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Did the last 2 preseason games zap any excitement
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Cosmic
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10/26/2008  10:45 AM
Posted by knicks1248:

Cause it sure did for me, at times I had to make sure IT wasn't on the bench. I kept lookin at the shot clock going down to like 10 secs, and no ball movemnt. I though the philosophy was to move the ball and get the best shot.

No, because I didn't have any new found excitement for the team, for me it's just proof that this is the same roster and again if you look back two years ago you'll see a lot of similarities between the seasons (thus far).

New coach, happier players, playing hard and looking promising, coming back against big deficits but falling short, etc.

So far it feels just like the 06/07 season. We'll see how it goes. I don't see why the same roster of players would be dramatically better than that 33 win team was...which was heading for about 38 wins before injuries. It's the same guys and same scenario of a liberating coach taking over a bad situation.
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4949
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10/26/2008  11:17 AM
And that occurred to me the other day. How did' they win 33, only to fail miserably the following year again. It's definately psychological, don't you think? I'm hoping D'Antoni can change their psyche. Maybe they all need a hypnotic suggestion to loos'n the block in their heads.
I'll never trust this' team again.
knicks1248
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10/26/2008  1:41 PM
Funny how in both 06/07 and 07/08 the loses started coming when steph departed. Call me crazy, but when we put together a 6 game win steak in jan of 07 little after that steph got hurt and injuries to the team killed us. Last year we played with out steph for the whole season. I Know i may get killed for this statement, but the truth are in the numbers.

Now Im hearing 30 to 37 wins is exceptable, thats ridiculous if were healthy. Even with the make up of the team, were a .500 team at worse, (talent wise)the last 3 years we were expected to make the playoffs with the current roster, atleast a 7th or 8th seed. Now we have a coach that has a system that some what fits this roster, and will stay on course and not switch up after every win or loss.
ES
oohah
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10/26/2008  2:11 PM
The thing that holds the Knicks back, is the lack of a bonafide franchise player. Only that can make this team truly relevant again. In them meantime, collection of good players or okay can only get you so far.

It doesn't have to be LeBron etc. But the Knicks need a real star to change the direction of the team. Then all of these guys we have can all of a sudden be winners.

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
BlueSeats
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10/26/2008  3:02 PM
Posted by oohah:

The thing that holds the Knicks back, is the lack of a bonafide franchise player. Only that can make this team truly relevant again. In them meantime, collection of good players or okay can only get you so far.

It doesn't have to be LeBron etc. But the Knicks need a real star to change the direction of the team. Then all of these guys we have can all of a sudden be winners.

oohah

So true. Why do people make it more complicated than this with talk about faith, trust and confidence. Who on this team engenders such terms? Who are our best players - Steph, Jamal and ZslacK? Are these players you can trust? Who amoung them embodies leadership? Below them you have guys like Eddy, Lee, Nate and Chandler. Are people expecting such players to carry a team? can't just throw a bunch of earthworms into a box and tell them to move around fast and expect them to spin silk.

I'm not down on MDA adn Walsh, but this year is about culture change (which is slow going with Marbury and Isiah around) and laying the foundations of a system. But I wouldn't expect it to bear all that much fruit till we get some real players in here.
4949
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10/26/2008  3:04 PM
Posted by knicks1248:

Funny how in both 06/07 and 07/08 the loses started coming when steph departed. Call me crazy, but when we put together a 6 game win steak in jan of 07 little after that steph got hurt and injuries to the team killed us. Last year we played with out steph for the whole season. I Know i may get killed for this statement, but the truth are in the numbers.

Why worry about getting killed for the statement. If you have a statistical point, them make it, because I for one didn't realize that until you just brought it up. Make the point stronger, by bringing the proof. I want to know if that was a big part of their two 23 wins seasons.
I'll never trust this' team again.
4949
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10/26/2008  3:11 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by oohah:

The thing that holds the Knicks back, is the lack of a bonafide franchise player. Only that can make this team truly relevant again. In them meantime, collection of good players or okay can only get you so far.

It doesn't have to be LeBron etc. But the Knicks need a real star to change the direction of the team. Then all of these guys we have can all of a sudden be winners.

oohah

So true. Why do people make it more complicated than this with talk about faith, trust and confidence. Who on this team engenders such terms? Who are our best players - Steph, Jamal and ZslacK? Are these players you can trust? Who amoung them embodies leadership? Below them you have guys like Eddy, Lee, Nate and Chandler. Are people expecting such players to carry a team? can't just throw a bunch of earthworms into a box and tell them to move around fast and expect them to spin silk.

I'm not down on MDA adn Walsh, but this year is about culture change (which is slow going with Marbury and Isiah around) and laying the foundations of a system. But I wouldn't expect it to bear all that much fruit till we get some real players in here.

Why not give it all a chance, before you criticize it? And why not go for the best?? LeBron! If we can break Curry and Zach's contracts in half through trades, then that would make it much more possible to try to set up for a LeBron grab. I'm still trying to work out an understanding about us still being over the cap, even if we do (and maybe someone can explain it to me in more detail). And it's not to say that I am not open minded about what direction to take, but I am. It's just that I like to start with the best scenario first and if that doesn't work, then work your way down, until we do get what we want and not just settle for just anyone.
I'll never trust this' team again.
BlueSeats
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10/26/2008  6:38 PM
Posted by 4949:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by oohah:

The thing that holds the Knicks back, is the lack of a bonafide franchise player. Only that can make this team truly relevant again. In them meantime, collection of good players or okay can only get you so far.

It doesn't have to be LeBron etc. But the Knicks need a real star to change the direction of the team. Then all of these guys we have can all of a sudden be winners.

oohah

So true. Why do people make it more complicated than this with talk about faith, trust and confidence. Who on this team engenders such terms? Who are our best players - Steph, Jamal and ZslacK? Are these players you can trust? Who amoung them embodies leadership? Below them you have guys like Eddy, Lee, Nate and Chandler. Are people expecting such players to carry a team? can't just throw a bunch of earthworms into a box and tell them to move around fast and expect them to spin silk.

I'm not down on MDA adn Walsh, but this year is about culture change (which is slow going with Marbury and Isiah around) and laying the foundations of a system. But I wouldn't expect it to bear all that much fruit till we get some real players in here.

Why not give it all a chance, before you criticize it? And why not go for the best?? LeBron! If we can break Curry and Zach's contracts in half through trades, then that would make it much more possible to try to set up for a LeBron grab. I'm still trying to work out an understanding about us still being over the cap, even if we do (and maybe someone can explain it to me in more detail). And it's not to say that I am not open minded about what direction to take, but I am. It's just that I like to start with the best scenario first and if that doesn't work, then work your way down, until we do get what we want and not just settle for just anyone.


i don't get it - give what a chance, and what did i criticize?
BasketballJones
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10/26/2008  6:42 PM
I didn't feel any excitement coming into the preseason, so there was no excitement to zap.
https:// It's not so hard.
SlimPack
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10/26/2008  7:00 PM
Posted by knicks1248:

Funny how in both 06/07 and 07/08 the loses started coming when steph departed. Call me crazy, but when we put together a 6 game win steak in jan of 07 little after that steph got hurt and injuries to the team killed us. Last year we played with out steph for the whole season. I Know i may get killed for this statement, but the truth are in the numbers.

Now Im hearing 30 to 37 wins is exceptable, thats ridiculous if were healthy. Even with the make up of the team, were a .500 team at worse, (talent wise)the last 3 years we were expected to make the playoffs with the current roster, atleast a 7th or 8th seed. Now we have a coach that has a system that some what fits this roster, and will stay on course and not switch up after every win or loss.

Yeah. I think I remember someone pointing out that the Knicks have a better record with Marbury than without. I think the Knicks were something like a .250 team when he didn't play and a .350 team when he did.
Uptown
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10/26/2008  7:24 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by oohah:

The thing that holds the Knicks back, is the lack of a bonafide franchise player. Only that can make this team truly relevant again. In them meantime, collection of good players or okay can only get you so far.

It doesn't have to be LeBron etc. But the Knicks need a real star to change the direction of the team. Then all of these guys we have can all of a sudden be winners.

oohah

So true. Why do people make it more complicated than this with talk about faith, trust and confidence. Who on this team engenders such terms? Who are our best players - Steph, Jamal and ZslacK? Are these players you can trust? Who amoung them embodies leadership? Below them you have guys like Eddy, Lee, Nate and Chandler. Are people expecting such players to carry a team? can't just throw a bunch of earthworms into a box and tell them to move around fast and expect them to spin silk.

I'm not down on MDA adn Walsh, but this year is about culture change (which is slow going with Marbury and Isiah around) and laying the foundations of a system. But I wouldn't expect it to bear all that much fruit till we get some real players in here.

Totally agree. Chandler, Lee and Nate are complimentary players who are being asked to play a starring role. As you say we have no leaders or the much needed young Center or Point Guard who, alone, can set this franchise on the right road and garner the excitement at the start of the year.

The only thing that excites me (if you can call it excitement) is watching Chandler and hopefully Gallo gain some valuable experience and improve. I also want to see the team buy into D'A's system setting the foundation, and watch the culture evolve into somewhat of a professional atmosphere.
Cosmic
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10/26/2008  7:58 PM
Posted by Uptown:


Totally agree. Chandler, Lee and Nate are complimentary players who are being asked to play a starring role. As you say we have no leaders or the much needed young Center or Point Guard who, alone, can set this franchise on the right road and garner the excitement at the start of the year.

The only thing that excites me (if you can call it excitement) is watching Chandler and hopefully Gallo gain some valuable experience and improve. I also want to see the team buy into D'A's system setting the foundation, and watch the culture evolve into somewhat of a professional atmosphere.

It's fun to watch the kids but it gets old quick. This team has a long road to recovery ahead of it and the few players most of us like are unfortunately - REALLY - only worthy of 6-12 status on a contending team.

In that we actually do have a nice bench: Nate, Lee, Chandler, Gallo(who knows tho). Yet we have no worthy starters and it has already shown during preseason where the opponent wiped the floor with us with their starters - and then we looked real good against their backups.

There's some bright spots here but none of them are franchise players. A couple of nice kids who are certainly potent backups for a future team. I'd like it to be for our team, but, we got so much work ahead of ourselves.

You could muse we have our 6-9 locked up..... but when will we get a bonafide 1-5 to start for them?

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BigC
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10/26/2008  8:20 PM
Posted by knicks1248:

Cause it sure did for me, at times I had to make sure IT wasn't on the bench. I kept lookin at the shot clock going down to like 10 secs, and no ball movemnt. I though the philosophy was to move the ball and get the best shot.
There is no way I can feel too excited after watching preseason games. We have seen this movie too many times. Only when I see real winning will I get excited. Until then, this just reminds me of this clip. The guy represents the fans and the Knicks are the woman in the red.



[Edited by - BigC on 10-26-2008 8:24 PM]
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4949
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10/26/2008  8:53 PM
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by 4949:
Posted by BlueSeats:
Posted by oohah:

The thing that holds the Knicks back, is the lack of a bonafide franchise player. Only that can make this team truly relevant again. In them meantime, collection of good players or okay can only get you so far.

It doesn't have to be LeBron etc. But the Knicks need a real star to change the direction of the team. Then all of these guys we have can all of a sudden be winners.

oohah

So true. Why do people make it more complicated than this with talk about faith, trust and confidence. Who on this team engenders such terms? Who are our best players - Steph, Jamal and ZslacK? Are these players you can trust? Who amoung them embodies leadership? Below them you have guys like Eddy, Lee, Nate and Chandler. Are people expecting such players to carry a team? can't just throw a bunch of earthworms into a box and tell them to move around fast and expect them to spin silk.

I'm not down on MDA adn Walsh, but this year is about culture change (which is slow going with Marbury and Isiah around) and laying the foundations of a system. But I wouldn't expect it to bear all that much fruit till we get some real players in here.

Why not give it all a chance, before you criticize it? And why not go for the best?? LeBron! If we can break Curry and Zach's contracts in half through trades, then that would make it much more possible to try to set up for a LeBron grab. I'm still trying to work out an understanding about us still being over the cap, even if we do (and maybe someone can explain it to me in more detail). And it's not to say that I am not open minded about what direction to take, but I am. It's just that I like to start with the best scenario first and if that doesn't work, then work your way down, until we do get what we want and not just settle for just anyone.


i don't get it - give what a chance, and what did i criticize?

Guess I misunderstood what you were saying. Sorry.
I'll never trust this' team again.
knicks1248
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10/26/2008  11:27 PM
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by knicks1248:

Funny how in both 06/07 and 07/08 the loses started coming when steph departed. Call me crazy, but when we put together a 6 game win steak in jan of 07 little after that steph got hurt and injuries to the team killed us. Last year we played with out steph for the whole season. I Know i may get killed for this statement, but the truth are in the numbers.

Now Im hearing 30 to 37 wins is exceptable, thats ridiculous if were healthy. Even with the make up of the team, were a .500 team at worse, (talent wise)the last 3 years we were expected to make the playoffs with the current roster, atleast a 7th or 8th seed. Now we have a coach that has a system that some what fits this roster, and will stay on course and not switch up after every win or loss.

Yeah. I think I remember someone pointing out that the Knicks have a better record with Marbury than without. I think the Knicks were something like a .250 team when he didn't play and a .350 team when he did.

We were better, my point is that, LB got steph to play the way he thought he should play and things started to click, then he got hurt. IT never ever had any real plan and was basically coaching on the fly. There should be some level of excitement going on here because we have a roster of guys tired of losing, and a coach who has always been winning. That sounds like a recipe for success.
ES
SlimPack
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10/27/2008  9:20 AM
Posted by knicks1248:
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by knicks1248:

Funny how in both 06/07 and 07/08 the loses started coming when steph departed. Call me crazy, but when we put together a 6 game win steak in jan of 07 little after that steph got hurt and injuries to the team killed us. Last year we played with out steph for the whole season. I Know i may get killed for this statement, but the truth are in the numbers.

Now Im hearing 30 to 37 wins is exceptable, thats ridiculous if were healthy. Even with the make up of the team, were a .500 team at worse, (talent wise)the last 3 years we were expected to make the playoffs with the current roster, atleast a 7th or 8th seed. Now we have a coach that has a system that some what fits this roster, and will stay on course and not switch up after every win or loss.

Yeah. I think I remember someone pointing out that the Knicks have a better record with Marbury than without. I think the Knicks were something like a .250 team when he didn't play and a .350 team when he did.

We were better, my point is that, LB got steph to play the way he thought he should play and things started to click, then he got hurt. IT never ever had any real plan and was basically coaching on the fly. There should be some level of excitement going on here because we have a roster of guys tired of losing, and a coach who has always been winning. That sounds like a recipe for success.

I don't agree that things would have gone well that Larry Brown season if Steph hadn't got injured.
He recovered before the end of the season, starting playing again, and starting creating a circus by feuding with Larry Brown.

I would argue that this team's problems extend beyond injuries, and on the fly coaching, and that the roster itself simply isn't good.
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