Posted by Pharzeone:

Nixluva, you don't get it but as a coach/manager it is professional to talk to your employees. If you have not been in a professional environment it is hard to describe. You just don't walk into a workspace and say Bob, Jane and Ben, you're all on board. The rest well you'll figure it out. Curry and D'Antoni aren't best friends or a couple that are breaking up. There should be professional procedural methods involved. Management 101.

I agree. You should talk to your people. If you want Curry/Marbs or anyone else to sit on the bench, tell them to their face and don't tell the media first. Curry's benching I understand but if DT had no intentions of playings Marbs, they should have worked something out in the preseason and let the man go. Humiliation is not necessary.

Who cares what Eddy says, we all know he isn't playing until he is in shape anyways. He can ask for things until he is blue inhe face but that don't mean he gonna play.

Posted by Travla:

Posted by Pharzeone:

Nixluva, you don't get it but as a coach/manager it is professional to talk to your employees. If you have not been in a professional environment it is hard to describe. You just don't walk into a workspace and say Bob, Jane and Ben, you're all on board. The rest well you'll figure it out. Curry and D'Antoni aren't best friends or a couple that are breaking up. There should be professional procedural methods involved. Management 101.

I agree. You should talk to your people. If you want Curry/Marbs or anyone else to sit on the bench, tell them to their face and don't tell the media first. Curry's benching I understand but if DT had no intentions of playings Marbs, they should have worked something out in the preseason and let the man go. Humiliation is not necessary.

I think that's what some people are missing. Like I said many people have different backgrounds.

Posted by Pharzeone:

Dude wtf are you talking about. Why are you giving me your life testimony. All I am talking about is someone in a supervisory role conducting themselves as a professional. Mike D'Antoni is not wearing a suit just to make him look good. He is in a management position. Hell you see it all the time and hear it. When Coughlin had to punish one of his player, he called him into his office and told him with the GM present. Torre did the same. The only ones that I know that didn't practice this was Thomas. Like the stunt he had Wilkins do with Anderson back in 04 even Lenny said he wanted to talk to the guy first because it was the right thing to do. If you don't get it then I can't help you but giving me your life testimony doesn't make your argument. Give me an example of where you had to discipline one of your staff or terminate them and you didn't talk to them first. Like I said it is professional and a manner of ethics. Employer/Employee relationship.

I was merely expressing what kind of drive Curry should've exhibited in order to earn his way into the rotation. THAT my friend is what this is really about. You keep flipping it on to MDA as if it was really ever about him not doing the right thing and that is where you and Curry are wrong.

Let's back up a sec. Curry like everyone else was told in no uncertain terms that every one was starting from zero and had to earn a place in the rotation. Further, it's up to the coach to either play or not play a player and he's not under any compulsion to explain or make a big announcement or setup a meeting in order to make out his lineup sheet. Curry has it wrong. MDA doesn't have to come search him out to tell him anything.

Now there would be a difference if MDA never told him what he expected of him or what he needed to do to earn a spot, but like everyone else, he did.

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by BlueSeats:

Phar, if a sales team is told that whoever doesn't make their quota wont get to come on the company trip to Vegas, does every sales person who doesn't make their quota need a sit down to be told they wont be coming to Vegas?

No sit down was required for Eddy, he didn't lose a starting role, he simply didn't earn one.

That's a good point about the quota system but was there a quota system. Steph for example made his quota by all accounts but still didn't get a trip to Vegas but wasn't told. I would respect that system if it was a true system but it appears it wasn't. The fact of the matter is that D'Antoni thought enough to inform those in the media first or others rather than his employees. It was a cowardly act, there is no really getting out of or around that. I can't guage what Curry was actually told then what he was led to believe because D'Antoni said he spoke with over dinner. I don't want to make it out that I am defending Curry because I'm not, I just find the unprofessionalism that plagued this franchise for years is there but under new leadership. But there are different ways to lead I guess. As the Suns are finding out now in Phoenix. When asked about the difference between Porter and D'Antoni. Bell indicated that D'Antoni is the type of guy who lets you figure it out what's wrong rather than tell you while Porter comes over to talk to you about it and how to correct it.

Bolded is the bottom line. There have been many disciplinarians who've been hated but who did well for their team. Nobody doubts D'antoni ruffled some feathers and hurt some feelings, but we've also seen coaches come out trying to be everybody's friend and fail miserably. This team has been put on notice that while the style of play may be fun, but this wont be a funhouse.

I can't say exactly what D'Antoni's message is in all of this, but I do think it's been heard loudly by those it was targeted to (the entire team). We might not consider it tactful communication, but perhaps that's moot if it's effective communication.

Posted by Pharzeone:

Listen, this has been done before. Hell Nellie did it to Ewing trying to ease him out of the rotation. Instead of talking to him about it which yeah you guess it Ewing said he should have told me to my face, Nellie just started giving him less and less minutes and putting the ball in Starks hand. This was when Ewing was still in his prime. Nellie was attack for this unmercifully by the media. Now was Nellie wrong? He didn't think Ewing should be the focal point and pass the ball more. He was the coach, I'm sure he was as busy as D'Antoni.

Good example.

I did have a lot of problems with Nellie's ways (like publicly declaring that Hubert Davis was "clearly a better player" than Starks, which was debatable because Hubert didn't drive or defend) but my biggest gripe with him was that his system was wrong for our personnel. One year removed from the finals he decided to have one of the best defensive teams in the league play Nellie Ball. I guess he shouldn't have been faulted for it, as he was just being Nellie, but I did think him the wrong man for the job. While we surely would have been well served by diversifying our offense, Charles Oakley, Patric Ewing, Anthony Mason, Hubert Davis, a nearly retired Derrik Harper, Charlie Ward, et al, did not a running team make. Plus, all of these guys were umpteen times greater leaders than Marbury or Eddy will ever be. Sometimes it's prudent to speak to recidivists differently than hero's and leaders.

But that's just nostolgia, it has little bearing upon what we are discussing here. If Nellie's communication proved itself to be effective it might have been viewed differently. Coaches need to "reach" their teams, but who are we to dictate how? If D'antoni screws everything up you may well point to this moment and remind us how you saw it coming, but if players fall in line and we see a lot less slouching we might be thankful for his early aggression.

[Edited by - blueseats on 10-30-2008 10:51 PM]

Nelson did not want to ease Ewing out of the rotation. He wanted to diminish his role as primary offensive option by running the ball through Anthony Mason and Ewing's ego could not take it so he had Nelson fired.

I don't know if I agree with Nelson's approach with that team, but the Knicks had a winning record under him, and Anthony Mason made the all-star team 2 years later (I believe) basically playing point-forward just like Nelson wanted him to.

Apples and oranges fellas.

oohah

Blue, as I recall, Nelson was taking Ewing off the block and handing the ball to Mason and Ewing didn't like it. As to whether the rest of the team wanted Nelson gone, I can't speak to that, but I know Ewing wanted him gone, and the "Juice Card" was Ewing's to play.

I liked Mason a lot as a player, not so much as a person. I remember watching him in the pro-ams a couple of years before he signed with the Knicks thinking: why isn't this guy in the NBA? Then all of a sudden he was on the Knicks!

The city college pro-ams were no joke back in those days: Chris Mullin, Shelton Jones, Mark Jackson, Ken Bannister, Jerry Ice Reynolds, George Johnson, and more. It was like a real NBA game.

Back to Mason, he was a very good player for a few years, but I wouldn't leave him alone around my teenage daughter! (I have no kids.)

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 30-10-2008 11:43 PM]

What's with the cheap shots at Mason? We all know his troubles. Talk about Starks and his drug dealing past. I am not excusing Mason but come on.

Posted by BlueSeats:

Posted by Pharzeone:

What's with the cheap shots at Mason? We all know his troubles. Talk about Starks and his drug dealing past. I am not excusing Mason but come on.

We're just being nostalgic and talking about old friends.

Now what's this one about Starks, it's new to me.

You didn't know about Starks past? He was a doughboy. But he put that life behind him.

ok back to Eddy Curry....

I wish you guys would stop talking about him getting in shape.....its deeper than that. The dude needs to learn how to play. Its not about him beign able to run...he can run right now better than most of us....its the fact he simply will not try to get better and just wants to be babied.

I pray that Eddy Curry never plays another game as a Knick. He's such a bum.