanation, not maybe this maybe that.

***

I hope I'm wrong because I always root for my team!

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 03-11-2008 3:19 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
oohah
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11/3/2008  3:17 PM
Presike: Here is what I am saying in a nutshell: Either break it down for real and play our "not likely to be stars" youth ragged to see what we have an "evaluate", or pump up the annoying vets for trade, which since this season is not the issue is still forward looking.

Finding an exact trade is not really the issue because we don't know what the real behind the scenes goings on are.

oohah
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
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11/3/2008  3:17 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
On Sunday night Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni took a few subtle shots at former team president and coach Isiah Thomas for what he created in New York.

"We're trying to navigate some waters that really are muddy, and we didn't muddy them," D'Antoni said. "They were already muddied."

Two of Isiah's signature moves, trading for Stephon Marbury and Eddy Curry, have created huge issues for the Knicks this season.

It's dejavu all over again: Stephon Marbury's days with Knicks might be numbered - Daily News 11/13/07

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/2007/11/13/2007-11-13_stephon_marburys_days_with_knicks_might_.html

Except it was after 5 games last year. BTW - Is it just my imagination, or does Berman make up ****, and then quote himself the next day as "The Post reported yesterday"?

PresIke
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11/3/2008  3:18 PM
Okay, it's an option, but I think they are trying to bully him a bit.

They want him to take a buyout and move on.

He said he won't before, so this is what is the result.

Is it a distraction to the team?

Sure, and hence why Walsh is speaking to him now.

D'Antoni's response to the fans speaks volumes about this situation. The Knicks felt players, fans, etc. were all done with Steph, yet somehow he's getting some juice from this all.

Maybe doing a Tim Thomas thing is what will happen, but the Knicks are not too keen on letting workers get exactly what they want when you haven't delivered, with the new mantra in MSG.

They may have miscalculated, but that's what happened.

Playing him during pre-season was what some might think is the mistake, but the focus was so much on how things started, that they must have calculated...

better to just look like no big deal now, and then do what we want when the season starts.

It's the media and fans that are making this into a big deal, and that affects the organization and players.

The media, they probably expected to be supportive, except for Berman, because they have killed Marbury over the years, as have many fans.

We are buying right into all of this b.s. by challenging the Knicks on this, when I believe they are more than entitled to do as they are right now.

Marbury is the past, but given the problem of his deal and rep, we are stuck with him, and he holds the cards because they don't want to give him his whole deal and let him play elsewhere to help someone else.

They may have to concede and either let him go, or have him stay home.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
s3231
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11/3/2008  3:24 PM
Walsh and D'Antoni do seem to know what they have gotten themselves into though. Both of them have been talking about low expectations for this team and both have conveyed that they think this will be a long process. D'Antoni has even flat out said that this team won't be good this season. Make no mistake, we are tanking this season. You can't really blame Walsh too much, it probably is the right thing to do right now. Whether he drafted wisely or has been perfect is a different story (its all about the big picture).

Personally, I thought we should have been buyers during the last draft because I really thought it was feasible for us to add 2-3 stars to this team and instantly become a playoff team (guys like Jermaine, Redd, Artest, etc.). I strongly believe that we could've made this team much more competitive right now while still allowing contracts to come off the books and having enough cap space in 2010 to make a run at guys like LeBron, Bosh, etc.

Walsh chose to go in a different direction and thats fine. We will be rebuilding and slowly adding pieces that fit D'Antoni's sytle.

I don't really understand the point of hiring D'Antoni before the rebuilding even begins, but I guess Walsh wants to consult with D'Antoni and make it a team effort in bringing the right guys to NY over the next 4 seasons. With that said, we suck right now. Get used to it. You can't watch these games expecting the Knicks to all of a sudden become a playoff team. If you do that, you will be miserable for the next 2-3 seasons. Instead, you have to watch guys like Chandler (and Gallo, Lee, Nate, etc.) and hope that we at least have 1-2 pieces for the future.



[Edited by - s3231 on 11-03-2008 3:29 PM]
"This is a very cautious situation that we're in. You have to be conservative in terms of using your assets and using them wisely. We're building for the future." - Zeke (I guess not protecting a first round pick is being conservative)
PresIke
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11/3/2008  3:39 PM
Posted by oohah:
oohah,

This is not "rationalizing," it's just the way the Knicks see things.

They want to see if Crawford fits, or if they need to move him.

Assessing the team and hoping to see if the team develops (which could include winning) involves all players not named Steph, and possibly Eddy.

The "future" does not necessarily mean that the players who get run are on the team of the future. It could be to see if they are going to be a part of it as well.

That is all well and good if you think that the way they are going about it is right. Time will tell.

Seeing if Crawford fits? That strikes me as rationalizing because we know what he is.

Playing Duhon, Q, and Jeffries nig minutes to see if they are part of the future? Or not. Or a stop-gap. or...

That seems to be rationalizing to me, but if you can explain to me how playing those guys big minutes is evaluating them for the future and that makes sense to a rebuild, I'm all ears!

I'm reading a lot of "It could be-s" and that strikes me as rationalizing.
The decision on Marbury was made already, and they don't need to see him play from their perspective.

If the decision on Marbury was made already, why did they bring him to camp? Why was everyone surprised he didn't play? Why did the coach himself say he did not know until the game was in progress?

How in the heck does any of that make sense? I'm reading a lot of alpha-dog this and showing the team that, and I think that is all B.S.
I am just not getting why this is so difficult to understand. It's been stated over and over again by Walsh, D'Antoni and several observers.

The only other explanation is that this makes zero sense and they are just doing whatever.

I mean is that really what folks think?

Isiah is gone, but for some reason some seem to think his decision making is still in effect, regardless of what evidence seems to be presented.

You have to be convinced they have no clue what they are doing, which I can't quite see evidence to support, otherwise I don't get the confusion.

oohah

The word on Craw was he might work for D'Antoni. With Brown he did well, so they hoped with a good coach he would respond. I disagree with this as most likely, but I'm just saying they have to have some hope. He is on the roster, has talent and a good head on his shoulders off of the court. He's played for a gazillion coaches, so they have to have some hope he would respond. Of course, the other side of things is that they also need him to play well so they can move his deal.

How is this "rationalizing" in a negative sense? But since YOU one FAN have decided this is the case, there is no other good answer? How come you aren't GM for an NBA team if you know more than these guys who have proven track records of success?

Every single player on the team has "potential" with the team, and potential to be moved. This is a pretty straight forward kind of assessment that every manager in any job that exists undertakes on a constant basis, regarding their workers. Sitting Crawford does what exactly for the Knicks when his deal goes past this season, and past 2010, making $10+ mil.

You want to do what exactly with him then? Bench him for a few years? What?

On Steph, go read the multiple posts explaining why he was played in pre-season. I just posted one. It's really not that difficult to grasp as a strategy. I can't say 100% this is what was the case, but it makes sense of a situation that otherwise does not. That also isn't "rationalizing" unless, again, you think Walsh and D'Antoni engaged in a devious plan regarding Steph to only confuse and frustrate Knick fans. Of course, that's ridiculous and irrationale, but it's the Knicks so therefore some fans will believe it, rather than look at another perspective. The media is a business, and the worst of the lot are showing their true colors, as usual.

Remember 'Good Riddance.'

Papers like the Post, Daily News and sports talk radio types are always going to throw mud when it suits them. They play into the fear and anger of a frustrated fan base, and add fuel to the fire. It will soon pass, the Marbury situation.

Otherwise, what explanation can you provide for the decision then?
I'm done with Isiah. It it still looks like the same old garbage to me, the same poor operation. What I don't see what is so hard to see and understand is that they are operating the same way as before and during Isiah.

So it is I who really doesn't get the confusion or what is so difficult. I think if one just looks at the activity, and not through hope-goggles, the team and the way it has been handled so far look like turd.

I am waiting for a clear explanation how playing has-beens, never was-es, and never will-bes and not setting up our valauble albatrosses for trades is forward looking. A real explanation, not maybe this maybe that.

You admit, because it looks like the same as Isiah it therefore must be the same, but read between the lines, my friend, it's right there, and has been stated.

A lot of what you keep asking is basically because the Knicks have been dealt a crap hand.

They HAVE to up the value of many players, and/or see if they can develop them in D'Antoni's system. That, in summary, is the easiest explanation one can give for why the guys many (including the Knicks management) don't really like are playing.

Jeffries has a deal that is going to be hard to move, and goes past 2010, so they have to see if he can find a way to do well with D'Antoni, especially if any deals that are available involving Jared are not good from their perspective.

For Duhon, he's signed for 2 years, man, and is considered a steady PG. Nate could run the team, but they obviously wanted some stability at the PG, which is where it almost always makes sense. Maybe he develops with some of the players and shows enough to keep him on. Meanwhile, guys like Nate and Mardy see what a more serious on court player at guard does, and could learn.

D'Antoni said it very clearly. The team is on two paths.

1) Develop players and see what they have
2) Develop a winning culture/team

I think every single move has been directed at that specifically.

This Marbury situation will not be here forever, and eventually will pass. They had to consider the worst case scenario, which is somewhat happening, but they know either way Steph is absolutely 100% gone next year no matter what. I think they trust D'Antoni's rep with players enough that they can get themselves back together as the season wears on.

I mean all of this fits into what we know about D'Antoni and Walsh, as well as players.

The performance on the court is an issue, but I think it will take more than 3 games to cause a disastrous situation.

[Edited by - PresIke on 11-03-2008 3:51 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 11-03-2008 3:53 PM]

[Edited by - PresIke on 11-03-2008 3:56 PM]
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
PresIke
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11/3/2008  3:50 PM
Posted by oohah:

Presike: Here is what I am saying in a nutshell: Either break it down for real and play our "not likely to be stars" youth ragged to see what we have an "evaluate", or pump up the annoying vets for trade, which since this season is not the issue is still forward looking.

Finding an exact trade is not really the issue because we don't know what the real behind the scenes goings on are.

oohah

I hear you oohah, but why in the world would the Knicks not try to do both when more than a few of those vets need to be moved?

If we were a team full of young players and short term signed, cheap vets that would work, but many of the vets we had already are signed to ridiculously overpaid deals for 2+ years that need to be moved in some form.

Jamal
Eddy
Jeffries
Z-Bo
Q
James

That's 6 players out of 15 that are grossly overpaid, are here for at least one more season after this, and at least have a tiny chance of being traded to someone. Steph's deal is even more egregious, but it's just this year.

Duhon is different as I explained in the previous post.

Malik is in his last year, but like Duhon, and unlike most of the others, has the vet leadership quality. Plus, Lee seems to not be 100%, and Gallo looked a bit like a deer in headlights the first game.

I want to see him play more, especially over Malik, which is my biggest beef, but he follows D'Antoni's directions well I think, and D'Antoni needs models for doing the "right thing" out there, and guys that play some kind of defense. If we actually had a center who could defend and play a little Malik would probably be sitting.

The Knicks are developing and trying to win some games to change the negative culture. We've been losing for so long, that for the players, and fans, psychologically, there is a need to put a better product on the floor, not just rebuild 100% anyway.

Look at the reaction to two bad losses after 3 games?

People are actually calling for Steph to play!

This has to be a direct result of what Walsh and D'Antoni want to end, losing/no hope, so some vets that seem to help are gonna play.



Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
oohah
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11/3/2008  4:06 PM
The word on Craw was he might work for D'Antoni. With Brown he did well, so they hoped with a good coach he would respond. I disagree with this as most likely, but I'm just saying they have to have some hope. He is on the roster, has talent and a good head on his shoulders off of the court. He's played for a gazillion coaches, so they have to have some hope he would respond. Of course, the other side of things is that they also need him to play well so they can move his deal.

Crawford was benched for the first half of LB season because he was so awful. He was much better Isiah year 1.

For some reason, playing Crawford to increase his value is a sound rationale, but playing Marbury who is waaay better than crawford and has a huge expiring to increase his value is not.

You're arguing against yourself.
How is this "rationalizing" in a negative sense? But since YOU one FAN have decided this is the case, there is no other good answer? How come you aren't GM for an NBA team if you know more than these guys who have proven track records of success?

Since I am one guy my opinion is worth less than the other who are reasoning through hope goggles in lock step with every uttereance of the coach and GM? Have you heard of herds or lemmings? I prefer not to be part of a herd or a lemming.

Your entire "how come you aren't an NBA GM" is the most specious argument possible. This is an internet board where we put forth our opinions. I would hope you are better than that statement.

You want to agree with everything a GM says or does? Silly. I'll remind you of that silly argument the moment you disagree with anything Walsh or D'Antoni does.
Every single player on the team has "potential" with the team, and potential to be moved. This is just basic assessment that every manager in any job that exists. Sitting Crawford does what exactly for the Knicks when his deal goes past this season, and past 2010, making $10+ mil.

Again, why doesn't this same reasoning apply to Marbury? Please try to keep your reasoning models consistent within the same post.

You want to do what exactly with him then? Bench him for a few years? What?

Play Crawford limited minutes off the bench which is the proper way to utilize him. hat is exactly what I want to do with him? How about you? let me guess: Whatever D'Antoni or Walsh tell me to think!

On Steph, go read the multiple posts explaining why he was played in pre-season. I just posted one. It's really not that difficult to grasp as a strategy. I can't say 100% this is what was the case, but it makes sense of a situation that otherwise does not. That also isn't "rationalizing" unless, again, you think Walsh and D'Antoni that was a devious plan to only confuse and frustrate Knick fans. Of course, that's ridiculous and irrationale, but it's the Knicks so therefore some fans will believe it, rather than look at another perspective.

You provided a reason? You mean this?


"Playing him during pre-season was what some might think is the mistake, but the focus was so much on how things started, that they must have calculated..."


That is not even a sentence let alone a reason. Please, instead of being rude and asking me to read someone else's post to fill in your lack of an explanation, come back with a real explanation, that makes sense to explain why Marbury was played half the game in preseason.

Again, what explanation can you provide for the decision then?

They were stupid. Because there is no good explanation. The flaw here is that you insist there must have been a good reason.
You admit, because it looks like the same as Isiah it therefore must be the same, but read between the lines, my friend, it's right there, and has been stated.

A lot of what you keep asking is basically because the Knicks have been dealt a crap hand.

They HAVE to up the value of many players, and/or see if they can develop them in D'Antoni's system. That, in summary, is the easiest explanation one can give for why the guys many (including the Knicks management) don't really like are playing.

Jeffries has a deal that is going to be hard to move, and goes past 2010, so they have to see if he can find a way to do well with D'Antoni, especially if any deals that are available involving Jared are not good from their perspective.

Again, all of this they have to play him to up his value applies to everyone but Marbury who has the most intrinsic value because of his ability and contract.

And talking about the crap hand is rationalizing. Isiah was dealt a crap hand. So was the GM that preceded him. Sorry, don't take it too personally, but rationalizing it is.

For Duhon, he's signed for 2 years, man, and is considered a steady PG. Nate could run the team, but they obviously wanted some stability at the PG, which is where it almost always makes sense. Maybe he develops with some of the players and shows enough to keep him on. Meanwhile, guys like Nate and Mardy see what a more serious on court player at guard does, and could learn.

This would make sense if Duhon were more than a mediocre to decent backup PG. Steady but not very good. That is the book on him. And learning from Duhon while he plays major minutes certainly doesn't jibe with a true rebuilding process. It isn't like they are watching Mark price operate. So it is rationalizing.
D'Antoni said it very clearly. The team is on two paths.

1) Develop players and see what they have
2) Develop a winning culture/team

I think every single move has been directed at that specifically.

What D'Antoni said very clearly to me is that we have no clear direction. If you have 2 directions then you have no direction. You don't drive on 2 roads at once. His explanation is sophistry.

This Marbury situation will not be here forever, and eventually will pass. They had to consider the worst case scenario, which is somewhat happening, but they know either way Steph is absolutely 100% gone next year no matter what. I think they trust D'Antoni's rep with players enough that they can get themselves back together as the season wears on.

They created the scenario. Nobody to blame but Walsh and D'Antoni!
I mean all of this fits into what we know about D'Antoni and Walsh, as well as players.

How?
The performance on the court is an issue, but I think it will take more than 3 games to cause a disastrous situation.

Who said it is a disastrous situation? They just have to start making smart moves. I am free to start evaluating from game 1. So far, not so good. I think you see it too but you keep repeating to yourself: "They know what they are doing..."

***

By the way, if you have any question as to why my tone has been lass than cordial, it is because you have been rude. Go back and read your posts.

oohah



Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Bippity10
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11/3/2008  4:24 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by oohah:
Posted by martin:

PotAYtoe, potAHtoe.

deflection or the truth?

Sounds just like what Isiah said when he took over doesn't it?

It is more of the same B.S.

oohah
how is it BS? I really dont get some of the posts about how this is all more of the same. I mean the new regime has just started. If people dont like the draft pick ok fine, but thats certainly premature also.

Whats new management supposed to do? This franchise has been set back a generation because of quick fix moves. What needs to happens is this whole thing needs to be evaluated. All these player's value needs to be determined. This thing needs to be cleaned out, but we also cant afford to sell for .25 on the dollar.

This is going to be a painful process but MD and Walsh are right to say they inherited a total disaster with very little current value.

Fish: we are a fan base in denial. None of us are willing to admit how bad things really were here 6 months ago. It's going to take a while to fix this. No secrets. I have no problem with what Mike said.
I just hope that people will like me
PresIke
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11/3/2008  5:03 PM
Oohah,

If you can't separate the difference between Steph and Crawford and why one is playing and why one is not, we can't have a discussion.

Crawford is signed for 2 more years after this.

Steph is gone after this.

We can start there...

How does that, perhaps, play into the reasoning if you are Walsh and D'Antoni?

Second, is moving Crawford a good or bad idea for the Knicks cap situation after 2010, and is playing limited minutes at $10 mil a season going to increase or decrease the likelihood of him being moved, if you think that's a good idea?

I want Crawford to be played so he can have value either with the team or be moved. I prefer he be moved, so he therefore needs to be played. I dunno if that's what D'Antoni thinks, but it sure fits with why he is playing and not Steph.

Am I hopeful? Somewhat, in the long term, but I know that much of what we as fans have is their reputations, which are generally good. I consider myself very much a person who does not follow "the heard" yet trying too hard to not be part of the "heard" can also lead to bias, my friend.

I'll concede the GM point was a bit much, but it was more aimed at undermining the assumption that your view is somehow superior to that of Walsh/D'Antoni, and question why I should listen to criticisms of decisions that neither of us have any idea as to what is going on, especially given how early in their tenure things are.

Honestly, going through your post, I'm beginning to feel like giving up...

If you also don't understand how a team can both develop players and assess the vets while hoping to win games, which looks to me like what is exactly going on, I don't know what else to say. My view is that this can be done, and actually is pretty much the only thing the Knicks can do right now if they have hope in the near future.

I apologize if I came across rude, particularly that one part about negative views of the Knicks, but I do think that some of us automatically assume the worst because of the team's track record, and that gets under my skin, especially so early on, and when I like a lot of the approach of D'Antoni on several areas of coaching, and Walsh's stated patience. However, most of what I wrote was about challenging opinions you stated as fact. I will admit my views come across as fact, and the reality is I don't know for sure if this is the case, but only because I don't quite see what else could be going on that makes sense. D'Antoni did say the Knicks want to do those two things, regardless, and decisions that are being made fit into that modality nicely.

That doesn't mean you have to like it, but I am trying to provide current evidence to support what I believe is going on here.

You raise several reasons why they don't make sense, but I am not clear on what you think is going on then, other than whatever I write has to be me blindly supporting the Knicks management.
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
oohah
Posts: 26600
Alba Posts: 0
Joined: 4/7/2005
Member: #887
11/3/2008  5:05 PM
Pres -- I gotta get back to you.

Nothing wrong with intense discussion! At least we're bringing it!

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
BlueSeats
Posts: 27272
Alba Posts: 41
Joined: 11/6/2005
Member: #1024

11/3/2008  5:26 PM
I have to admit I've only skim read the discussion between oohah and pres (maybe if you guys got nastier I'd read more closely ) but I think it's pretty clear D'Antoni is out to win games, but not with Steph.

Let's remember, he spent a few years with him in Phx as an assistant coach, and he traded him as head coach, and somewhere burried on an old computer I have him quoted as talking about how the whole community and intensity of the team had changed just days after his departure.

Maybe MDA and Walsh agreed to give him a quick try to see if he was workable but D'antoni read the mood of the club and considered it phx deja vu all over again, and new he had to get out from behind the crazy 8-ball.

ooh, I know all that isn't definitive enough for you, but we're not on the inside. I too wish all this were handled earlier and more definitively, but coaching is more art than science. Sometimes a coach has to get in there with bare hands and smear the materials around to see how they meld. It's sports, not engineering.
holfresh
Posts: 38679
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Joined: 1/14/2006
Member: #1081

11/3/2008  5:27 PM
Along with Isiah, didn't LB say the same damn thing...All some of us want here is leadership that have a sense of a plan and direction...Right now our new crew is failing miserably...Their actions/statements of recent days is making me feel they are not up to the task of managing the situation on this highly visible stage...New York is different...

Suck it up, you took the job and the money, all the side stuff comes with the territory, see the 4 previous coaches...I hope they understand their leashes are even shorter than the previous regime...Right now Walsh and MDA doesn't look like they are up to the task and needs some classes in big market media savvy...MDA seems thin skinned and needs to get over it...We all think he is a decent coach and needs to get about the business of coaching and forget about the side stuff...What a joke...

TMS
Posts: 60684
Alba Posts: 617
Joined: 5/11/2004
Member: #674
USA
11/4/2008  12:31 AM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by martin:

PotAYtoe, potAHtoe.

deflection or the truth?

there's only one truth and thats's jerome james...

that would be only 1 true Turd... the truth is marcus williams.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
in ny, it's all about deflection...

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