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Cavs interested in one of our big men?
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nyk4ever
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8/17/2008  4:53 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by crzymdups:

please send ZBo to the Cavs. it's the only way i will have any interest in this season.

Ill work with Cleveland if I can get Hickson and a pick i.e Randolph Lee for Hickson Wallace Clev 2009#1

I like Hickson too Briggs but why would they give him up in a deal for Zach?
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Finestrg
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8/17/2008  5:00 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Finestrg:
Posted by EnySpree:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by EnySpree:

That boobie is too expensive. Roberson hasn't proved anything on a big stage, but he also whas never given that opportunity. Same player mind you.

Zach, Big Z, Mo williams and Craw is awesome enough......but add Lebron james to that mix holy molly.

I would be annoyed a little if the Knicks did a pure salary dump like this......but as long as the Knicks do well to cut cap and fill in youth I'm down with it......

BTW, who starts at the 2 guard if Craw is traded away? Q? Not a good look.

I just wanna see a plan. Maybe a deal with Clevland gives the Knicks an open spot to sign and trade for Ben Gordon?

A more logical idea would be for Clevland to go for Ben Gordon. They have expirings, like the Knicks but they have a first rounder to throw away unlike the Knicks.

Eny, we aren't going to win anytime soon, so worrying about who will start if we trade Jamal is worthless.

Yeah but the Knicks would have no shooting guards if Craw is traded......eventually a real shooting guard will have to be picked up.

Agree Eny, but maybe that's where a JR Smith signing or trade comes in with Denver.

Say we did it like this (rumors suggest these scenarios might be available):

(1) We cut one of these deals with the Cavs. I'd prefer to deal Zach over Curry (I would think they'd want Zach over Curry anyway; he's the better player, a better fit for them - the stat-stuffer they're looking for to take pressure of LeBron, they're weak at the 4 now w/o Gooden anyway - Big Ben's shot, Varejao's not a starter (more of a role player big off the bench) and JJ Hickson's not ready, plus Big Z's still under contract and still an imposing presence that can stick an 18 footer, rebound and block a shot. I'd like to keep Curry available for another deal (Either Denver or Memphis). And I'd like to get Gibson back in any deal - I think he'll be better than Roberson. He's younger, he's a tremendous little shooter that's shot over 42% from 3 two years in a row now playing big minutes last yr. (over 30 mins. a game) before he got hurt. Let me see Roberson do that. And just like a guy like Jerryd Bayless (who a lot of people doubt has any PG abilities), I think Gibson will show enough ability to at least bring the ball up an initiate offensive sets. He did that fairly well for Texas. Guys like Bayless and Gibson have much more athletic ability and potential to do more things out there for you than strickly spot-up shooters like Steve Kerr or John Paxson for example imo. Plus Daniel Gibson's only 22 yrs, old, an excellent building block that will never make more than 4.8 mil. a season for the next 5 years. I actually think his contract is quite manageable to be honest. You can add a guy like Daniel Gibson and still continue to reduce overall payroll while keeping your eye on upcoming free agency.

(2) We explore any opportunity to pry JR Smith away from the Nuggets in a S&T. And I'd do this at the same time that I was working the Cav thing, this way neither Denver or the Cavs gets any leverage on us. Use David Lee to get this done. Or maybe we can make this into a big three-way deal with us Cleveland and Denver. Somewhere in the vicinity of 2 ys. 15 mil for Smith. That might get it done. Like I've said before, I could see JR going for this - it'd be an opportunity to come home to the tri-state area (he's from Jersey) & play in front of his family and friends for Mike D'Antoni (a coach ever single player in the league wants to play for) at the Mecca of basketball. That's not the long-term deal this kid's undoubtedly looking for but 2 years at 15 mil. is a real nice payday for him. JR Smith's only 23 yrs. old.

(3) Explore this Memphis rumor for Darko and Crittenton or Lowry. Try and use a Curry/Nate or Mardy package to get this done. Speculation is that Memphis might have inquired about Zach Randolph at some point, although Curry might be a better fit for them. Curry, with PT and a defined role, will produce somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 ppg/7 rebounds at the center spot - he proved that here 2 season's ago. They got lucky acquiring Darell Authur - that kid's their answer at the 4 eventually, while Gasol's brother's a nice big body and capable backup at both big spots. Has the least chance of happening imo so if nothing materializes, so be it, but Memphis might go for this. Curry's contract is better than Zach's and Memphis is a small market.

(4) We sign Justin Williams with the LLE cutting as long as the Roberson signing doesn't interfere. Justin Williams is Sean Williams-lite, might even be just as good. We all agree we need a shot-blocker (including D'Antoni), well here he is. The guy was a force at the collegiate level averaging a double/double points & rebounds along with a whopping 4.5 blocks a game for Wyoming. Good athlete with a huge wing span. This guy would give us the interior defense we've been lacking at the right price and more than make up for David Lee's departure.

---------------

5 - Darko/Justin Williams/Wallace/Jerome James
4 - Gallinari/Williams/Wallace/Jeffries/Malik
3 - Chandler/Q-Rich
2 - JR Smith/Gibson/Q-Rich
1 - Crittenton or Lowry/Duhon/Gibson/Collins

Now I know this is a huge shake-up and some of these players would be thrown right in the fire and expected to produce. And I'd be naive to expect all of this to go down just like this but anything close to this wouldn't be bad. The roster would still need some work but that's a nice young core with a good future with a much more manageable payroll.

[Edited by - finestrg on 08-17-2008 4:43 PM]

That team would win 15 games.

That team would have a very nice nucleus for the future and a payroll much more in line with what they want and need, ridding ourselves of Zach, Curry and Crawford. Good building blocks with potential at every position. And with Marbury (who I forgot to include on my depth chart - you keep him for the season & just let him expire), Malik and Wallace set to come off either this year or next, and decisions to be made on others like JR Smith, Darko and Duhon around the same time (opportunity to shed even more salary if those guys don't work out) hopefully we'll be in position to obtain that one FA superstar that could really make us a player in the East once again.

In the meantime, I'd tune in every night to see a young team with vast potential like this play - 15 wins or not. The win total wouldn't matter, not as long as I knew the team was actually re-tooling with youth, building something here and moving in the right direction.

Basically I want my cake and I want to eat it too. I want us to remain proactive and re-tool wisely/smartly now while keeping an eye on free agency a couple of yrs. from now. We all heard Walsh say that too - easier said than done I suppose. I wanna see how they do it. Duhon and Roberson's a small start I guess but not nearly enough.


[Edited by - finestrg on 08-17-2008 5:20 PM]
BRIGGS
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8/17/2008  5:20 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by crzymdups:

please send ZBo to the Cavs. it's the only way i will have any interest in this season.

Ill work with Cleveland if I can get Hickson and a pick i.e Randolph Lee for Hickson Wallace Clev 2009#1

I like Hickson too Briggs but why would they give him up in a deal for Zach?

If Im giving up Zach and Lee and I have to get a dog back + a pick. Cleveland would be subtsantially better with Zach and Lee--they are a now team. What I get back is cap space a very nice prospect and a pick next year. We can have some finesse players but you need some pit bulls to win in the NBA as well.
That would give Cleveland a frontline of Big Z Lee Verajo Randolph and that is pretty darn good with lebron on your team.

Then we can set up with something like this 9-10 man--Im guessing Marbury are out

C-Curry Hickson
F Gallinari Hickson Jefferies
F Chandler Q Jefferies
G Crawford Nate Q
G Duhon Crawford Nate[Mardy or Roberson

We would have to find a 6-11=7-2 guy as a back up C and then in the next draft hopefully get a nice one.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 08-17-2008 5:23 PM]
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McK1
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8/17/2008  5:35 PM
its probably curry. I remember lebron wanting the cavs to talk to him when he was a fa but they chose to re-sign zydrunas
the stop underrating David Lee movement 1. FIRE MIKE 2. HIRE MULLIN 3. PAY AVERY 4. FREE NATE!!!
BRIGGS
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8/17/2008  5:38 PM
Posted by McK1:

its probably curry. I remember lebron wanting the cavs to talk to him when he was a fa but they chose to re-sign zydrunas

but they already have big z
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nyk4ever
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8/17/2008  5:40 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:


If Im giving up Zach and Lee and I have to get a dog back + a pick. Cleveland would be subtsantially better with Zach and Lee--they are a now team. What I get back is cap space a very nice prospect and a pick next year. We can have some finesse players but you need some pit bulls to win in the NBA as well.
That would give Cleveland a frontline of Big Z Lee Verajo Randolph and that is pretty darn good with lebron on your team.

Then we can set up with something like this 9-10 man--Im guessing Marbury are out

C-Curry Hickson
F Gallinari Hickson Jefferies
F Chandler Q Jefferies
G Crawford Nate Q
G Duhon Crawford Nate[Mardy or Roberson

We would have to find a 6-11=7-2 guy as a back up C and then in the next draft hopefully get a nice one.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 08-17-2008 5:23 PM]

Ah sorry Briggs, I didn't realize you were also giving up Lee. In that case, yeah I agree with you Hickson and a 2009 1st rounder is absolutely important.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
Finestrg
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8/17/2008  5:48 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by crzymdups:

please send ZBo to the Cavs. it's the only way i will have any interest in this season.

Ill work with Cleveland if I can get Hickson and a pick i.e Randolph Lee for Hickson Wallace Clev 2009#1

I like Hickson too Briggs but why would they give him up in a deal for Zach?

If Im giving up Zach and Lee and I have to get a dog back + a pick. Cleveland would be subtsantially better with Zach and Lee--they are a now team. What I get back is cap space a very nice prospect and a pick next year. We can have some finesse players but you need some pit bulls to win in the NBA as well.
That would give Cleveland a frontline of Big Z Lee Verajo Randolph and that is pretty darn good with lebron on your team.

Then we can set up with something like this 9-10 man--Im guessing Marbury are out

C-Curry Hickson
F Gallinari Hickson Jefferies
F Chandler Q Jefferies
G Crawford Nate Q
G Duhon Crawford Nate[Mardy or Roberson

We would have to find a 6-11=7-2 guy as a back up C and then in the next draft hopefully get a nice one.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 08-17-2008 5:23 PM]

Well I'm trying to divide up my assets and save them all for seperate deals (Zach/Crawford to the Cavs, Lee to Denver, Curry possibly to Memphis). Never mentioned Zach and Lee going to the Cavs in the same deal. But your overall point is valid. We would need some toughness on this team - although, as currently contituted, I'd hardly call our group of Lee, Zach or Curry "dogs." They're talented but hardly Detroit bad boy types. Justin Williams is a signing that could supply some toughness and interior defense though and Big Ben, though past his prime, would supply some more.

And if you're referring to Hasheem Thabeet as the big center in the next draft I agree - I could be down with that. He could be a monster. Think he's gonna be a monster. Remember though, if we target this kid Thabeet in the draft then that's yet another draft gone by without getting any backcourt help. Suddenly makes moves for guys like Gibson, JR Smith and/or Crittenton/Lowry seem a little more important to pull off now, no?
franco12
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8/17/2008  6:18 PM
instead of asking for the cavs 2009 pick, I think we should ask for either a 2010 or 2011.

Or possibly two.

But imagine if we got a 2011 pick with little restrictions and LeBron heads out of Cleveland - we could be looking at a very nice pick.

I don't think we're going to deal Crawford- and certainly if you ship Zach out, you don't need to move him - in fact, like Briggs said, we might end up with a 15 win team.
Paladin55
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8/17/2008  6:20 PM
Wallace is truly a shell of what he once was, and is an offensive liability. With his foul shooting you could not have him playing in the 4th quarter. He turns 34 in less than a month, and his decline will continue this year, especially if he finds himself on a rebuilding team.

When does his contract expire?

You are basically sending Zach to the Cavs for a #20 or later 1st, and a 2nd. How would Walsh/D'Antoni feel about this?

I would prefer that Memphis trade for Darko and Jaric that was floating around, if it really is legit.
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EnySpree
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8/17/2008  6:32 PM
Geez guys......we can't have everything, lol.

The Ben and picks for Zach makes the most sense in all seriousness.

Big Ben and David Lee would mke for a nice 1,2 punch @ the 4 spot....even @ center with david lee @ the 4. Deal kinda needs to go down.
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BRIGGS
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8/17/2008  6:46 PM
Posted by Paladin55:

Wallace is truly a shell of what he once was, and is an offensive liability. With his foul shooting you could not have him playing in the 4th quarter. He turns 34 in less than a month, and his decline will continue this year, especially if he finds himself on a rebuilding team.

When does his contract expire?

You are basically sending Zach to the Cavs for a #20 or later 1st, and a 2nd. How would Walsh/D'Antoni feel about this?

I would prefer that Memphis trade for Darko and Jaric that was floating around, if it really is legit.



No I would be sending them for JJ HICKSON a first rounder and wallace. Hickson will be WAY better than Darko. It hits what I want a pick a prospcet that I like and cap space in 2010. Darko SCKS --he is way to stiff and there is a reason why teams want to jetison him. Jaric is nothing. You have to be kidding me---what choice would you take Hickson Wallace and a Clev number 1 pick or Darko and Jaric? You want a pile of crp back?
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djsunyc
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8/17/2008  6:51 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by djsunyc:

any help the knicks give the cavs now will probably lower any chances for lebron in 2010. but i get the feeling that lebron isn't the prime target that summer.

I agree DJ.

Who do you think is? Wade?

my guess would be amare...
BRIGGS
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8/17/2008  7:09 PM
I cant believe guys are talking about Darko and Jaric. Oh my Ill keep randolph in 5 seconds.
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djsunyc
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8/17/2008  7:22 PM
i don't think the knicks will make a pure dump deal anymore. i think any deal they make, will require talent to come back. walsh said so as much in the townhall.

if zach could've been traded for some talent, it would've happened already.

it's quite possible zach and eddy are both back at the start of the season but it's also possible d'antoni brings one off the bench and rarely puts them out there together.
Finestrg
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8/17/2008  7:49 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by Paladin55:

Wallace is truly a shell of what he once was, and is an offensive liability. With his foul shooting you could not have him playing in the 4th quarter. He turns 34 in less than a month, and his decline will continue this year, especially if he finds himself on a rebuilding team.

When does his contract expire?

You are basically sending Zach to the Cavs for a #20 or later 1st, and a 2nd. How would Walsh/D'Antoni feel about this?

I would prefer that Memphis trade for Darko and Jaric that was floating around, if it really is legit.



No I would be sending them for JJ HICKSON a first rounder and wallace. Hickson will be WAY better than Darko. It hits what I want a pick a prospcet that I like and cap space in 2010. Darko SCKS --he is way to stiff and there is a reason why teams want to jetison him. Jaric is nothing. You have to be kidding me---what choice would you take Hickson Wallace and a Clev number 1 pick or Darko and Jaric? You want a pile of crp back?

Hickson's a nice prospect, although I'd rather get Gibson back myself. He's young though pretty established in the league already and has done some pretty remarkable things for a young player (referring specifically to his long-range accuracy). I seriously question whether or not Roberson can provide this. The Roberson pick up was a nice low risk move, but after watching every summer league game, I not sure he'll really amount to much to be honest. Gibson's got a much brighter future imo. And he's 3 yrs. younger than this guy Roberson.

Wallace has only this yr. and next on his contract at about 14 per if I'm not mistaken which is fine - because he clears cap space in two seasons which is our goal - one yr. less on his deal than Zach.

Darko's got a bad rap and it's pretty understandable - at this stage he hasn't really done too much. But to me, you throw out the first 2 yrs. in Detroit because he never played. In Orlando and Memphis he played a little more and showed promise but definitely not nearly enough to warrant being taken 2nd overall a few yrs. ago. But he's got ability to help a club - I made the comparison to Andris Biedrins and Sammy Dalembert (two bigs that aren't especially talented on the offensive end) the other day and I honestly believe he's got enough ability to match their production - if ever given 30 mins., he'll give you 10 rebounds, 10-14 pts. and over 2 blocks a game without even getting that much better, with the possibility of even more offense provide he was ever developed into a steady option for a club. 7'1", with good footwork around the basket, good hook moves in close, with a nice looking jumper with legit range out to about 18'. And I really question the "stiff legs" evaluation - to me, for a guy that's 7'1", he's shown the ability to put the ball on the deck and take it all the way to the rim for lefty dunks with authority and on the other side of the ball, he's shown he can not only be an effective weak side shot-blocker but also a noticibly effective man to man defender, able to recover nicely to swat shots after a defender appears to have beaten him off the dribble. And he doesn't look like a guy that takes any **** out there also - I've seen clips of him getting into it with players all the time, Dikembe Mutombo in particular. Another nice quality. All in all that's a rare combination of skills for a guy that big. No doubt he's got stuff to work on (his FG and FT %s have to improve, so does his offensive rebounding - offensive rebounds lead to easy buckets and a better FG% and that's all effort) but I think he's got a lot to offer.

And you're right, Jaric is nothing. Forget that guy. Never interested in him. If we ever dealt Memphis Curry, Zach or Lee I'd have to get Javaris Crittenton or Kyle Lowry back in return. That's a must or the deal's off.


[Edited by - finestrg on 08-17-2008 8:03 PM]
djsunyc
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8/17/2008  7:59 PM
alot of teams have this hard on for the summer of 2010. and ALOT of teams already have mega cap room that summer already. the question becomes, which teams will be buyers between now and then? which teams don't care about the summer of 2010 that much or have so much room under the cap that they can absorb a contract (while still sending back something of value) and still be players that year? knicks may have to wait till next summer to see if any team is looking to go on a run in 2009.

again, if the knicks don't extend anyone, and all players pick up their options, they will have the following under contract during the summer of 2010:

zach: 17.33
eddy: 11.28
jamal: 10.08
jeffries: 6.88
danillo: 3.36
(lee, nate, chandler, mardy, 2009 #1 pick not included)

for a total of : $48.93. if the cap # reaches $60 mil, they will have $11 mil to play with.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 08-17-2008 8:02 PM]
Paladin55
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8/17/2008  8:40 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:


No I would be sending them for JJ HICKSON a first rounder and wallace. Hickson will be WAY better than Darko. It hits what I want a pick a prospcet that I like and cap space in 2010. Darko SCKS --he is way to stiff and there is a reason why teams want to jetison him. Jaric is nothing. You have to be kidding me---what choice would you take Hickson Wallace and a Clev number 1 pick or Darko and Jaric? You want a pile of crp back?

I would love Hickson- but Cleveland would not take Zach for him one on one, let alone for Hickson + Wallace, + a #1. Yeah, Hickson is going to be way better than Darko, but Cleveland knows that too- they are not fools. (I would take Hickson over Gibson- who is just a small streak shooting SG.) You are not going to get great players for Zach, especially a good young prospect. I'll repeat what you said- "There is a reason why teams want to jettison him. If you want to rid yourself of Zach you have to realize that his value is limited, and your main reason for trading him is that you think your team will be better off without him, cap-wise and on the floor. If I could get a top 10 pick, and a contract dump for Zach, I would do it, but what teams can/will do this?

Darko's contract expires in 2 yrs. Memphis must also be trying to rid themselves of Jaric, which is why his name would come up- right? If Darko sucks- dump him after the second year- if he is OK, sign him for what his value is worth. Jaric is serviceable at guard. I would also try to get a draft pick (2010?)out of Memphis, but if you only do the Darko/Jaric trade for Zach, you rid yourself of a player and contract you don't want, and get one guy who you hope to develop, and another guy who you can get rid of after his contract expires.

I don't usually propose trades, just react to legitimately possible ones, and actually, the Memphis trade rumor has been discussed before in this forum.
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8/17/2008  9:10 PM
--->I don't usually propose trades, just react to legitimately possible ones, and actually, the Memphis trade rumor has been discussed before in this forum


Im sorry I guessed you missed the actual title of the thread. It had to do with a *Cleveland* writer on the Cavs trying to acquire a big from the Knicks.
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franco12
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8/17/2008  9:41 PM
Walsh has said he wants to get value for Zach- but I think he knows we basically gave up squat to get him & if 2010 is such a big deal, if he can get squat back (Wallace & a conditional #1 in 2010/11), I think he will take the deal.
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8/17/2008  10:35 PM
crawford and z-bo for wallace and snow makes so much sense. the cavs need to entice lebron somehow to stay other than the "this is home" shpeil they've been giving for his entire career with a sub-par supporting cast. delonte green and then mo williams are both steps in the right direction, and gibson was their 3rd best player (no way they give him up in the deal unless ferry is clueless), wallace and snow are both clearly over the hill. crawford and z-bo are both tremendous talents that didnt' work on the knicks b/c there was such a vacuum of leadership and just the entire pathetic nature of the isiah regime. z-bo's a 20-10 guy, and crawford fills the void left by larry hughes.

i think its worthy of a first rounder in return, and we shed 2 of the 4 biggest contracts (once marbury is bought out or gone) on the team. great deal for everybody.
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