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Alan Hahn: Memphis decides to pass on Zach
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Markji
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9/20/2008  5:46 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by Markji:

We can't trade our first round picks! Period! Unless we get a first round player in return.

Regarding Zach - he's in camp, working out. Shows he is trying! D'A will be demanding of all of the players. And I think the players respect D'A. He should be able to get more out of them. I'm in wait and see mode.

So you work well and want to give it your all when your bosses basically tell you that they don't want you there and want to replace you as soon as the best candidate becomes available. I bet you would really respect your company and try to be best and most productive employee. Good luck with that.

[Edited by - pharzeone on 09-20-2008 1:25 PM]
Motivation is a key in all jobs, but especially sports. Athletes are usually very emotional people. Last year the entire team was affected by all of the crap going on. It's a new year; new management; new coach; a new chance for every player. If you can just understand this....give everyone a chance in your own mind. Then see who can perform and who can't under D'A.

Also, D'A is under the gun as well. He is being paid $5 million/year to get these guys to play up to their potential and to play as a team. So I am giving him a chance and will evaluate as the season progresses. We haven't even started pre-season yet.

In saying all of this, I do believe it would be better to trade Zach before the season starts, but only if a decent deal arises.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
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Markji
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9/20/2008  5:56 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Markji:

We can't trade our first round picks! Period! Unless we get a first round player in return.

Regarding Zach - he's in camp, working out. Shows he is trying! D'A will be demanding of all of the players. And I think the players respect D'A. He should be able to get more out of them. I'm in wait and see mode.

I would agree to a point. If we sincerely received a deal like the Clippers where we could just give up a 2012 # 1 pick and Randolph and get all that money off the books basically guaranteeing FA in 2010- and we get back their second round pick you do it. When IT gave away number 1 picks he was just overpaying for the player. Giving this pick we get back FA and rid ourselves of Randolph. The mistake that will come back to haunt us is the Clipper deal. Basically we have to play Curry and Randolph again and it wont mesh at all. We had our chance to move him--if there was some cost involved in a 2012 # 1 pick so be it.
Some people make it sound like it is guaranteed that we will sign LeBron James and instantly be a top team. So our 2012 pick won't be a good one. Well, LeB, or another top tier FA may sign with us. or may not. But even if they do, it doesn't make us a top team unless we have a good supporting cast. Right now, to get under the cap we will have to jetison most of our veterans. I am not talking just Marbury, but probably Jamal, Q, maybe Nate or Lee, Curry, etc. Who will we have left? Not a very strong supporting cast. So our 2012 year may or may not be good. But also, we need to keep adding young players who can be starters or strong role players off the bench. For that, #1 picks are very needed.

If we trade our #1 pick, we need to get something good back. Not just be able to trade Zach.
The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. Tom Clancy - author
azamatbagatov
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9/20/2008  5:57 PM
Then after he gets locked up for punching a stripper in the face and having an entourage member shoot a bouncer we'll never be able to trade him.....
"I want to leave a legacy." ~ Isiah Thomas
Bonn1997
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9/20/2008  6:08 PM
Posted by Cookdcokehop:

Blessing in disguise
Let's not go overboard here. You disliked the trade. We get it. But nothing involving keeping Zach Randolph is a blessing! Were we
"blessed" with his presence last season?

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 09-20-2008 6:09 PM]
GKFv2
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9/20/2008  6:14 PM
C'mon man. Give the guy a break. Look at his username. He's obviously on some sort of drug. Coke maybe?
Thank you, Rick Brunson.
Cookdcokehop
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9/20/2008  6:45 PM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Cookdcokehop:

Blessing in disguise
Let's not go overboard here. You disliked the trade. We get it. But nothing involving keeping Zach Randolph is a blessing! Were we
"blessed" with his presence last season?

[Edited by - bonn1997 on 09-20-2008 6:09 PM]

Blessing in disguise meaning we may find a better deal than the Darko deal.
Cookdcokehop
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9/20/2008  6:50 PM
Posted by GKFv2:

C'mon man. Give the guy a break. Look at his username. He's obviously on some sort of drug. Coke maybe?

Pkease get off my dick. Thank You.
Pharzeone
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9/20/2008  9:40 PM
Posted by Cookdcokehop:
Posted by GKFv2:

C'mon man. Give the guy a break. Look at his username. He's obviously on some sort of drug. Coke maybe?

Pkease get off my dick. Thank You.

Oh ****, you can type dick without getting censored. Oh ****, I said it too.
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CrushAlot
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9/20/2008  11:51 PM
Walsh would be crazy to trade for K-Mart. He has had two micro fracture surgeries, has an albatross contract, has caused problems in the locker room, relied on athleticism when he was effective, needs to play with a pass first point guard to be effective, is dirty, lacks character is undersized and can't hit a jump shot. I wish Martin played against Oak, Mase, Malone, Barkley etc instead of the era where Mikki Moore became an effective player. How many 'stud' power forwards were matched in rebounding by the point guard on their team during their glory years?
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
TMS
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9/21/2008  8:57 AM
Posted by GKFv2:

C'mon man. Give the guy a break. Look at his username. He's obviously on some sort of drug. Coke maybe?

not for nothing dude cuz i don't have a real problem w/u, but u don't seem to take it well when peeps make these types of comments towards you on these forums... u should probably not be the one dishing them out then... just sayin.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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9/21/2008  9:00 AM
Posted by CrushAlot:

Walsh would be crazy to trade for K-Mart. He has had two micro fracture surgeries, has an albatross contract, has caused problems in the locker room, relied on athleticism when he was effective, needs to play with a pass first point guard to be effective, is dirty, lacks character is undersized and can't hit a jump shot. I wish Martin played against Oak, Mase, Malone, Barkley etc instead of the era where Mikki Moore became an effective player. How many 'stud' power forwards were matched in rebounding by the point guard on their team during their glory years?

i disagree... i don't see any possible upside in holding onto Zach... i think KMart could bring some passion & hustle & add an element that we don't really have on this team right now w/some frontcourt defense... the contracts are a complete wash so no cap benefits gained, but i think team chemistry could be better if u replaced Zach w/KMart personally... just my own personal opinion & that's how i've felt for the longest which is why i would probably make that trade just for that aspect alone.

[Edited by - TMS on 09-21-2008 06:01 AM]
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CrushAlot
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9/21/2008  10:40 AM
If K-Mart had the leadership abilities, character and jumpshot of Larry Johnson I might agree with you. However even with those qualities he is the first guy to ever play after two micro fracture surgeries and his game is based on athleticism.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
TMS
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9/21/2008  10:54 AM
here's where KMart fits better than Zach does IMO:

- he doesn't demand touches on the offensive side of the ball, which means u won't have him creating any problems for guys like Curry & Jamal who need to have a lot of touches on offense... this also allows kids like Chandler & Gallo to get theirs & grow into offensive threats
- he's more suited for an uptempo game even now w/his 2 reconstructed knees than Zach is
- he plays defense, something Zach never does
- he's actually been a major part of some very good winning teams in the past & knows the type of team play that it takes to get you to that level
- he's got that nasty attitude about him on the court (but not off the court in any negative way unlike Zach) that would add some nice flavor to this team & personally i think would be a nice addition to another passionate guy like Lil' Nate... we have way too many laid back type guys on this team, u need some players who can get the crowd excited & pumped up during games... they don't all necessarily have to be 18/10 type guys to do that... i think people sometimes get too caught up in the numbers & don't consider these other intangible factors... JYD is a case in point... he got the Knicks back into games based on his intensity, defense & hustle alone... Balkman did some of that in his time here but never really got the full run of minutes he needed to realize his potential IMO... i think KMart would be much more effective than Balk even tho he's lost some of the athleticism that made him a nasty player for the Nets

[Edited by - TMS on 09-21-2008 07:55 AM]
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
Cookdcokehop
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9/21/2008  11:05 AM
Linas Klieaza, Kenyon Martin and 2010 first rounder for Zach Randolph and David Lee...get er' done! Better than the Darko trade IMO
TMS
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9/21/2008  11:15 AM
Posted by Cookdcokehop:

Linas Klieaza, Kenyon Martin and 2010 first rounder for Zach Randolph and David Lee...get er' done! Better than the Darko trade IMO

no need to include D Lee in the deal... u don't wanna trade away both your PF's for KMart w/his health issues... Zach for KMart straight up should be plenty to get that deal done, we may even be able to get a pick out of the deal from DEN at that... only way i include a pick in that scenario is if DEN also takes Jared Fishlips off our hands as well.

Zach, Fishlips, Collins & a protected pick for KMart, Hunter, Atkins (waived expiring) & Weems

[Edited by - TMS on 09-21-2008 08:18 AM]
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Finestrg
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9/21/2008  11:58 AM
Posted by TMS:

here's where KMart fits better than Zach does IMO:

- he doesn't demand touches on the offensive side of the ball, which means u won't have him creating any problems for guys like Curry & Jamal who need to have a lot of touches on offense... this also allows kids like Chandler & Gallo to get theirs & grow into offensive threats
- he's more suited for an uptempo game even now w/his 2 reconstructed knees than Zach is
- he plays defense, something Zach never does
- he's actually been a major part of some very good winning teams in the past & knows the type of team play that it takes to get you to that level
- he's got that nasty attitude about him on the court (but not off the court in any negative way unlike Zach) that would add some nice flavor to this team & personally i think would be a nice addition to another passionate guy like Lil' Nate... we have way too many laid back type guys on this team, u need some players who can get the crowd excited & pumped up during games... they don't all necessarily have to be 18/10 type guys to do that... i think people sometimes get too caught up in the numbers & don't consider these other intangible factors... JYD is a case in point... he got the Knicks back into games based on his intensity, defense & hustle alone... Balkman did some of that in his time here but never really got the full run of minutes he needed to realize his potential IMO... i think KMart would be much more effective than Balk even tho he's lost some of the athleticism that made him a nasty player for the Nets

[Edited by - TMS on 09-21-2008 07:55 AM]

These are all very solid points. Good topic - I remember talking about this last year at the deadline when this thing almost went down - What concerns me though is I think Zach, provided he maintains a production level close to the numbers he's been putting up the last few years, will be easier to move toward the end as both of their contracts diminish. Nothing decent is gonna present itself now because Zach's contract as it stands today is truly abysmal, but at the end of his contract, provided he's still putting up respectable numbers, I could see some GM telling his owner, "We're a playoff team & we just lost our PF for the year. Zach Randolph's still close to 20/10 and we need some scoring, rebounding and a PF. Let's do it. If it doesn't work out, it's only one year. It's might be worth a shot." I could see that type of logic around the league as Zach's contracts comes to a close. KMart, meanwhile, who knows what kind of shape he'll be in phyically and skill-wise when his deal comes to a close in a few seasons. I suspect Zach, who's younger and puts up better numbers, might be the easier guy to move. That's the only thing that scares me. Otherwise, T, I agree with you 100%. KMart would be a much better fit for us in all areas. I would just want to turn the page on him toward the end if he didn't work out and that won't be easy at all. Might prove to be even harder than moving Zach in fact.

I do like Cook's idea though - I'd be more inclined to do that as long as Denver recognized that Zach's the better player and was interested in making a fair trade. For me to take on Martin at this point, with his diminished play and injury concerns, they'd have to sweeten the pot for me considerably. I'd have no problem giving them Lee too as long as I got Kleiza back in return. D'A would love this guy. He's a younger David Lee that runs the court, can bang a little inside and is a much better outside shooter than anyone ever thought. We make that deal we'd be a little thin inside, so I'd go out and grab Justin Williams for some interior defense. But this sounds intriguing...
joec32033
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9/21/2008  1:00 PM
Kmart would probably be able to play center in this philosophy. I remember he has a rep as being a soft rebounder for his size but I think you can have a lineup of Kmart-Lee-Chandler-Crawford-Duhon and be well rounded. Personally I don't think Curry fits here anymore.
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TMS
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9/21/2008  7:12 PM
Posted by Finestrg:
Posted by TMS:

here's where KMart fits better than Zach does IMO:

- he doesn't demand touches on the offensive side of the ball, which means u won't have him creating any problems for guys like Curry & Jamal who need to have a lot of touches on offense... this also allows kids like Chandler & Gallo to get theirs & grow into offensive threats
- he's more suited for an uptempo game even now w/his 2 reconstructed knees than Zach is
- he plays defense, something Zach never does
- he's actually been a major part of some very good winning teams in the past & knows the type of team play that it takes to get you to that level
- he's got that nasty attitude about him on the court (but not off the court in any negative way unlike Zach) that would add some nice flavor to this team & personally i think would be a nice addition to another passionate guy like Lil' Nate... we have way too many laid back type guys on this team, u need some players who can get the crowd excited & pumped up during games... they don't all necessarily have to be 18/10 type guys to do that... i think people sometimes get too caught up in the numbers & don't consider these other intangible factors... JYD is a case in point... he got the Knicks back into games based on his intensity, defense & hustle alone... Balkman did some of that in his time here but never really got the full run of minutes he needed to realize his potential IMO... i think KMart would be much more effective than Balk even tho he's lost some of the athleticism that made him a nasty player for the Nets

[Edited by - TMS on 09-21-2008 07:55 AM]

These are all very solid points. Good topic - I remember talking about this last year at the deadline when this thing almost went down - What concerns me though is I think Zach, provided he maintains a production level close to the numbers he's been putting up the last few years, will be easier to move toward the end as both of their contracts diminish. Nothing decent is gonna present itself now because Zach's contract as it stands today is truly abysmal, but at the end of his contract, provided he's still putting up respectable numbers, I could see some GM telling his owner, "We're a playoff team & we just lost our PF for the year. Zach Randolph's still close to 20/10 and we need some scoring, rebounding and a PF. Let's do it. If it doesn't work out, it's only one year. It's might be worth a shot." I could see that type of logic around the league as Zach's contracts comes to a close. KMart, meanwhile, who knows what kind of shape he'll be in phyically and skill-wise when his deal comes to a close in a few seasons. I suspect Zach, who's younger and puts up better numbers, might be the easier guy to move. That's the only thing that scares me. Otherwise, T, I agree with you 100%. KMart would be a much better fit for us in all areas. I would just want to turn the page on him toward the end if he didn't work out and that won't be easy at all. Might prove to be even harder than moving Zach in fact.

I do like Cook's idea though - I'd be more inclined to do that as long as Denver recognized that Zach's the better player and was interested in making a fair trade. For me to take on Martin at this point, with his diminished play and injury concerns, they'd have to sweeten the pot for me considerably. I'd have no problem giving them Lee too as long as I got Kleiza back in return. D'A would love this guy. He's a younger David Lee that runs the court, can bang a little inside and is a much better outside shooter than anyone ever thought. We make that deal we'd be a little thin inside, so I'd go out and grab Justin Williams for some interior defense. But this sounds intriguing...

i'm not sure how much trade value Zach will have until his contract becomes an expiring... not many teams out there will wanna take on his baggage & give up anything of value... we all see how teams are demanding at least a 1st round pick to do us that huge favor, i don't see much changing there for at least another 2 years... i do agree w/u that when his contract becomes an expiring tho, that chances are Zach will be a more tradeable commodity than KMart, but not by all that much... i think the damage that can be done to the team's chemistry & development by keeping Zach here in NY outweighs any concerns over how tradeable KMart will be in 2 years... i agree tho, that DEN would probably have to throw us another asset to make the deal a little more equitable, but if i had my choice i'd even agree to a straight up swap... i just do not wanna see Zach delaying the development of guys like D Lee, Gallo & Chandler & have Eddy Curry play the way he did last season... if u could unload Curry's contract on someone i'd be all for that idea too, but IMO he's more of a tradeable commodity than Zach is for various reasons so i'm willing to wait another year w/him & see how he plays.
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OasisBU
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9/22/2008  2:52 AM
Posted by kam77:
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by GKFv2:

I'm telling you right now this "not budging" crap that you are praising him for will come back to bite him in the ass. We are not getting under the cap if we don't trade him. If he causes trouble, gets into trouble, and/or does not fit the style and doesn't put up his usual numbers this season he will be even more un-tradeable than now. Walsh should have bitten the bullet and threw in a first rounder to the Clippers to take his entire contract. He failed. And if the Knicks do not have the cap space to sign a LeBron, Wade, or Bosh in the summer of 2010 this will be the primary reason why.

I disagree. giving up a first rounder to get rid of Zach would be insane. A rebuilding team shouldn't trade first rounders especially since we already owe one to Utah. If that's the only alternative I'd rather keep him.

[Edited by - Slimpack on 09-20-2008 04:07 AM]

Well that first rounder wouldn't be sent out til 2012 which by then we've presumably already rebuilt via FA.
WALSH could always seek to protect the pick to limit the risk.

[Edited by - kam77 on 09-20-2008 04:29 AM]

Isn't that exact line of thinking how we got into the position we are in now? I know it's a little more complicated, but the Knicks have been giving away picks for years and it has really hurt the franchise. I think Donnie did the right thing by not giving in.
"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
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9/22/2008  2:55 AM
Posted by azamatbagatov:

Then after he gets locked up for punching a stripper in the face and having an entourage member shoot a bouncer we'll never be able to trade him.....

Zach is gangsta
"If at first you don't succeed, then maybe you just SUCK." Kenny Powers
Alan Hahn: Memphis decides to pass on Zach

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