I really do not think the point is on the trades he has or hasn't made up to this point. I think he has a flawed philosophy for the team and that he has made a mistake on every decision/move up to this point. These decisions will impact the future of the franchise.

Posted by Pharzeone:


You act like NY has never been under the salary cap. What history leads you to believe that players are so willing to play for the Knicks. I know players say it but when did it happen. Shaq claimed have don't sign Ewing and I play for you until Grunfeld realize that was total BS, that he had no intention on signing in NY and wanted to go play for the Lakers. The only guys that want to play for the Knicks are guys who grew up as Knicks fans. The funny thing is that the only guys that I know was sincere about it were Marbury and Anderson. God bless Houston, he wanted to play with Ewing. I just don't see the history.

All well and good but I don't see the history of the Knicks ever having a plan to get under the cap since Ewing left and in this day in age of endorsements, I think New York is a huge factor.

i was as optimistic as anyone here on the Walsh hire, but so far he hasn't shown me much of anything in terms of roster moves other than the Duhon signing, which i thought was a solid move but doesn't do much to reinforce that optimism... IMHO if he really wanted to change the culture of this team he woulda bought out Marbury & dumped Zach when he had the chance... the fact he was either unable or unwilling to make those moves doesn't give me much of an impression that much has changed at all when it comes to the overall philosophy of this team... seems to me Dolan's still limiting the power of the GM to make the moves he needs to make to truly turn this franchise around.

the 1 biggest move Walsh has made that i'm excited about is the hire of Mike D'Antoni... i like what i've seen out of him as far as how the head coach has handled the team & rotations... i'm not rushing to bash Walsh as a horrible GM cuz he's got a track record in other places, but so far i don't see any moves being made to get us anywhere closer to cap flexibility in 2010 either, which was supposedly his #1 mission statement when he took the job to begin with.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by Pharzeone:


You act like NY has never been under the salary cap. What history leads you to believe that players are so willing to play for the Knicks. I know players say it but when did it happen. Shaq claimed have don't sign Ewing and I play for you until Grunfeld realize that was total BS, that he had no intention on signing in NY and wanted to go play for the Lakers. The only guys that want to play for the Knicks are guys who grew up as Knicks fans. The funny thing is that the only guys that I know was sincere about it were Marbury and Anderson. God bless Houston, he wanted to play with Ewing. I just don't see the history.

All well and good but I don't see the history of the Knicks ever having a plan to get under the cap since Ewing left and in this day in age of endorsements, I think New York is a huge factor.

You're living in a class bubble like many New Yorkers (I include myself). You think Lebron can't get endorsement deals because he doesn't play in New York? The same for Kobe or Wade. Sheed talk about playing for the Knicks because of Isiah. Walsh doesn't have those type of connections. I mean you hope that D'Antoni is able to attract free agents if he is still here but who knows after a couple of bad seasons his rep may go far south. Connections to an organization is what lure these guys not about playing in NY where they can get the same or more money to reup with their teams and play with established stars and friends. If you had a young blooming star then I can see it. Brand signed with the Clippers because he thought he would be playing with Brand who took the money to play on the east coast. Not to close to home but still on the east coast on a young team with a future with a head coach he respects.

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by Pharzeone:


You act like NY has never been under the salary cap. What history leads you to believe that players are so willing to play for the Knicks. I know players say it but when did it happen. Shaq claimed have don't sign Ewing and I play for you until Grunfeld realize that was total BS, that he had no intention on signing in NY and wanted to go play for the Lakers. The only guys that want to play for the Knicks are guys who grew up as Knicks fans. The funny thing is that the only guys that I know was sincere about it were Marbury and Anderson. God bless Houston, he wanted to play with Ewing. I just don't see the history.

All well and good but I don't see the history of the Knicks ever having a plan to get under the cap since Ewing left and in this day in age of endorsements, I think New York is a huge factor.

You're living in a class bubble like many New Yorkers (I include myself). You think Lebron can't get endorsement deals because he doesn't play in New York? The same for Kobe or Wade. Sheed talk about playing for the Knicks because of Isiah. Walsh doesn't have those type of connections. I mean you hope that D'Antoni is able to attract free agents if he is still here but who knows after a couple of bad seasons his rep may go far south. Connections to an organization is what lure these guys not about playing in NY where they can get the same or more money to reup with their teams and play with established stars and friends. If you had a young blooming star then I can see it. Brand signed with the Clippers because he thought he would be playing with Brand who took the money to play on the east coast. Not to close to home but still on the east coast on a young team with a future with a head coach he respects.

I understand your point Pharzeone, trust me I do, especially about the connections, you're ABSOLUTELY right about it. I will say though, although Philly is the on the East coast and it's kinda close to home, there weren't a whole lot of connections there for Brand. Sure he might respect Mo Cheeks, but I know alot of players respect D'Antoni, so why couldn't that happen here? You make a good point about how will his rep hold up if the team doesn't play well for the next 2 seasons, but I don't see the Knicks being so bad that it makes D'Antoni look bad, I don't know maybe that's just me.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by Pharzeone:

Why would a Lebron, Kobe, Wade, Bosh or whoever want to come to a rebuilding effort. They are in the prime of the careers and want to win a championship. You think Garnett would have ok a trade to Boston if he didn't have a chance to play with Pierce and Allen. I really think you disrespect these guys to a great deal if you think that they don't care about winning. Like I said your guys who are willing to come to NY in a rebuilding effort has to be a player that has a connection with the organization. I know of no connections with any of the guys that I mentioned other than Lebron being a Yankee fan.

Hey man, you may end up being totally right. Who knows what the future holds, but I think it's a solid plan, who knows how much of a rebuild effort it will be, especially if Lee, Nate, Gallo (god willing he works out well) are all playing well for the Knicks. You got a solid bargaining chip that you are playing in the Garden in New York and for a coach that every player in the league wants to play for. Who knows, if it doesn't work out that they can sign a player, maybe they can use the cap space in trades. What else is there? I don't see another way to make this team better.

If Walsh had done the clippers deal, all it would have gotten us is capspace (which is something you apparently don't want) and right now those are about the only deals you can do with the players on this team, what else are you supposed to do?

It depends on the Clipper deal. If it was for a 2009 1st rounder then no but any other year yes. You get immediately cap space to make trades and you still have Marbury and Rose's expiring contracts to work with. Dunleavy is being realistic. He knows he ain't going to attract anyone to the Clippers after losing Brand. I would revisit them in an attempt to get Davis. You need pieces to attract players. That's why Walsh will live or die with Gallinari because he must be the impact player he needed to draft to use to attract a free agent or one that is nice enough to move to help get one. If he isn't then you are already behind the 8 ball.

That's what I'm saying. You get pieces in here first like a Davis. Then who knows you may have agents in 2010 forcing their teams to do a sign and trade just to get here to play with their buddies or they walk. I don't blame him for trying to get them but I don't think he really knows how to lure them here.

Keep in mind while you trying to get them, their teams are trying to keep them. You go out and get them an O'Neal or Marion. Cleveland tried to make an impact with Wallace but he lost a lot off his fastball. That's why I thought the talk about Randolph was serious. If any of those guys get to the finals or even close. You may just as well cross them off your list. God forbid they get rings during the next two years.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by Pharzeone:

That's what I'm saying. You get pieces in here first like a Davis. Then who knows you may have agents in 2010 forcing their teams to do a sign and trade just to get here to play with their buddies or they walk. I don't blame him for trying to get them but I don't think he really knows how to lure them here.

Keep in mind while you trying to get them, their teams are trying to keep them. You go out and get them an O'Neal or Marion. Cleveland tried to make an impact with Wallace but he lost a lot off his fastball. That's why I thought the talk about Randolph was serious. If any of those guys get to the finals or even close. You may just as well cross them off your list. God forbid they get rings during the next two years.

We'll have to see about all of it. In the end, I believe we are on the same page, minor differences in when you get that capspace though.

I don't think we ever had/have a realistic shot to get Baron, he wanted to play in LA because he's from Compton, thats the only problem with that, although I know you were just using him as one example.

Now if you want to put stock in rumors, Davis wanted to get out of the deal once Brand left town. He would have rather tried a sign and trade to get to NY. Another player that wanted to play with Ewing but the Knicks were over the cap when he reup. Brand did that guy very wrong.

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by Pharzeone:

Posted by nyk4ever:


We'll have to see about all of it. In the end, I believe we are on the same page, minor differences in when you get that capspace though.

I don't think we ever had/have a realistic shot to get Baron, he wanted to play in LA because he's from Compton, thats the only problem with that, although I know you were just using him as one example.

Now if you want to put stock in rumors, Davis wanted to get out of the deal once Brand left town. He would have rather tried a sign and trade to get to NY. Another player that wanted to play with Ewing but the Knicks were over the cap when he reup. Brand did that guy very wrong.

You know what, I forgot about that. I think the ship has sailed on sending Zach out there, but a Marbury for Baron deal would make alot of sense..

I am still holding out hope. That's the problem I have with Walsh. The best trade he made in the last couple of years was getting Jermaine O'Neal but the only problem with that is that all parties involved in that deal credit Isiah for identifying O'Neal and making that deal happen. Hopefully the guys he hired this summer will have that sort of insight for him.

Posted by SupremeCommander:

Posted by nyk4ever:

Posted by CrushAlot:

They did with Ernie Grunfeld. That was how they were able to get Houston, Childs, and take on LJ's monster contract.

I believe the cap rules were waaaaaaaaaay different back in 96.

There was no cap in 1996.

Dude, the NBA has had a salary cap since its inception. Let me modified that a soft cap. They didn't really place a hard one until the 80s.

[Edited by - pharzeone on 10-28-2008 01:36 AM]

The Commissioners would not allow teams to exceed a certain amount. No amount was specify but they couldn't go over agreed amounts by owners. Collusion is a better word for the soft cap.