Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by jaydh:

It would be very rare for a starter with a 1.17WHIP to have an ERA that high.

santana vs. the AL

4 games
1-3
4.05 ERA
1.38 WHIP

and mussina who has a 3.44 ERA this year would be horrible in the NL because this year during interleague he had a 4+ERA.

how did mussina get involved here...are you trying to compare moose to santana? is that what's become of johan? come on jaydh, concentrate on the mets and hope they make the playoffs (which they should). your attempt at trash talking is funny tho, i'll give you credit...

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by franco12:

As a met fan, I think its safe to say the Yankees were smart to pass on Santana.

mets should've trade fmart + neice and whoever else to try and win right now. they have a strong shot to get out of the NL...making one more big trade could've put them over the hump to get to the series.

I would have traded them for manny or bay, but i also don't think there is a need for the mets to go all in right now.

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by franco12:

As a met fan, I think its safe to say the Yankees were smart to pass on Santana.

mets should've trade fmart + neice and whoever else to try and win right now. they have a strong shot to get out of the NL...making one more big trade could've put them over the hump to get to the series.

I would have traded them for manny or bay, but i also don't think there is a need for the mets to go all in right now.

delgado is on fire.
pedro is done next year.
oliver could walk.
you just got santana.
wagner is still a strong closer.
reyes is having a great year.
pelfrey is pitching well.
all signs point to going all in at this point.
try to win the world series.

even the yanks, who are not giving up the farm, still made some in-season deals.

if the mets got nady + marte, i think that puts them over the hump in the NL.

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by djsunyc:

i guess these 2nd half of 07 stats mean nothing either:

15 games, 5-7, 4.04 ERA...now we're talking 19 games of 4 ERA in AL. again, johan in the AL is not the same johan in the NL. i'm not dissing him, you guys made a smart trade. but i was SMART for the yanks not to trade for him.

what do last yrs stats have to do with anything? mussina had a near 6ERA the 2nd half...meaningless stat when looking at this year... right?

before you go and sign a pitcher to 6 years $120+ mil and trade some of your young players away, you see if he is worth the investment for the entire length of the contract.

2nd half of last year was an indication that possibly santana was beginning to lose his dominating stuff in the AL. there was enough doubt to pass on making the deal. and seeing how he still has not pitched well against the AL this year, albeit for 4 games, shows enough of a trend to say that the yankees made a solid decision to pass on him. and there would've been 5 more years after this one.

again, i have no idea why moose is part of this discussion other than you trying to prove some point about something totally irrelevant to the topic of johan and why the yanks didn't trade for him.

Posted by jaydh:

or you could say it was because he wanted out of minnesota

"again, i have no idea why moose is part of this discussion other than you trying to prove some point about something totally irrelevant to the topic of johan and why the yanks didn't trade for him."

I'm using moose as an example because he's your best pitcher statistically this year and he disproves all the # theories on santana that you are bringing up.

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by jaydh:

or you could say it was because he wanted out of minnesota

"again, i have no idea why moose is part of this discussion other than you trying to prove some point about something totally irrelevant to the topic of johan and why the yanks didn't trade for him."

I'm using moose as an example because he's your best pitcher statistically this year and he disproves all the # theories on santana that you are bringing up.

huh? moose wasn't a free agent looking to sign a 6 year $120 mil deal. yanks wouldn't have signed him either. i have no clue what you're trying to say.

how basic does this need to be? you show santanas games in interleague and say because of that he would be worse in the AL, so i bring up a good AL pitcher and show his worse numbers in the NL. then you say santana had a bad 2nd half which would carry over, so i show how moose had a worse 2nd half and didnt carry over.... anything else to explain?

the interleague from this year is an EXTENSION for this 15 games in the AL last year. it's indicative of what type of pitcher he will be in the AL. but the reasons why it pertains to johan and NOT moose is b/c he was a free agent and wanted 6 years and $120 mil. how do you not see the difference?

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by TMS:

... doubt me now but u'll be patting me on the back later...

just like your 'Hughes>Lester now and in the future'

hey they can't all be can't miss studs like Aaron Heilmann.

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by jaydh:

Posted by djsunyc:

Posted by jaydh:

And to think many thought Melky had value and could be one of the main pieces in getting Johan.

he did have value at the time, but more as a thrown in or sweetener - the real pieces were hughes + kennedy...

only people who thought he had THAT much value are people connected to the yanks. I saw many people on here saying hughes+melky+some 2nd tier guy was enough.

it was enough. and i think too much. johan in the AL = 4 ERA on the 1st year of 6. going to the NL extended his dominating ability 2 years.

[Edited by - djsunyc on 08-06-2008 11:01 AM]