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No McDyess this year VERY POSSIBLE...
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Nedyal1
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8/27/2003  3:08 PM
what a lot of you are missing is not that the draft picks were genious or not, the fact that we kept all three picks show a turnaround in thinking for the future. The team might not be that great this year, and thus another trip to the lottery. If we are not panicking to trade, signing bloated retread players, or trading the picks, then we are rebuilding. IF so, then Laydogs sins are behind us. If a new GM came in and did the same, it would be the same result.

How many "threw in" our little ole 2nd round 30th pick as a sweetner to some internet trade rumor as part of a package for Fizer or crawford,or Swift, etc, and by the grace of god it turned to Lampe!

Well give Laydog some credit for keeping the pick. Give him credit to get him signed! On some posts we read to throw him 2 mil a year! That would be a waste, he came much cheaper! It will take time to undo the bad deals, but we got lucky this year, and perhaps milos comes and becomes the real deal.

The future is not KVH, or h20, its in the rookies and players unknown to us at this point.

Luck is when opportunity and preparation collide!
THE PROBLEM AT HAND MUST BE SOLVED WITH A HIGHER LEVEL OF THINKING THAN THAT IN WHICH IT WAS CREATED: ALBERT EINSTIEN
AUTOADVERT
Caseloads
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8/27/2003  3:35 PM
Posted by Nedyal1:

what a lot of you are missing is not that the draft picks were genious or not, the fact that we kept all three picks show a turnaround in thinking for the future. The team might not be that great this year, and thus another trip to the lottery. If we are not panicking to trade, signing bloated retread players, or trading the picks, then we are rebuilding. IF so, then Laydogs sins are behind us. If a new GM came in and did the same, it would be the same result.

How many "threw in" our little ole 2nd round 30th pick as a sweetner to some internet trade rumor as part of a package for Fizer or crawford,or Swift, etc, and by the grace of god it turned to Lampe!

Well give Laydog some credit for keeping the pick. Give him credit to get him signed! On some posts we read to throw him 2 mil a year! That would be a waste, he came much cheaper! It will take time to undo the bad deals, but we got lucky this year, and perhaps milos comes and becomes the real deal.

The future is not KVH, or h20, its in the rookies and players unknown to us at this point.

Luck is when opportunity and preparation collide!
True. We gotta wait and see.
Van Horn isn't the future - Van Horn was picked up to shift gears, away from Spree and towards compliance within the organization - which is fine. Yes, spree was awesome, and a spectacle, but we went no where with him the last 2 years. And however he broke his hand, it was irresponsible, period. You've got to protect yourself if you're an athlete, and if you do get injured, report it, so you can get the appropriate medical attention. With Spree missing the first 10 or so games of the season, the Knicks fell into a hole that meant missing the playoffs, AND getting a bad lottery pick.
The knicks' hope is for Lampe to be a EuroStar/Messiah, b/c Sweetney at 9 was just the safest pick, although in retrospect, we should have taken Travis Outlaw. Sweetney will have a rough time in the league and supplant 'Spoon as the player who gets his shot blocked the most. I mean, over the summer, Sweetney got stuffed so many times, I thought the guy was a turkey!
Let's see if Milos comes over in a year or two. By then, Ward will be FINITO, Frank Williams will be or will not be the real deal, Lampe and Vranes will be on their way to something and our nucleus can grow together.
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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8/27/2003  5:28 PM
Now to catch up on some responses:

bb10- If a basic understanding of the goings on amazes you, it's no wonder you think I am a reverend. You need God in ya life THAT BAD if you are gonna put the gun to your own head and say that there's no such thing as "blind optimism" when in the next sentence you compare being "hopeful" to being a "crime". Hopeful is when you don't have to worry that your star players missing his 3rd season rehabbin'. Now look at Allan Houston. If he's not back, look for Van Hype to be featured on offense. You won't hear "ooohs", but "BOOOOOO"'s at that spectacle. See how quick u snap outta that "hopeful" stuff then, bruh.

playa- You show an article on Houston, but HE may not be back at the start of this season either! I said I have a gut feeling that things will not go well this season (standings-wise) and look how it's starting to unravel already. We're gonna have to just weather the storm and hope that in the end all the problems are washed away (read: LayDown, Doh-Lan, Allan's contract, Keith Van Hype going bust and getting traded AGAIN, etc.). At this point, it may be the only way the team can REALLY get better. I guess you're a victim of that Blind Optimism too, among other things. It's a damn shame.



[Edited by - HARDCOREKNICKSFAN on 08/27/2003 17:29:09]
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
WOODMANnYk
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8/28/2003  9:43 AM
Rev. Hardcore, i wouldn't call it basic understanding, more like your own personal feelings towards MGMT. Why the negative thinking you show towards the Knicks. You need to give them a chance crying out loud. You act as the knicks are already battling for the upcoming lottery. The season hasn't started yet. If MCDyess don't come back which i strongly feel he will then other players on the team are gonna have to step it up. This team for the upcoming season looks much younger and bigger from last yr. Chaney has more options then he did all of last season. You need to stop thinking something bad is bound to happen and look forward to a competive season. Have confidence on the Knicks coaching staff and players. Stop the bitchin!!
The Future. GO KNICKS!
Pike
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8/28/2003  10:30 AM
... and I say, take off your rose colored glasses and stop the BS. This team stinks and will be no pleasure to watch. The young guys who may or may not turn out good, aren't going to make a significant impact for awhile. This is a ninth place team in the East, looking at this optimistically.

Sorry, dream on... if you like.
WOODMANnYk
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8/28/2003  11:33 AM
Posted by Pike:

... and I say, take off your rose colored glasses and stop the BS. This team stinks and will be no pleasure to watch. The young guys who may or may not turn out good, aren't going to make a significant impact for awhile. This is a ninth place team in the East, looking at this optimistically.

Sorry, dream on... if you like.

You say that cause what you see on paper.. Wait til they play the games. I would acknowledge your point only if the Knicks were in the west but in the pathetic sorry-*** east, anything can happen. Besides NJ and Detroit, whose made significant changes for the better????
The Future. GO KNICKS!
Pike
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8/28/2003  12:37 PM
Well for starters... three teams that were actually behind us... Cleveland, Washington and Miami... all of whom are currently better than the Knicks in my opinion.

I predict each of these teams finishes higher than us. At least the first two.

[Edited by - Pike on 08/28/2003 12:38:36]
Andrew
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8/28/2003  1:45 PM
Pike...I guess we will see if those teams are better. Washington lost Jordan, but gained Arenas....seems like a wash to me but they had the same record as the Knicks so I wouldn't doubt if they did do a little better next year with some experience.

Does Odom get the Heat 12 more wins...especially when the Heat seem intent on playing their rookie? I don't think so.

Does Lebron make Cleveland 20 games better? I really doubt it.

I'd say the Knicks are better than 2 of the 3. If McDyess comes back for more 1/2 a season, the Knicks are better than all 3.
PURE KNICKS LOVE
Pike
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8/28/2003  2:36 PM
I don't think so, Andrew... let the season begin... we'll find out.
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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8/28/2003  7:38 PM
Pike, I told knicksbb10 that very same thing in person to his face.
Bb, if I am "bitchin", then so are the majority of NYK fans who have the sense (read: basic understanding) to see what this goddamn mess really looks like. Are those rose-colored glasses THAT dirty?

Just because the Knicks are my team I don't have to agree with every move this sorry excuse for NYK management makes.

Many of us refuse to buy into the LayDown lines of just bigging up this madness and are brave enough to call it what it is...

A shambles.

Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
Pike
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8/28/2003  11:38 PM
Amen, brother, AMEN!!

The truth is the truth whether some people around here want to acknowledge it or not. Believe me, I derive no pleasure seeing the team I love for forty plus years be in its current state.. shambles, as you put it.

Yet if enough people say... I'M ANGRY AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE... maybe even the idiot Dolan will start to get it though his thick skull.

WOODMANnYk
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8/29/2003  9:09 AM
Pike and all you knicks fans out there, Hardcore and i are longtime friends. We talk about the knicks all the time. My thing is, us knicks fans truly understand the horrific decision making on Mgmt part but that still doesn't mean to not support ya team or give up on the season when it haven't even started yet. Hardcore, you constantly bash Knicks mgmt. ok, cool! Nothing wrong with that but don't kill some of the players who wear the knicks uniform. If that's the case then why did you and i bother renewing our season tickets status for the upcoming season. Doesn't make any sense bashing knicks mgmt or certain players but have no probelm making Dolan, Laydown and Mills even richer by dishing out your dough and going to the games. You got the nerve to call people out who you say switches up but what do you think you're doing by killing mgmt but still going to the games as a season ticket holder????
Pretty much when you're @ the garden watching the games, you'll be the one wearing those glasses so no one can recognize you after several occasions repeatedly killing knicks mgmt but without hestitation, able to dish out ya $$$$$$ to the current regime(Dolan,LAydon and Mills).
The Future. GO KNICKS!
playa2
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8/29/2003  9:48 AM
I knew Hardcore was soft as "BLUE CHEESE"! Here he is bashing Dolan and Layden and then he gets pimped by them by making money(from working) and then hands it over to MSG. ROFLMAO. Thanks for exposing this guy KnicksBB10
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
Pike
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8/29/2003  11:33 AM
knicksbb10, it's two different approaches to "fan"dom, if you will. Our position is, if we truly are fans, which is without question... it is our duty to speak out because attitudes and apathy towards current management only keeps Layden in his job. Even if you don't believe this... I'd rather be considered a malcontent where it applies to the Knicks... than taking a rah-rah, team... fool hearted approach.

I always laugh at people who call us bad fans because of this... to me it's funny. Frankly though, I wouldn't spend my hard earned money on this rift-raft of a team. However, at least in Hardcore's case... he'll have the opportunity to exercise his first ammendment rights this season. Give 'em hell, HARDCORE!!
WOODMANnYk
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8/29/2003  3:02 PM
Posted by Pike:

knicksbb10, it's two different approaches to "fan"dom, if you will. Our position is, if we truly are fans, which is without question... it is our duty to speak out because attitudes and apathy towards current management only keeps Layden in his job. Even if you don't believe this... I'd rather be considered a malcontent where it applies to the Knicks... than taking a rah-rah, team... fool hearted approach.

I always laugh at people who call us bad fans because of this... to me it's funny. Frankly though, I wouldn't spend my hard earned money on this rift-raft of a team. However, at least in Hardcore's case... he'll have the opportunity to exercise his first ammendment rights this season. Give 'em hell, HARDCORE!!

True that!! I see where you coming from.. Those were valid pts you broke down on how Hardcore and other knick fans have the right to express how they feel towards Knicks Mgmt which is led by the Regime of Terror.(Dolan,Laydown and Mills) When it comes to players wearing the uniform, i just feel we should give them a chance to show us what they're made of. If, during the season, Van Horn shows his horrible self again, then we could bash him all we want. That goes for anyone on the knicks Squad.
The Future. GO KNICKS!
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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8/29/2003  5:03 PM
Posted by playa2:

I knew Hardcore was soft as "BLUE CHEESE"! Here he is bashing Dolan and Layden and then he gets pimped by them by making money(from working) and then hands it over to MSG. ROFLMAO. Thanks for exposing this guy KnicksBB10

You just proved how mentally deficient you are, playa(self)...

How u gonna even let a word like "pimped" when you suck every cat who u COPY and PASTE ya posts from? You are a hoe that turns tricks for free! I can go to games and still voice my opinion when I disagree with idiot management moves. It ain't rocket science, chump. If anybody exposes anyone in here it's EVERYBODY exposing your fickle *** when you make backwards comments like that.
There's no need for anyone to expose me because I stand by what I bring to the table.

Now on to my boy knicksbb10...

I see I gotta clean those glasses for ya...
I go to games and voice my displeasure with some of these moves. So you believe that I can't criticize the team because of that? What the hell kinda sense does that make? I said to you that I am going to the Garden with my "Fire Layden" T-shirt and YOU said you were gonna do the same thing! Who's the hypocrite? You bigged up LayDown, calling him a genius for the draft and I had to call you on it (read the threads if you forgot). How many times have I let your flip-floppin' on LayDown slide? Nobody this way is "bitchin" or "switchin". I stand by my words on a consistent basis, and the very history of my posts prove that. Now your posting history is quite the contrary (and the threads speak for themselves- everyone can read them and see exactly what I mean). I wasn't gonna let that cat out of the bag, but stepping to me like that left me no choice but to draw down the ammo.
I compared Van Hype to Charles Stiff (both Knicks who some didn't like before they got here and when they got here with GOOD reason) when we spoke on this just yesterday. You said you agreed with that, but then you accuse ME of hypocrisy? Please bruh, choose a side and stick with it. That fence riding style is more suitable for hoes like playa, who gets NO respect from ANYONE with ANY kind of sense up in this forum.

Next time, think though what you are gonna post completely before you type it. Playa is the only clown we need in here.
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
HARDCOREKNICKSFAN
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8/29/2003  5:39 PM
Posted by knicksbb10:
Posted by Pike:

knicksbb10, it's two different approaches to "fan"dom, if you will. Our position is, if we truly are fans, which is without question... it is our duty to speak out because attitudes and apathy towards current management only keeps Layden in his job. Even if you don't believe this... I'd rather be considered a malcontent where it applies to the Knicks... than taking a rah-rah, team... fool hearted approach.
I always laugh at people who call us bad fans because of this... to me it's funny. Frankly though, I wouldn't spend my hard earned money on this rift-raft of a team. However, at least in Hardcore's case... he'll have the opportunity to exercise his first ammendment rights this season. Give 'em hell, HARDCORE!!

True that!! I see where you coming from.. Those were valid pts you broke down on how Hardcore and other knick fans have the right to express how they feel towards Knicks Mgmt which is led by the Regime of Terror.(Dolan,Laydown and Mills) When it comes to players wearing the uniform, i just feel we should give them a chance to show us what they're made of. If, during the season, Van Horn shows his horrible self again, then we could bash him all we want. That goes for anyone on the knicks Squad.

Yeah Pike, you know how I do it! I am gonna go to the Garden and get midieval on these RahRah punks! Dolan and Laydown will catch all hell from the HARDCOREKNICKSFAN. Thanks for telling this cat knicksbb10 the same thing I have said to him for years. Just keep in mind that you may find yourself breaking that basic understanding down to him serveral times before it sinks in.

BB, I plan on booing Van Hype and having a boatload of reasons (that have already been discussed) to do so. There's no way I am gonna back down from that. I don't care what tactics are used (pleading, the neutral "wait and see" approach, futile attempts to expose some kind of inconsistency in my stances (which was obivously an ill-advised moveLOL), etc.) I have no problem going on record saying that we're more than likely gonna get scraped this season. If I end up being wrong, then I am man enough to admit it. If I end up right, I know that some postas that have been masochistic enough to try to go head-to-head with me will come down with the usual amnesiac symptoms that fickle fans usually do when they call something wrong. I am more than ready for that. Will you be one of those (like playa already is)? Hopefully not. We all gotta get in where we fit in.

[Edited by - HARDCOREKNICKSFAN on 08/29/2003 17:41:24]
Another season, and more adversity to persevere through. We will get the job done, even BETTER than last year. GO KNICKS!
playa2
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8/30/2003  1:45 AM
Yea I make the forum go , I stir the pot and some of you believe the hype. I LOVE NY
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
WOODMANnYk
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8/30/2003  6:19 AM
Hardcore, please don't put me in the same sentence or conversation with that dude(Playa 2) Whatever you two had going on in the past is none of my business. Now, i never indicated that you were a hyppcrite but if the shoes fits.. In a previous statement, Pike commented "However, at least in Hardcore's case... he'll have the opportunity to exercise his first ammendment rights this season. Give 'em hell, HARDCORE!!" Cool with that but a stupid move if you think it's gonna make a difference. Mgmt is still gonna get the best out of you as long as you dished all that $$$$$ into their big pockets.. That's their main objective. You think Laydown or Dolan cares what you say about them?? You think you wearing a Fire Laydown tee-shirt is gonna make a difference??? Don't think so!! If you think you're gonna make a difference @ the game by verbally bashing Knicks Mgmt, you should remember 2 things a) They got your season ticket holder $$$$$, LOL!! 2) You say more with silence than you ever do with words
I guess you and Done Chaney will be holding hands together wearing tee-shirts reading DEAD MEN WALKING!!!


[Edited by - knicksbb10 on 08/30/2003 06:30:56]

[Edited by - knicksbb10 on 08/30/2003 06:32:07]

[Edited by - knicksbb10 on 08/30/2003 06:32:52]
The Future. GO KNICKS!
playa2
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8/30/2003  12:34 PM
A suckers is born at the Garden every year.
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
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