Posted by Pike:

Carlisle will do a better job than Zeke in Indiana.. in my opinion.

[Edited by - Pike on 08/29/2003 11:27:16]

I dont disagree with you on that, but this isnt the point. We are talking the difference between Zeke and Chaney now.

Andrew...ESPN wrote an article on it and they are the gospel I take it? There may be critics out there but there are critics for everybody. ESPN also wrote articles talking negatively about Shaq - would you not take him on your team because of this? The question here is, could Zeke help NYK in the immediate future more so then Chaney can. I think the answer to that question is yes...he is a better coach. He may not be the best coach out there but he is an upgrade over what we have and it is worth debating.

Thomas sucks. He's too soft on players' behavior, and he can't make up his mind on lineups. He's not a good coach, not even close to Chaney. He made a comment last season about Artest's behavior that showed his true nature. He basically stated that Artest put himself in a position that allows other people to "control" him. Thomas sounds like a real weak-minded idiot for that one. Artest's behavior is at fault, not the league front office or the referees. Thomas basically excused Artest's behavior, and there is no excuse for Artest acting the way he did. Thomas should have suspended Ron himself, but Thomas shows a bias towards players over RULES and SPORTSMANSHIP, things that still matter to the average fan, if not to the thug-loving snot-nosed little teenage twerps who think they know basketball.

In other words, Thomas should have condemned Artest for his behavior and promised the public to shape Ronnie up and put him on the right path, and instead tried to blame the league for punishing Artest. Thomas may have been a leader on the court, but on the sideline he is an appeaser, and it bit him hard in the playoffs, because the teamwork crumbled on his watch. I would have fired him a lot sooner. Jermaine O'Neal sounds like a real oversized baby (which is what a lot of NBA players are, so no surprise), and needs to learn that coach's job isn't to fluff up his ego, but to ride him like a mule so he gets the job done, just as long as he doesn't alienate the player in the process, a la Carlisimo.

I swear, some of you guys don't seem to understand the very sport of which you purport to be fans. Chaney has a weak-ass bunch of undersized, overpaid role players, and got them playing good team ball in the second half of the season. Phil Jackson couldn't have made more use of them. It's a bad roster. Chaney isn't a great coach by any stretch, but I'll bet he could have gotten the same Pacers squad past the first round. Zeke is an egomaniacal, soft-on-rules doofus. Playing and coaching are two distinctly different things. Some guys can do both. Most cannot. Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Carlisle will light a fire under their butts. They'll be much more intense. I bet Artest will love Rick's rule. Think "Benevolent Dictator".

Good post, DefAndReb.

I think everyone makes pretty solid points on both sides of the argument. Zeke is obviously not a perfect coach but neither is Chaney. There are some interesting hypotheticals that can be raised about switching coaches though:

1) Lampe is young, Chaney comes from the NY system of benching the young players in favor of the vets - Example Frank Williams (Postell if you think he has talent). Is he the right coach to teach Lampe and Sweetney the ropes? Zeke did give O'neil a lot of help to get him where he is today, you dont call someone a father figure for nothing.
2) O'neil is not happy with Indiana because of the backstabbing and deceit that went on. Granted he makes 120 mil now and will be put in his place, but imagine having the coach he wants to play for (and some players who you can trade to get him - I am aware the Knicks do not have anyone but it is interesting hypothetical)
3) Zeke is not a member of the old Knicks clubs while Chaney to me represents a hold over of an era gone by. He is riding the Riley/Van Gundy wave and has not established himself as a new and original coaching entity. Zeke would be a change, something fresh.

On the other hand you can see that he has an extremly talented team in Indiana and they have not lived up to expectations, especially in the extremly weak east. Artest is a disaster when it comes to his decision making and Zeke didnt help the situation.

The argument here is between Chaney and Zeke who is the better option at this point. It is clear neither of them will solve the problems the Knicks have. This goes all the way up from player personel through ownership, something that isnt fixed over night. Chaney is part of the problem. The decision making on this squad comes from Chaney, Layden and Dolan. There are 3 of them and all 3 need to go. Zeke may not be the best option out there but there should be options the Knicks are looking into because Chaney isnt the answer - someone should come in and teach these young players how to ball.

[Edited by - OasisBU on 08/29/2003 14:40:36]

Def and Oasis both make good points on opposite ends...

How about we ride Chaney until Mark Jax is ready?

I'll take Cooper. Although Chaney has to flunk with 7-footers in the lineup first...

Posted by Knick2001:

Leave things the way they are...high pick in next years draft and then clean house by firing Layden and Chaney. Hiring a new coach alone is not the answer,

We will have to do worse than we did this year - and it would have made more sense to lose last season with Melo, Bron and Darko in the mix. This years prize is Oakfor (sp?)and he will most likely go #1 unless there is other talent out there? Dont get me wrong, I would take Oakfor in a second, but the Knicks arent bad enough to get the #1 pick.

Posted by Knick2001:

Leave things the way they are...high pick in next years draft and then clean house by firing Layden and Chaney. Hiring a new coach alone is not the answer

Good post, man. You hit the nail right on the head.

I hear your point, but what we need right now is someone in the GM spot who can do not one or the other, but BOTH trade and build simultaneously. If LayDown can only do half his job that is more of a reason for him to go. After what he's done to our roster, there is no way he can undo the damage. I would rather see a fresh face come in and try to resolve this mess. We wouldn't be in a "no one wants to help us out" situation if LayDown didn't overpay these cats to the point where we'd have to cut our own throats just to move those contracts. You mentioned the Logo and that situation in Memphis, but they aren't capped out. West has the flexibility to make that a winning club, and even if he was in the exact same spot as LayDown, it would:

• never be because of his own decisionmaking, and


• would be something that he could still make better by trading some of those contracts


• not be as bad a situation because he gets respect throughout the league by virtue of his history both on and off the court

Scott LayDown is a Joke GM that made the New York Knicks into a punchline... but I don't find it funny at all....