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Paladin55
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9/4/2008  6:25 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by EnySpree:

Knicks shouldn't have to pick up any salary in Zach's final year.

i don't care if they had to pay his entire salary to get rid of him as long as it comes off our cap.

If we pick up part of his salary in his final year, do they just get the money, or are there cap considerations (for us/them)?

Either way, why not try to get Memphis' #2 for the extra cash we will be giving them if we choose to pay Zach's deferred $$? Could be a pretty high #2, and for next year it would give us our #1 (unless we are a top 8 team, I think) and two #2s. It would at least give us a little more flexibility on draft day next year.

I thought this was a done deal when Memphis picked up the Iranian star and I read that Phoenix/D'Antoni had once tried to get Darko after Amare had been hurt. Jaric is no "answer" player, but he is not a stiff and he's a swing player who can hit 3s and has some passing ability. Milicic is the only shot blocker out there, and he is only 23, so if he were to develop, he might actually have a chance to stick around beyond his 2 yr contract.

Definitely worth a gamble IMO.
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sebstar
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9/4/2008  6:32 PM
Also keep in mind that Jaric's deal would be infinitely more movable than Zach's in 09-10.

On the fence with this one. Its definitely a mixed bag. Dispels the notion that there isnt a market for him. Should just put him out on the floor and jack up his value.
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TMS
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9/4/2008  6:48 PM
Posted by Paladin55:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by EnySpree:

Knicks shouldn't have to pick up any salary in Zach's final year.

i don't care if they had to pay his entire salary to get rid of him as long as it comes off our cap.

If we pick up part of his salary in his final year, do they just get the money, or are there cap considerations (for us/them)?

Either way, why not try to get Memphis' #2 for the extra cash we will be giving them if we choose to pay Zach's deferred $$? Could be a pretty high #2, and for next year it would give us our #1 (unless we are a top 8 team, I think) and two #2s. It would at least give us a little more flexibility on draft day next year.

I thought this was a done deal when Memphis picked up the Iranian star and I read that Phoenix/D'Antoni had once tried to get Darko after Amare had been hurt. Jaric is no "answer" player, but he is not a stiff and he's a swing player who can hit 3s and has some passing ability. Milicic is the only shot blocker out there, and he is only 23, so if he were to develop, he might actually have a chance to stick around beyond his 2 yr contract.

Definitely worth a gamble IMO.

i have never heard of a basketball trade working in this matter the way it does in baseball where a team can simply pay a team to take on a contract of a player... if it were possible i don't see why it hasn't been done already... money is not the issue for us, it's the cap considerations.
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Cookdcokehop
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9/4/2008  6:50 PM
Fuck the Grizzlies if we have to pick up a penny off Zach's contract.
Pharzeone
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9/4/2008  7:14 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Paladin55:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by EnySpree:

Knicks shouldn't have to pick up any salary in Zach's final year.

i don't care if they had to pay his entire salary to get rid of him as long as it comes off our cap.

If we pick up part of his salary in his final year, do they just get the money, or are there cap considerations (for us/them)?

Either way, why not try to get Memphis' #2 for the extra cash we will be giving them if we choose to pay Zach's deferred $$? Could be a pretty high #2, and for next year it would give us our #1 (unless we are a top 8 team, I think) and two #2s. It would at least give us a little more flexibility on draft day next year.

I thought this was a done deal when Memphis picked up the Iranian star and I read that Phoenix/D'Antoni had once tried to get Darko after Amare had been hurt. Jaric is no "answer" player, but he is not a stiff and he's a swing player who can hit 3s and has some passing ability. Milicic is the only shot blocker out there, and he is only 23, so if he were to develop, he might actually have a chance to stick around beyond his 2 yr contract.

Definitely worth a gamble IMO.

i have never heard of a basketball trade working in this matter the way it does in baseball where a team can simply pay a team to take on a contract of a player... if it were possible i don't see why it hasn't been done already... money is not the issue for us, it's the cap considerations.

Isn't that what Taylor wanted the Knicks to do when they were discussing the Marbury trade two seasons ago? I think it is possible essentially Taylor wanted the Knicks to give them money to pay Marbury as I remember correctly. Marbury would be on the T-Wolves books but Dolan would give Taylor the money for Marbury. I think that was the T-Wolves plan.
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Bonn1997
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9/4/2008  7:35 PM
Posted by Cookdcokehop:

Fuck the Grizzlies if we have to pick up a penny off Zach's contract.

It's more like, God bless the Grizzlies if they're willing to spend a penny to take Zach.
TMS
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9/4/2008  8:10 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Paladin55:
Posted by TMS:
Posted by EnySpree:

Knicks shouldn't have to pick up any salary in Zach's final year.

i don't care if they had to pay his entire salary to get rid of him as long as it comes off our cap.

If we pick up part of his salary in his final year, do they just get the money, or are there cap considerations (for us/them)?

Either way, why not try to get Memphis' #2 for the extra cash we will be giving them if we choose to pay Zach's deferred $$? Could be a pretty high #2, and for next year it would give us our #1 (unless we are a top 8 team, I think) and two #2s. It would at least give us a little more flexibility on draft day next year.

I thought this was a done deal when Memphis picked up the Iranian star and I read that Phoenix/D'Antoni had once tried to get Darko after Amare had been hurt. Jaric is no "answer" player, but he is not a stiff and he's a swing player who can hit 3s and has some passing ability. Milicic is the only shot blocker out there, and he is only 23, so if he were to develop, he might actually have a chance to stick around beyond his 2 yr contract.

Definitely worth a gamble IMO.

i have never heard of a basketball trade working in this matter the way it does in baseball where a team can simply pay a team to take on a contract of a player... if it were possible i don't see why it hasn't been done already... money is not the issue for us, it's the cap considerations.

Isn't that what Taylor wanted the Knicks to do when they were discussing the Marbury trade two seasons ago? I think it is possible essentially Taylor wanted the Knicks to give them money to pay Marbury as I remember correctly. Marbury would be on the T-Wolves books but Dolan would give Taylor the money for Marbury. I think that was the T-Wolves plan.

in the NBA the only way a team can take on a contract w/o giving 1 of equal annual value back is if they're under the cap by an amount that will allow for them to absorb that contract difference under the cap rules... & even then, the maximum amount of cash that is allowed to be exchanged to facilitate a trade is $3 million dollars, as far as i'm aware... that rule is in place so that large market teams like the Knicks can't simply purchase the contracts of big contract players, which would put them at an operating advantage over smaller market teams like the Grizzlies for example.

i've never heard of a team simply absorbing a max level contract of a player like Marbs & just asking for the cash to pay his salary in return... those types of deals are made in baseball where there is no salary cap... the only deals of this nature i've seen are smaller contracted players making midlevel dollars or less.
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Finestrg
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9/4/2008  8:11 PM
Posted by Cookdcokehop:

Fuck the Grizzlies if we have to pick up a penny off Zach's contract.

This sounds like the ball's in Dolan's court on this right now--and he's probably pissed off that he has to pay any extra money after the trade. Don't really blame him if that's the case---the Grizz really got some balls here, huh?

If Dolan eventually gives the go-ahead, you make the deal. There are combinations that work better for us with Memphis (Walker instead of Jaric, get a PG like Crittenton, etc...) but if that doesn't happen, hey, you rid yourself of Zach and the awful contract, you grab Darko, who I think has the best chance of realizing his potential under D'Antoni out of any coach out there, and you move forward. I still say Darko, with 30+ mins. a night, could very easily be another Sammy Dalenbert/Andris Biedrins with not a lot of improvement. The thing is he does have better offensive potential than both of these guys and playing for D'Antoni in his offensive-oriented system, he might finally tap into that potential. We could eventually be looking at a very nice young player capable of putting up some very big numbers on both end of the floor here w/o any of the chemistry issues we saw last year (I think he could work well with Curry).

I'd still look to grab this kid Justin Williams for extra length, interior defense and rebounding. Wouldn't cost much to get this kid - we're talking the league minimum here in exchange for a young big that's hungry to show people he can play and that he belongs. Can't hurt, can only help.

[Edited by - finestrg on 09-04-2008 8:13 PM]
Paladin55
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9/4/2008  8:34 PM
Does anyone know what the Knicks would actually have to pay out to the Grizzlies if they pick up the "deferred" part of Randolph's contract in that final year??
No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
VDesai
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9/4/2008  10:43 PM
I agree- I don't understand how the Knicks can pick up so much of his salary. I guess the money would still count against the Grizz' cap....
EnySpree
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9/4/2008  11:37 PM
Its bull****.....I don't even think NBA teams are even allowed to pick up any portion of a contract that's traded....

I want Zach traded too, but if the Grizz want to be stupid, to hell with them! Knicks just roll with what they have. Fuck it. Either the Grizz want Zach or they don't. Knicks can find other ways to cut cap or improve the team.

Technically, they don't need Zach cuz they have Warrick. He was damn good down the stretch for them. He could be their starting 4.
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SupremeCommander
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9/4/2008  11:55 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by EnySpree:

Knicks shouldn't have to pick up any salary in Zach's final year.

i don't care if they had to pay his entire salary to get rid of him as long as it comes off our cap.

I'm with you... as long as it cost $7.50 for a tiny ass beer with a pretzel rod stuck in the handle, I could give to ****s about Dolan's money. The cap is really the only number that matters.
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crzymdups
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9/5/2008  9:24 AM
send the Grizzlies $3 million in the trade. if they invest that now, it can grow into a fund that they can pay the defered payments out of.
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Andrew
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9/5/2008  9:39 AM
Eny...just to clarify, its not the final year of salary that the Gizz are asking for. Its the deferred payments. I think Portland (and Zach) had some of the front part of his contract deferred to after the 6th year. When he was traded the Knicks apparently agreed to pick that money up. Thats what they are talking about here.
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crzymdups
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9/5/2008  9:40 AM
Posted by Andrew:

Eny...just to clarify, its not the final year of salary that the Gizz are asking for. Its the deferred payments. I think Portland (and Zach) had some of the front part of his contract deferred to after the 6th year. When he was traded the Knicks apparently agreed to pick that money up. Thats what they are talking about here.


has anyone been able to find out if that counts against our cap or not if we pay the defered payments?
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djsunyc
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9/5/2008  9:50 AM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by Andrew:

Eny...just to clarify, its not the final year of salary that the Gizz are asking for. Its the deferred payments. I think Portland (and Zach) had some of the front part of his contract deferred to after the 6th year. When he was traded the Knicks apparently agreed to pick that money up. Thats what they are talking about here.


has anyone been able to find out if that counts against our cap or not if we pay the defered payments?

what you see in hoopshype as his contract is what counts towards the cap. the deferred payments are not counted.
BRIGGS
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9/5/2008  10:00 AM
A key to even sniffing FA in 2010 is getting rid of Zach. If there was a better deal on the table we wouldnt be talking about Marko Jaric and Darko + picking up Randolphs deferred payments. Perhaps they can grab a 2009 2nd rounder as well but the bottom line is do the deal--free agency will mean a lot more to Knick fans than having Zach back here next year. You just drafted a 4 with pick 6 and still have Lee. Randolph and Curry does not work. I think in the best interest of the team--do the deal. This is addition by subtraction and a time to move on--we made a blunder acquiring Zach and Mr Dolan will ahve to finish off the crp that he allowed IT to move in. At this point we need a fresh start.
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LivingLegend
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9/5/2008  1:22 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:

A key to even sniffing FA in 2010 is getting rid of Zach. If there was a better deal on the table we wouldnt be talking about Marko Jaric and Darko + picking up Randolphs deferred payments. Perhaps they can grab a 2009 2nd rounder as well but the bottom line is do the deal--free agency will mean a lot more to Knick fans than having Zach back here next year. You just drafted a 4 with pick 6 and still have Lee. Randolph and Curry does not work. I think in the best interest of the team--do the deal. This is addition by subtraction and a time to move on--we made a blunder acquiring Zach and Mr Dolan will ahve to finish off the crp that he allowed IT to move in. At this point we need a fresh start.

Agreed - I mean Donnie and Mike know what they want in terms of roster heading into the season and the elimination of potential chemistry problems that might corrupt the entire season or progress towards long term improvement.

If Zach is the guy they feel they need to move for monetary and chemistry issues - who am I to say I know better.

That said - their is some tangible value in both Darko and Marko in my mind. Both provide things we lack with Darko solidfying our interior on D and Marko adding size, defense and ball handling to our backcourt.

The fact that doing this deal would also signal the end for Marbury would kill two birds with one stone.

The Knicks totally remake the chemistry on the team - they allow Eddy to roam free by himself, they allow Lee to start, they open up time for Chandler and Gallo and they remove Steph from overall equation. Now you rely on 2 primary scorers Eddy and Craw rather than 4 and receive variable contributions from the rest of the roster depending on the night and productivity.

You also give Gallo 2 other Euro's to make his transition a bit easier - at least I'd think that might help.

Darko, Gallo and Marko would all represent a step towards Mike D's ball moving, ball sharing type offensive scheme - while Zach and Steph represent the opposite. Chemistry, chemistry, chemistry -- not to mention improved Cap room and flexibility.
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9/5/2008  1:26 PM
Is Darko more naturally a 4 or a 5?
LivingLegend
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9/5/2008  1:33 PM
Posted by Andrew:

Eny...just to clarify, its not the final year of salary that the Gizz are asking for. Its the deferred payments. I think Portland (and Zach) had some of the front part of his contract deferred to after the 6th year. When he was traded the Knicks apparently agreed to pick that money up. Thats what they are talking about here.


30% or around $24M of Zach's deal was deferred in terms of when the team has to actually pay him out. The full value of the contract still hits the cap over the next 3 years (regardless of timing of payment) with year 3 = the $17M figure.

The Grizz are apparently asking the Knicks to pick up at least a portion of that big deferred amount but I'm not sure that is legal given the NBA restrictions. In MLB you a team can move a high priced player that nobody wants if they agree to pay most of his owed salary but the NBA restricts teams and I believe the most that can be moved in any cash transaction is $3M. So not sure if the rumor about the deferred payments are holding up the deal or if its simply a rumor.

Best news I've seen was regarding Alan Hahn's comment that his reliable source clammed up today when asked and indicated that the Knicks want Ewings Hall ceremony to go off without any distractions. In my mind - that sounds like a deal is already done. If the Knicks are holding off to stay away from messing with Ewings day - I have to say that is another indication of Donnie Walsh's class and only speaks well of our long term prospects under this overall team leadership.
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