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Breaking down INDIVIDUAL performances
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franco12
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10/9/2008  12:33 PM
Posted by oohah:
hat means Zach can't hold the ball like he used to, nor Craw (who seemed to be struggling with this more, and why I wonder if he may not thrive as much as some think). It means you HAVE to look to pass if well defended and not in good position to score, or you aren't following the rules of the system, because shots are only to be taken when you're open

Prez, the reason Crawford will not thrive like Zach is:

A) Zach is naturally a better passer than Crawford because he understands basketball and Crawford does not.
B) Crawford's entire game is based on dribbling. That is because he is basically the ultimate And1 player. he has to put the ball on the floor to get his rhythm and 'thoughts' (I use that term loosely) together.

Crawford does not know how to get the ball and read his options instantly. Marbury on the other hand, can get the ball and attack without thinking and he is good at it. Zach can do it too. Or D'antoni mandates they have to give the ball up to someone in a better position.

For Randolph and Marbury it is more of breaking a bad habit. In Crawford's case he basically has to learn how to play organized team basketball. Ditto Curry.

oohah

I kinda agree- and think that we should package Curry & Crawford instead of Zach, and look to move them during the season.
AUTOADVERT
PresIke
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10/9/2008  12:39 PM
Posted by oohah:
hat means Zach can't hold the ball like he used to, nor Craw (who seemed to be struggling with this more, and why I wonder if he may not thrive as much as some think). It means you HAVE to look to pass if well defended and not in good position to score, or you aren't following the rules of the system, because shots are only to be taken when you're open

Prez, the reason Crawford will not thrive like Zach is:

A) Zach is naturally a better passer than Crawford because he understands basketball and Crawford does not.
B) Crawford's entire game is based on dribbling. That is because he is basically the ultimate And1 player. he has to put the ball on the floor to get his rhythm and 'thoughts' (I use that term loosely) together.

Crawford does not know how to get the ball and read his options instantly. Marbury on the other hand, can get the ball and attack without thinking and he is good at it. Zach can do it too. Or D'antoni mandates they have to give the ball up to someone in a better position.

For Randolph and Marbury it is more of breaking a bad habit. In Crawford's case he basically has to learn how to play organized team basketball. Ditto Curry.

oohah

oohah, guess what...I agree.

I have defended Jamal before, but I am not sure he's a very effective player without the ball either. My observation has also been that this translates to him not even doing well on spot up 3s. I'd like to see him improve at it, and this year we will really see if he can learn to do it. He has a good head on his shoulders and seems to want to do what's right, so maybe it there's a learning curve for him more than most, so we'll see. If not by mid-season...

I think we may see him moved (and probably Curry). Some team around the trade deadline might be interested in scoring punch off the bench, to which he is more than suited for.

That would also help our cap situation significantly, if the right deals are made.

How about Crawford to Orlando for Brian Cook and Tony Battie?
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
Anji
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10/9/2008  12:49 PM
Posted by oohah:
hat means Zach can't hold the ball like he used to, nor Craw (who seemed to be struggling with this more, and why I wonder if he may not thrive as much as some think). It means you HAVE to look to pass if well defended and not in good position to score, or you aren't following the rules of the system, because shots are only to be taken when you're open

Prez, the reason Crawford will not thrive like Zach is:

A) Zach is naturally a better passer than Crawford because he understands basketball and Crawford does not.
B) Crawford's entire game is based on dribbling. That is because he is basically the ultimate And1 player. he has to put the ball on the floor to get his rhythm and 'thoughts' (I use that term loosely) together.

Crawford does not know how to get the ball and read his options instantly. Marbury on the other hand, can get the ball and attack without thinking and he is good at it. Zach can do it too. Or D'antoni mandates they have to give the ball up to someone in a better position.

For Randolph and Marbury it is more of breaking a bad habit. In Crawford's case he basically has to learn how to play organized team basketball. Ditto Curry.

oohah

LOL, I think you are going way over board......... how is Zach a better passer then Jammal??? You telling one preseason game has giving this understanding??? Or is it the over all body of Zach not passing in his career and Jamaal being used at the point in his??

You guys are funny, I remember the knicks in preseason last year and ya'll want to analysis the games that don't count again?? I guess some people don't learn.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
purple012870
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10/9/2008  12:50 PM
Zach is an inferior passer too most people on this website.
purple012870
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10/9/2008  12:51 PM
Craw for Battie & Cook. Wow...that's a bad trade. Reminds me of the summer when some of you wanted to just give away Lee.
PresIke
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10/9/2008  12:59 PM
purple, if Crawford doesn't show that he can fit under system that he can't hold the ball, he has no place here then. Plus, he's not exactly going to net a huge amount of talent back. He's never played for a winner, and is known as a chucker, a clutch one albeit.

That trade would cut 10+ mil under the cap that Jamal will get if he remains. It also frees up the backcourt for us. Problem is with Nate and Duhon we have no real shooting guard, but maybe some other deals or draft picks net us a reliable 2...or if we can sign James or Wade, we have the 2 we need (although I know Lebron really plays the 3, you could run he and Nate in the backcourt).

I would like us to get a high % outside shooter somewhere down the line, especially with D'Antoni's system. Maybe we sign Nash after his contract runs out, on the cheap. Who knows?
Forum Po Po and #33 for a reason...
Allanfan20
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10/9/2008  12:59 PM
Q-Rich: I like his style and leadership, but one thing that bothers me is that he should be running through more screen and rolls. Besides Allan, I am getting a feeling that he might be the best player on the team that does this and it's very valueable to this type of offense being run. Make it happen more!

Zach: I thought he was playing well, on offense until he started hoisting up 3s. I HATE how he does that. It should be avoided at all costs in any system at any time. He's not a 3 point shooter. Have him shoot 13-18 footers but that's it.

Marbury: He played his game and did it pretty well, but I don't think it works here. He's a drive and kick player and I think it more so works for half court offenses. Not knocking his game or the way he played. He did well. I just don't think he's a fit. He played decent defense as well. I don't see how he's gonna stay put if he's playing 20 minutes a game though. He's gonna pout.

PEJ: Why didn't he play?
“Whenever I’m about to do something, I think ‘Would an idiot do that?’ and if they would, I do NOT do that thing.”- Dwight Schrute
Nalod
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10/9/2008  1:07 PM
Zack: team player and increasing his value. Walsh might be right long term.

Duhan: 10 boards! I imagine many defensive and when a point starts the transition, its that much faster. Duhan did 4 years under coach K and im sure MDA had some nice talks about Duhan in china. He'll be solid in time.
ramtour420
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10/9/2008  2:33 PM
Chandler -was a bit off with his shot, like the rest of the team but he did hit a bomb in the beginning, dunno if it was a 3 or if he had his foot on the line. He also made a mistake when him and craw were on the fast break, he was cutting towards the hoop but let Craws pass hit him in the face. Not cool.On D i thought he was our best player, not sure how many blocks he had but i saw him altering shots, poking the ball away so that we could get a rebound, he was hustling out there.
Nate was solid, his shot was off as well, that dunk was insane tho ! on defence he was constantly applying pressure, playing the passing lanes and had a few deflections.
Craw's shot was waaay off and he really seemed to struggle without the ball, although he did surprise me with his d- especially in the beginning of the game when he had like 3 deflections. He could really help us shore up our team d if he builds on how this game went.
Marbs was really trying, passing the ball a lot and playing d. He doesn't move without the ball tho, so its gonna be really hard for him, like for Jamal, to be effective in this system unless he is running a fast break.
Lee and Zbo were great. They seem to be on their way to the best season in their careers.

Go Knicks
Everything you have ever wanted is on the other side of fear- George Adair
oohah
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10/9/2008  2:54 PM
LOL, I think you are going way over board......... how is Zach a better passer then Jammal??? You telling one preseason game has giving this understanding??? Or is it the over all body of Zach not passing in his career and Jamaal being used at the point in his??

You guys are funny, I remember the knicks in preseason last year and ya'll want to analysis the games that don't count again?? I guess some people don't learn.

I am not basing this on a season, I am basing it on their careers. Randolph averages 1.6 assists for his career at the PF position, Crawford averages 4 assists, and that has been padded by his playing PG for the last 2.5 seasons. It has never been Randolph's job to be a distributor like Crawford. He has been asked to be a scorer and rebounder. Crawford is a horrible passer who has developed one trick pass in his whole career which is to throw an alley-oop to one guy Curry.

When have you ever seen Jamal Crawford lead a guy with a pass? Or execute a give and go? Or recognize that the defense has shifted and someone else is open the way Randolph did yesterday when he saw Robinson and set him up for a dunk?

You can say that Randolph is selfish, but when he wants to pass he is good at it. Crawford is too dumb of a player to be truly selfish, he just doesn't understand passing or how offensive opportunities are developing for his teammates.

You're pretty funny, you've been talking about how Crawford can do this or that the whole time you have been posting here when in fact he is not the best on the Knicks at any skills except hotdog plays and fancy dribbling that accomplishes nothing. 4.0 assists for his career, and he has played ridiculous minutes and had the ball in his hands for most of his career.

'nuff said.

oohah



[Edited by - oohah on 09-10-2008 3:02 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
oohah
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10/9/2008  3:03 PM
Posted by purple012870:

Zach is an inferior passer too most people on this website.

That's interesting, he has averaged 2.0 assists per game for the last 5 seasons, approximately 25% better than the average for his position. I wish Curry were that horrible of a passer!

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
Anji
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10/9/2008  3:06 PM
Preseason game 1.......... nuff said.

We've run the gambit of coaches from Brown to Lenny to Isiah and Mike D and you telling me your the first person to conclude that JC can't pass and he is actaully worse then Zach???

What can I say, really.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
McK1
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10/9/2008  3:30 PM
Posted by Allanfan20:


Marbury: He played his game and did it pretty well, but I don't think it works here. He's a drive and kick player and I think it more so works for half court offenses. Not knocking his game or the way he played. He did well. I just don't think he's a fit.

Marbury 7 fta in 22 minutes. Crawford + Duhon + Robinson 12 fta in a combined 91 minutes and 3 of Crawfords fta came on some idiot trying to actually block his 3 at the end of the game after he had Craw bottled up in the corner.

Steph still brings an element none of those other guys and noone else on the team cept for Zach does, drawing the contact and finishing (didn't include Curry cuz he is too libel to pick up the charge when he tries to put the ball on the floor and create).

NY isn't fielding a target team. Do you really gamble on Craw Nate Q Duhon Chandler Lee Jeffries keeping you in the game with quick open looks?

[Edited by - McK1 on 09-10-2008 3:37 PM]
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
oohah
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10/9/2008  3:40 PM
Posted by Anji:

Preseason game 1.......... nuff said.

We've run the gambit of coaches from Brown to Lenny to Isiah and Mike D and you telling me your the first person to conclude that JC can't pass and he is actaully worse then Zach???

What can I say, really.

It has nothing to do with preseason, please understand that. It is his career. You keep on waiting for him to geet it, but please don't hold your breath because I like you!

***

I'm the first guy to conclude Jamal can't pass? That is the funniest thing I've read yet! They all knew Jamal is a poor passer, especially LB. A better question is why are you the only guy who doesn't realize that Crawford is a horrible passer?

Jamal Crawford 2007-2008 season: Primary ball handler, 5 assists, 2.4 turnovers per game. That blows.

oohah




[Edited by - oohah on 09-10-2008 3:42 PM]
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
oohah
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10/9/2008  3:49 PM
P.S. Angie, why don't you walk it like you talk it and make a prediction? http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=28345

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
nixluva
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10/9/2008  5:10 PM
Jamal actually played very well in the past when he was asked to make quicker decisions. When he would be used coming off curls a la Rip Hamilton, he shot a better %. It may take him a bit longer to feel comfortable, but I believe he'll get there.

Duhon did what you most want from a player, if you aren't having a good game do other things. He hit the boards hard, showing that he didn't stop playing hard just cuz his shot wasn't falling. I'm not expecting that he'll be spectacular, but hopefully much more efficient and steady.

Lee and Zach make for a decent frontcourt. Yeah they can't block shots, but they do a lot of other things very well. I'm excited to see how much better they'll get over time.

I'm happy to see the team actually doing the things it needs to do in terms of sharing the ball and moving. As much as I slammed Isiah last year, it was for his failure do just what MDA is doing right now. It's pretty much the same guys and as I felt then it is possible for them to play better team ball. I hope they keep it up and are encouraged to work even harder to perfect what they're learning.
Ira
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10/9/2008  8:01 PM
This kind of offense is fun to watch. I was surprised that the Knicks have picked it up as quickly as they have. Our big guys looked good - Zach, Lee, Q and Chandler give us a competitive front court without Curry. Duhon had a bad game. Marbury did a good job of getting to the line. Nate was born for this system.
Ira
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10/9/2008  8:02 PM
One more thing. Zach shouldn't shoot the three.
Anji
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10/9/2008  8:08 PM
Posted by oohah:

P.S. Angie, why don't you walk it like you talk it and make a prediction? http://ultimateknicks.com/forum/topic.asp?t=28345

oohah

P.S.S

I'll predict you'll want to let that thread die...........
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
Markji
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10/10/2008  7:30 AM
Posted by Ira:

One more thing. Zach shouldn't shoot the three.
I agree....except of course if he has the ball at half-court with 1 second left.

Didn't Zach just put another one in at the buzzer?
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
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