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Does Mike D'Antoni Know Something We Don't About Coaching?
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Panos
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10/21/2008  1:40 PM
Posted by nysportsfan11:

Steph will hang himself if you give him enough rope. He's not a leader, so don't make him one.

If you ignore Steph, he usually falls in line. He's been that way since he was a kid. If you make him important, he'll take that as a license to be "the man". If you address him as part of something, with no more or less value than you would anyone else, he calms the **** down. That's why he's always been better with better players and worse when he's the number 1 option. Cremins had the same mentality (even if it didn't extend to anything off the court where he basically let Steph do whatever the hell he wanted.)

In the pros, it worked for Flip and it worked for Lenny before Isiah interjected with stupidity. Isiah believed he was the one who could change him, Larry believed he was the one that could change him. D'Antoni's just doesn't give a damn and didn't when they were in Phoenix either. D'Antoni's personality dictates that he rolls with those who are willing to conform and leaves behind those that don't. Steph wants to play, so Steph will STFU.

He also has a big ****in head.
No, I mean physically.
Why would you tat a head so big, it doesn't get enuf attention already?
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BlueSeats
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10/21/2008  2:23 PM
The unanswerable question is, how would even the great MDA have fared under Isiah? Isiah is a man who's disenfranchised legions of coaches, players, and other GMs. Isiah's autocratic, Napoleonic, messianic, reactionary reign was doomed to failure. He was fcking things up from so many angles all of King1's men couldn't put Humpty Teamty together again.

As much as the Magic Mikeshroom will get the best from everybody, this team is still destined to be purged.



[Edited by - blueseats on 10-21-2008 2:26 PM]
Bippity10
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10/21/2008  2:37 PM
Couple observances:

Let's not give D'Antoni credit for a lot yet. It's still only preseason and Marbs has shown that he can explode at any moment.

That being said: So far so good. Can't deny that. And I understand the early optimism despite the fact that it is only preseason. A lot of that credit has to go to Mike and his leadership. Despite what I'm about to say, anytime guys follow you, you are showing good leadership skills. That being said, as someone else mentioned Mike is just proving something that Bip said years ago and harped on every day:

When the coach has the juice card instead of the players they are forced to fall in line. Mike is being allowed to make the changes he wants to the line-up without question from above. As a former coach I can tell you that this is the single most important thing in coaching. When Mgt makes it clear they will jettison a player that does not listen to the coach, they have nothing to fall back on. End of story.

I told you it would occur when we got a GM and coach on the same page. And now it is occuring. Mark Jackson may or may not have been able to lead as well as Mike has done so far, but any coach that was hired by Walsh was going to have a similar situation. They would have had teh "juice card"
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misterearl
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10/21/2008  3:19 PM
Work In Progress

bippity - D'Antoni deserves plenty of credit because NBA coaches have limited time to set their systems in place. The brief pre season sets the tone for November. If Marbury explodes guess what? No big deal. He explodes and is "all alone".

Besides, Nate is still improving from a solid season and a healthy Mardy is still 6'6 - and neither will complain about the extra minutes. Don't be shocked to see The Mayor at off guard. In D'Antoni's new world order it is about gaining an advantage at a position, instead of reacting to a matchup, and that's cool with me.

Prez - D-Antoni seems to have employed the fine art of custom persuasion in a few cases. If the press reports are accurate, even the prized recruit gets the friendly needle. Note where Galinari is placed on friendly notice,

""He knows how to play,. We just have to get him adapted to the NBA and the American way of life. And how tough the NBA is. The rest is going to be up to him."

Over the next two games, the players who could be fading to Bolivia (thank you Mike Tyson)will be Jamal (selective effort while pounding the rock) Crawford, Jerome (terminal hamburglar impersonation)James , Anthony (this ain't Summer League) Roberson, Eddy ("if you can't slide your feet, you can't compete") Curry - and Allan ("this ain't charity") Houston.

Players who stand to earn precious cameo minutes include Mardy (nice hops) Collins and even Patrick ("my kingdom for a three") Ewing.

You suck. You sit.




[Edited by - misterearl on 10-21-2008 3:39 PM]
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TMS
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10/21/2008  3:43 PM
Marbs carries zero clout around here, he's got no choice but to conform & do what he's told... doesn't mean he's changed at all... he's still gonna gripe if he's not starting & the team is losing, just wait & see... u guys think he's all of a sudden changed his spots after a couple pre-season games?
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
misterearl
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10/21/2008  3:57 PM
TMS - you are missing the point. Marbury can still have a positive impact if he so chooses. D'Antoni has left that door open in a classic military maneuver. Surrender with honor.

Stephon can also do whatever he does off the court, on YouTube, at home, at Steve and Barry's, on Oprah, at Rucker Park, in the truck, at the mall or at the disco. But, If he wants to get on the floor at Madison Square Garden he will need to share the ball by passing it with purpose - and not like a baby reluctantly sharing a pacifier.

He will need to play as part of the team, and enjoy doing it, or get used to the polyblend feel of his adidas warmups.

I'm cool with that.

[Edited by - misterearl on 10-21-2008 3:58 PM]
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martin
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10/21/2008  3:59 PM
Posted by misterearl:

TMS - you are missing the point. Marbury can still have a positive impact if he so chooses. D'Antoni has left that door open in a classic military maneuver.

Stephon can also do whatever he does off the court, on YouTube, at home, at Steve and Barry's, on Oprah, at Rucker Park, in the truck, at the mall or at the disco. But, If he wants to get on the floor at Madison Square Garden he will need to share the ball by passing it with purpose - and not like a baby reluctantly sharing a pacifier.

He will need to play as part of the team, and enjoy doing it, or get used to the polyblend feel of his adidas warmups.

I'm cool with that.

let me fix:

"Stephon can also do whatever he does off the court, on YouTube, at home, at Steve and Barry's, on Oprah, at Rucker Park, in the truck, at the mall or at the disco. But, If he wants to get on the floor at Madison Square Garden he will need to share the ball by passing it with purpose - and not like a baby reluctantly sharing a pacifier get into Mike D'Antoni's truck."
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TMS
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10/21/2008  4:04 PM
Posted by misterearl:

TMS - you are missing the point. Marbury can still have a positive impact if he so chooses. D'Antoni has left that door open in a classic military maneuver. Surrender with honor.

Stephon can also do whatever he does off the court, on YouTube, at home, at Steve and Barry's, on Oprah, at Rucker Park, in the truck, at the mall or at the disco. But, If he wants to get on the floor at Madison Square Garden he will need to share the ball by passing it with purpose - and not like a baby reluctantly sharing a pacifier.

He will need to play as part of the team, and enjoy doing it, or get used to the polyblend feel of his adidas warmups.

I'm cool with that.

[Edited by - misterearl on 10-21-2008 3:58 PM]

there's no point to be missed... the guy can play, who doesn't know this? he's a very talented player & can help us win games... problem is he's all about himself & that's never gonna change... as soon as this team starts to lose games ur gonna see the Starbury we all know & love rear his head once again... it's just a matter of time... stop fooling urselves into thinking this guy's gonna be a good soldier from here on out.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
misterearl
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10/21/2008  4:09 PM
Martin - nice edit job.

Marbury is old news. More important in the shaping of the roster and rotation is the Mike D'Antoni dialogue (behind closed doors or in public) with Eddy Curry.

I miss Marcus Camby
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Bippity10
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10/21/2008  4:16 PM
Posted by misterearl:

Work In Progress

bippity - D'Antoni deserves plenty of credit because NBA coaches have limited time to set their systems in place. The brief pre season sets the tone for November. If Marbury explodes guess what? No big deal. He explodes and is "all alone".

Over the next two games, the players who could be fading to Bolivia (thank you Mike Tyson)will be Jamal (selective effort while pounding the rock) Crawford, Jerome (terminal hamburglar impersonation)James , Anthony (this ain't Summer League) Roberson, Eddy ("if you can't slide your feet, you can't compete") Curry - and Allan ("this ain't charity") Houston.

Players who stand to earn precious cameo minutes include Mardy (nice hops) Collins and even Patrick ("my kingdom for a three") Ewing.

You suck. You sit.

[Edited by - misterearl on 10-21-2008 3:39 PM]

Earl, the first line of my post "Let's not give D'Antoni credit for a lot yet." might have thrown you off so apologize for that. I typed fast and did not get my point across properly. What I meant to say is let's not give D'Antoni credit for the season yet. But if you read the rest of my post(which I'm sure you didn't) you would have seen that you just reiterated and agreed with everything I said. What you said has been a Bip mantra for years now. One of my most common postings. Spend a moment to get to know the people you post with.

As for the fade into Bolivia comment I agree with you. Although the proper word is Bolivian. And this is another one of my running jokes.

I will say it again. Mike is in a position that a coach hasn't had here since Reilly. He can come in and run the team the way he wants and he has the juice card and support of the front office. Those that question him will be marginalized, traded, cut, sent home etc. Things have changed here. I said this would happen years ago. When everyone talked about trades and draft picks to turn us around, Bip was the one that said that the turnaround would occur when you got a GM/Coach that were on the same page. That was the most important step.
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misterearl
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10/21/2008  4:19 PM
bipp - you funny. You want to critique my response on what you "meant" to say?

Cool.

D'Antoni rocks. There is no juice card. Just more assists.
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Bippity10
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10/21/2008  4:26 PM
Posted by misterearl:

bipp - you funny. You want to critique my response on what you "meant" to say?

Cool.

D'Antoni rocks. There is no juice card. Just more assists.

Again, did you read my post? If you read the entire post you would have probably realized that my first sentence was a mistake and realized that you and I are on the same page. Or you could have gone back through the 8500 posts I've made in which I incessantly repeat my same points over and over again and gotten it from that. So yes I am critiquing your ability to read. Just like I'm critiquing my ability to type.

So again, I apologize for the mistype on the first sentence of my post, but I assume that if someone takes the time to respond to me, they have also taken time to read my entire thread before responding. You can just say I'm wrong on that if you want.
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BlueSeats
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10/21/2008  4:35 PM
Posted by martin:
Posted by misterearl:

TMS - you are missing the point. Marbury can still have a positive impact if he so chooses. D'Antoni has left that door open in a classic military maneuver.

Stephon can also do whatever he does off the court, on YouTube, at home, at Steve and Barry's, on Oprah, at Rucker Park, in the truck, at the mall or at the disco. But, If he wants to get on the floor at Madison Square Garden he will need to share the ball by passing it with purpose - and not like a baby reluctantly sharing a pacifier.

He will need to play as part of the team, and enjoy doing it, or get used to the polyblend feel of his adidas warmups.

I'm cool with that.

let me fix:

"Stephon can also do whatever he does off the court, on YouTube, at home, at Steve and Barry's, on Oprah, at Rucker Park, in the truck, at the mall or at the disco. But, If he wants to get on the floor at Madison Square Garden he will need to share the ball by passing it with purpose - and not like a baby reluctantly sharing a pacifier get into Mike D'Antoni's truck."

Or collect some dirt on him.

nixluva
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10/21/2008  4:42 PM
The reason why I don't care that it's only preseason, is that this season isn't just about Wins and Losses. I'm keying in on the way the players have responded to MDA. The way they're executing what he's taught them. They've shown a lot of growth in a very short span of time. They look much more united and focused than we've every seen this group. This is only the beginning of the process and they already look much better than most believed they'd be.

This isn't to say they're a lock to be world beaters just cuz they look good in a few preseason games. That's not the point. This is about the process of moving this team towards future success and changing the culture here. For that i think MDA deserves the credit, cuz I don't know how many coaches would have had the same result.

Part of my view comes from how highly I respected him as a coach to begin with. For those who think he was a creation of Steve Nash's great play, they still have doubts and don't want to give him his due. I for one think he is a top level coach, the equal of the best coaches in this league. He still has to win the big one, to officially be considered a great coach, but I think he could get there if Walsh can get him the players he needs to improve to that level.
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10/21/2008  4:46 PM
Posted by nixluva:

The reason why I don't care that it's only preseason, is that this season isn't just about Wins and Losses. I'm keying in on the way the players have responded to MDA. The way they're executing what he's taught them. They've shown a lot of growth in a very short span of time. They look much more united and focused than we've every seen this group. This is only the beginning of the process and they already look much better than most believed they'd be.

This isn't to say they're a lock to be world beaters just cuz they look good in a few preseason games. That's not the point. This is about the process of moving this team towards future success and changing the culture here. For that i think MDA deserves the credit, cuz I don't know how many coaches would have had the same result.

Part of my view comes from how highly I respected him as a coach to begin with. For those who think he was a creation of Steve Nash's great play, they still have doubts and don't want to give him his due. I for one think he is a top level coach, the equal of the best coaches in this league. He still has to win the big one, to officially be considered a great coach, but I think he could get there if Walsh can get him the players he needs to improve to that level.

Nix: Things look good and there is reason for optimism. Just be careful. Keep in mind we've never been torpedoed by loss of talent. We always get torpedoed by personality. Let's hope that Dolan stays out of things and D'Antoni is able to continue the momentum by finally forcing these guys to earn their time
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BlueSeats
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10/21/2008  4:58 PM
Posted by nixluva:

Part of my view comes from how highly I respected him as a coach to begin with. For those who think he was a creation of Steve Nash's great play, they still have doubts and don't want to give him his due. I for one think he is a top level coach, the equal of the best coaches in this league. He still has to win the big one, to officially be considered a great coach, but I think he could get there if Walsh can get him the players he needs to improve to that level.

For things I've said here before, I might fall under the rubric of those you accuse. Let me just clarify my position. I too think MDA is a top tier coach. I don't think he was the only good choice for us, but he was a good choice for us. He's a good guy to restore credibility, likability and character around here. And as deficient as we've been on defense, we've been equally deficient on ball movement, an MDA is as good as anybody in that department.

However, will still chasten those who see him as some sort of cure all who waives a magic wand and gets the best from everybody. It's simply a matter of fact that his record without Nash, be it in Denver or Phoenix, is around .300.

He gives us a good chance to improve, but he guarantees nothing. The same goes for Walsh. Bringing these guys in was like opening a window so some fresh air can come in, but the stench is still in the building.
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10/21/2008  5:00 PM
Posted by Bippity10:
Posted by nixluva:

The reason why I don't care that it's only preseason, is that this season isn't just about Wins and Losses. I'm keying in on the way the players have responded to MDA. The way they're executing what he's taught them. They've shown a lot of growth in a very short span of time. They look much more united and focused than we've every seen this group. This is only the beginning of the process and they already look much better than most believed they'd be.

This isn't to say they're a lock to be world beaters just cuz they look good in a few preseason games. That's not the point. This is about the process of moving this team towards future success and changing the culture here. For that i think MDA deserves the credit, cuz I don't know how many coaches would have had the same result.

Part of my view comes from how highly I respected him as a coach to begin with. For those who think he was a creation of Steve Nash's great play, they still have doubts and don't want to give him his due. I for one think he is a top level coach, the equal of the best coaches in this league. He still has to win the big one, to officially be considered a great coach, but I think he could get there if Walsh can get him the players he needs to improve to that level.

Nix: Things look good and there is reason for optimism. Just be careful. Keep in mind we've never been torpedoed by loss of talent. We always get torpedoed by personality. Let's hope that Dolan stays out of things and D'Antoni is able to continue the momentum by finally forcing these guys to earn their time

I actually think this issue of Personality was a Isiah Thomas created issue. If he had come in and provided discipline for Steph and all of the players, things wouldn't have gotten so out of hand. Despite his failed team building, he actually added some decent talent. He also messed up the roster too, but the scandals and bad attitudes were a direct result of his lack of leadership.

In sharp contrast MDA and Walsh are in full control and as you point out in full synch with each other. This is why i'm optimistic about the future of this team, cuz the ingredients of failure aren't there anymore. Even if Steph or some other player acts up, they don't have the clout or freedom to do any major damage. They'll be cutoff from the rest of the team and rendered impotent. This is a new regime and they do business much differently.
misterearl
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10/21/2008  7:43 PM
nixluva - looking ahead to 2009, Walsh must have his eyes on at least two 6'11 Marcus Camby clones to play center alongside the replacement playa Jared Jeffries. Curry, unless he undergoes a radical transformation, is as much french toast in this system as Frederick Weis.

Has anybody seen Eric Chenowith?

As those versatile types are difficult to find, there could be a push to find a reasonable facsimile of Dave Cowens. A 6'9 rebounding machine who knows the joy of running the floor. Terry Cummings or Buck Williams anyone?

By 2010, if all goes to plan, the Knicks fast break will be a thing a beauty.

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10/21/2008  9:37 PM
I think you have to realize that some of these guys have only had the dysfunctional version of Larry Brown and Isiah as their coaches. To be in a situation where a guy gives them actual direction, a style of play, and praises them has to be very refreshing. I don't think that there has been a more dysfunctional situation in sports then the Knick/Isiah situation last year.
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misterearl
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10/21/2008  9:57 PM
There may have been more of an perception problem with Curry assuming he was a starter than Marbury claiming a spot in the fav five.

If Eddy was available to play, tonight D'Antoni sent a clear message to Curry with a DNP. Without improvement, Curry is rapidly approaching Hawthorne Wingo status while Walsh works the phones and convinces Dolan to break out the Cablevision checkbook.

Expect the unexpected.
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