TMS - u really really wanna tell me that's the play that Isiah called, or wanted to see? Zach w/an iso at the top of the key w/the shotclock winding down? please dude... yes it happens to 90% of the players at some point or another, & each one of those times i'd say at least 90% of the time it's the fault of that player making that boneheaded gaffe on the play, not the coaching, or lack thereof.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by tkf:

Posted by TMS:

Posted by Ira:

Thanks, Markji. I never got the 'Zach is a cancer' bit that's so popular here. He turned out to be a horrible fit, but that wasn't his fault. Considering his health and weight, Curry isn't going to be able to work his way into the rotation for a while. I'm glad we have Zach.

this wasn't Zach's fault?

yea, that was zach's fault, but looking at the big picture, we don't need to harp on that one silly play by zach, but how we as a team got to such a point where players would even th'm ink to do that?...

we know that shot was zach's fault, but again looking at the bigger picture the coach and GM allowed that toxic atmosphere to exist, even thrive..



[Edited by - tkf on 06-10-2008 9:50 PM]

i'm not harping only on that one play, it's the overall non-effect he's had on this team (at least positive effect)... i think his supposed "20 & 10" numbers are just about as hollow & transparent as they get... his teams in POR sucked too when he became a mainstay in the rotation so it's not like it's anything new w/him... what was this, the 3rd or 4th 20-something win team he's been a major part of over his relatively short career? i lost count... i don't see any new system created by D'Antoni making him into a great player for us... the only way i can ever fathom Zach being a good player & impacting games to result in success for our franchise is if he's the 2nd or 3rd scoring option & we have a stud like Lebron, Kobe or someone else of that stature leading the squad, but that'll never have a chance to happen cuz Zach's contract is pretty much the main reason why we can't land guys like that... so yeah, i still think he needs to go... i don't care what i hear from D'Antoni about how much of a pro he's been in training camp or how much i hear him say he wants to be a team player this year... i'll believe in Zach when i see it resulting in a lotta W's, & i don't see that happening.

Posted by Markji:

TMS - u really really wanna tell me that's the play that Isiah called, or wanted to see? Zach w/an iso at the top of the key w/the shotclock winding down? please dude... yes it happens to 90% of the players at some point or another, & each one of those times i'd say at least 90% of the time it's the fault of that player making that boneheaded gaffe on the play, not the coaching, or lack thereof.

Of course Isiah didn't call that play. The entire point is that Isiah didn't call ANY play. Nor did the Knicks practice what to do when there are only 5 or 6 seconds left in the half and the ball has to be brought upcourt. If the team was the least bit together, a guard would have had control of the ball and passed it to someone open for a shot.

Last year ---just write it off to Isiah and the entire team mess. You can't single out plays from last year to prove your point this year. It is an entirely different situation. And that is the point.

Posted by Ira:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by Markji:

Posted by Bonn1997:

Posted by Ira:

Thanks, Markji. I never got the 'Zach is a cancer' bit that's so popular here. He turned out to be a horrible fit, but that wasn't his fault. Considering his health and weight, Curry isn't going to be able to work his way into the rotation for a while. I'm glad we have Zach.

Why? Even if he, for the first time in his career, helps his team win games, we'll still be a bad team. What matters is cap space in 2010.

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 10-06-2008 07:03 AM]

I don't agree with the idea that the only thing that matters is 2010 cap space. What matters to me as a fan is that the team pulls itself together; gets rid of all of the conflicts from previous years; and plays good, enjoyable basketball. Also, if you want to trade Zach for cap space, then him playing well with no disturbances will help that.

I don't buy into the idea of we'll be terrible for 2 years and then in 2010 we'll get our savior and then we'll be great. We have to start being good now and keep improving so we have a solid core of players for the 2010 FA. And it isn't even guaranteed that we can land a top FA in 2010.

I wouldn't say that we have to be bad for the next 2 years. I'd say that the difference between 23 and 31 wins doesn't mean a whole lot to me though. And Zach must be off this team by 2010 so that we can get a *real* star player or perhaps *two* (one in 2010 and one in 2011).

You're definitely right that him playing better should make trading him easier but it will take a reputation change, not merely a statistical change where he improves back to his 24/10 Portland stats. He's gonna have to actually play hard for the first time in his life on both ends of the court. He's gonna have to share the ball with his teammates for the first time in his life. He's gonna have to not be a jerk who fights with his teammates for the first time in his life whenever times get tough. Impossible? No. Likely? No.

He does share the ball. In his last three seasons, he had 2, 2.2 and 2 assists per game respectively. For big men, that's pretty good. Garnett, Boozer, Duncan, Nowitzki and Diaw do better, but that's about it in the nba. It's no secret that Zach is a very good rebounder. The only thing lacking is his defense. But that's also the case with Chris Bosch and Amare Stoudemire. Some big men just don't have quick enough feet to be good defenders.

Well I think you're nitpicking on one point rather than looking at the overall point. That said, I think you have to take into account turnovers when talking about sharing the ball because Zach's turns it over because he's unwilling to give the ball up much more often than those other players do.

Posted by fimslim3:

That play was Zach's fault, he was dribbling the ball for about three seconds, lost his dribble, got it back, dribbled again and chucked it. What was he doing out on top of the key to begin with and why didn't he pass it to Nate Robinson....