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earthmansurfer
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7/30/2008  6:31 AM
Posted by Knicksfan:

Yes they do but the ability to buy draft picks is kinda overrated. It would happen every time and it doesn't. We for example could've done it last draft but didn't. Maybe we tried and couldn't get it done.

My point is that I think that without the players involved in the trade, Denver would've found no reason to just sell the pick. And the most important piece of the deal for us isn't the pick, but the cap space and the more possible minutes for Chandler and Danilo.

Maybe we could've gotten more from Balkman, maybe not. But I doubt we get the pick without making the whole deal. Just doubting, not 100% sold on my theory either...

I agree. We tried to buy a pick in the second or late first this year to draft Mario Chalmers. Of course Miami had no problem doing it. Anyway, it's an asset to have two second rounders the year we have no first. It's not always a guarantee to get that pick when you want it. We REALLY BLEW IT THIS YEAR BY LETTING NICHOLS SLIP THROUGH = That was Chalmers for nothing. Another thank you to Isiah. (Let the Anger go EMS ;) )

The cap space isn't such a big thing, but saving a million plus (minus what we paid for the pick) is a plus.

Teams were clearly not after Balkman so at least we got something out of it. I think getting rid of Balkman had to with more than just having Chandler and Gallo there. But who really knows (if it was his work ethic or what not).
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Paladin55
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7/30/2008  9:33 AM
This is what we can conclude from the transaction:

1) Balkman's unevolved game had no place/value on a D'Antoni team. I would liken it to the Homo sapiens telling the Neanderthals that they no longer had a place in Europe.

2) We can now admit that Balkman was a reach pick by Isiah. After two years and a revealing SL (Was his game any different than in his rookie SL?) you have a body of work to use for making a judgement on whether Isiah was correct in picking Balkman where he did. He screwed up big time- missing out on a number of solid players that were available. By the way, this is the time to criticize a team's draft, not after seeing a few SL games.

3) Some people have trouble looking at their draft picks objectively. Drafted players are like children to fans, and historically, it would seem that the Knicks have had a lot of children die as youths, or in the case of Fredric Weis, stillborn. We like to see our surviving picks grow and evolve into good players. I was pleasantly surprised by Balkman when he came onto the scene, but he has not progressed at all as a player.

4) Balkman should have been a #2, which is what we ended up with after Green and Jones were waived.

So it goes.

[Edited by - Paladin55 on 07-30-2008 09:34 AM]
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VDesai
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7/30/2008  10:04 AM
I thought Balkman looked like a pretty good value after year 1 and that he actually looked terrific in last year's summer league. If you remember he was primarily playing point forward and had a pretty big impact in the games. However once he got injured, he never really came back the same and then he got inconsistent playing time over the course of the season and the flashes of promise he intially showed were few and far between. I think he may end up being a very useful player in Denver. I think a lot is made about his raw offensive game, but Balk could fill a lane and finish, and while you didn't need to respect his J he could put it on the floor. In that respect he was quite a bit better than Jefferies and probably more efficient than Q who would mostly launch and miss. I actually thought that when Curry was paired with Balkman a lot of defensive pressure was taken off Eddy and we had a more fruitful lineup.
martin
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7/30/2008  10:33 AM
Posted by VDesai:

I thought Balkman looked like a pretty good value after year 1 and that he actually looked terrific in last year's summer league. If you remember he was primarily playing point forward and had a pretty big impact in the games. However once he got injured, he never really came back the same and then he got inconsistent playing time over the course of the season and the flashes of promise he intially showed were few and far between. I think he may end up being a very useful player in Denver. I think a lot is made about his raw offensive game, but Balk could fill a lane and finish, and while you didn't need to respect his J he could put it on the floor. In that respect he was quite a bit better than Jefferies and probably more efficient than Q who would mostly launch and miss. I actually thought that when Curry was paired with Balkman a lot of defensive pressure was taken off Eddy and we had a more fruitful lineup.

Balkman was a very agressive, athletic defender. But he also made a lot of mental mistakes on defense and in terms of team defense.

I think the team was crowded at the 3 spot and he was the easiest to move. If JJSkinny or Q could be moved too, they would be gone.
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Cosmic
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7/30/2008  10:52 AM
Posted by martin:



Balkman was a very agressive, athletic defender. But he also made a lot of mental mistakes on defense and in terms of team defense.

I think the team was crowded at the 3 spot and he was the easiest to move. If JJSkinny or Q could be moved too, they would be gone.

Would anyone had been unhappy if Malik Rose was bought out and Balkman was retained though?

It's kinda the point I've been trying to make regarding what I see as a needless trade.
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VDesai
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7/30/2008  11:00 AM
I think pretty clearly that bball reasons and the money saving reasons don't really wash. It really had to be mainly a character issue and if that's the case they must be dottting the i's on the Marbury and James buyouts, otherwise they are being hypocrtical.
martin
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7/30/2008  11:01 AM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by martin:



Balkman was a very agressive, athletic defender. But he also made a lot of mental mistakes on defense and in terms of team defense.

I think the team was crowded at the 3 spot and he was the easiest to move. If JJSkinny or Q could be moved too, they would be gone.

Would anyone had been unhappy if Malik Rose was bought out and Balkman was retained though?

It's kinda the point I've been trying to make regarding what I see as a needless trade.

I see that but I also see that Donnie is trying to send a message: "play hard, come prepared or we will trade you" and "you will not earn your money by doing nothing"
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BRIGGS
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7/30/2008  11:03 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by martin:



Balkman was a very agressive, athletic defender. But he also made a lot of mental mistakes on defense and in terms of team defense.

I think the team was crowded at the 3 spot and he was the easiest to move. If JJSkinny or Q could be moved too, they would be gone.

Would anyone had been unhappy if Malik Rose was bought out and Balkman was retained though?

It's kinda the point I've been trying to make regarding what I see as a needless trade.

I see that but I also see that Donnie is trying to send a message: "play hard, come prepared or we will trade you" and "you will not earn your money by doing nothing"

Then why is Big Game James on the roster?
RIP Crushalot😞
martin
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7/30/2008  11:07 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by martin:



Balkman was a very agressive, athletic defender. But he also made a lot of mental mistakes on defense and in terms of team defense.

I think the team was crowded at the 3 spot and he was the easiest to move. If JJSkinny or Q could be moved too, they would be gone.

Would anyone had been unhappy if Malik Rose was bought out and Balkman was retained though?

It's kinda the point I've been trying to make regarding what I see as a needless trade.

I see that but I also see that Donnie is trying to send a message: "play hard, come prepared or we will trade you" and "you will not earn your money by doing nothing"

Then why is Big Game James on the roster?

first, no one is trading for him. Probably trying to get a medical exception, which doesn't happen overnight. After that is exhausted, buyout. Same with Marb.
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CrushAlot
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7/30/2008  11:11 AM
Balkman was given a tremendous opportunity for a guy with his limited game. He was not even in most mock drafts in the second round. I think Isiah gave him extra run because he really wanted to prove that he was a true draft guru. Imagine if the Knicks had taken Rondo, Boone, or even Williams.
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djsunyc
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7/30/2008  11:15 AM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by martin:



Balkman was a very agressive, athletic defender. But he also made a lot of mental mistakes on defense and in terms of team defense.

I think the team was crowded at the 3 spot and he was the easiest to move. If JJSkinny or Q could be moved too, they would be gone.

Would anyone had been unhappy if Malik Rose was bought out and Balkman was retained though?

It's kinda the point I've been trying to make regarding what I see as a needless trade.

I see that but I also see that Donnie is trying to send a message: "play hard, come prepared or we will trade you" and "you will not earn your money by doing nothing"

Then why is Big Game James on the roster?
BRIGGS
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7/30/2008  11:54 AM
Posted by CrushAlot:

Balkman was given a tremendous opportunity for a guy with his limited game. He was not even in most mock drafts in the second round. I think Isiah gave him extra run because he really wanted to prove that he was a true draft guru. Imagine if the Knicks had taken Rondo, Boone, or even Williams.

I dont know anything about his character but he has the potential to be a very solid ballplayer. He has 1st team all defensive type potential. So giving up on him for nothing measn something was up or high or something like that. If this guy had a J you would here nothing and he would be on the team.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 07-30-2008 11:57 AM]
RIP Crushalot😞
BRIGGS
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7/30/2008  11:56 AM
Posted by martin:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by martin:



Balkman was a very agressive, athletic defender. But he also made a lot of mental mistakes on defense and in terms of team defense.

I think the team was crowded at the 3 spot and he was the easiest to move. If JJSkinny or Q could be moved too, they would be gone.

Would anyone had been unhappy if Malik Rose was bought out and Balkman was retained though?

It's kinda the point I've been trying to make regarding what I see as a needless trade.

I see that but I also see that Donnie is trying to send a message: "play hard, come prepared or we will trade you" and "you will not earn your money by doing nothing"

Then why is Big Game James on the roster?

first, no one is trading for him. Probably trying to get a medical exception, which doesn't happen overnight. After that is exhausted, buyout. Same with Marb.

If Balkman had a J he would still be on the team whatever his practice habits are. They just signed a guy for 12mm who was caught out at 4am more than strippers from Scores.
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CrushAlot
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7/30/2008  11:59 AM
He can't shoot and his defense last year did not resemble the previous year. He hacked his man all the time. I liked him and found him charismatic but there was no commitment to him and he apparently lacked the commitment to develop his game. He was a huge reach at 20 and never capitalized on the opportunity given him. Coming into the league he was a marginal 2nd round pick. He left the Knicks for a 2nd round pick. That is his market value.
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martin
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7/30/2008  12:00 PM
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by martin:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by martin:



Balkman was a very agressive, athletic defender. But he also made a lot of mental mistakes on defense and in terms of team defense.

I think the team was crowded at the 3 spot and he was the easiest to move. If JJSkinny or Q could be moved too, they would be gone.

Would anyone had been unhappy if Malik Rose was bought out and Balkman was retained though?

It's kinda the point I've been trying to make regarding what I see as a needless trade.

I see that but I also see that Donnie is trying to send a message: "play hard, come prepared or we will trade you" and "you will not earn your money by doing nothing"

Then why is Big Game James on the roster?

first, no one is trading for him. Probably trying to get a medical exception, which doesn't happen overnight. After that is exhausted, buyout. Same with Marb.

If Balkman had a J he would still be on the team whatever his practice habits are. They just signed a guy for 12mm who was caught out at 4am more than strippers from Scores.

if you can't tell the difference between what we have heard about the practice habits of Balkman versus Duhon, the difference between having 4 other SF's on the team with Chandler and Gallo being top potential prospects who are going to eat up playing time versus the need for an actual PG facilitator on the team, then I don't know what you are paying attention to.

Focus on that 4am stripper joint run, cause it matters in the long run.
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OasisBU
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7/30/2008  12:02 PM
Posted by djsunyc:
Posted by BRIGGS:
Posted by martin:
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by martin:



Balkman was a very agressive, athletic defender. But he also made a lot of mental mistakes on defense and in terms of team defense.

I think the team was crowded at the 3 spot and he was the easiest to move. If JJSkinny or Q could be moved too, they would be gone.

Would anyone had been unhappy if Malik Rose was bought out and Balkman was retained though?

It's kinda the point I've been trying to make regarding what I see as a needless trade.

I see that but I also see that Donnie is trying to send a message: "play hard, come prepared or we will trade you" and "you will not earn your money by doing nothing"

Then why is Big Game James on the roster?


"I'm sayin...the proof is in tha numbers ya dig? Tell them boys to stop chirping and put that bird back in the cage"

Wow. I am not sure what he is referring to but it certainly is not his game. Seriously, the NBA should have some kind of rule for players like this - I know there is the medical exemption but still - the NBA needs to come up with something better to get the scrubs out of the league.

[Edited by - oasisbu on 07-30-2008 12:03 PM]
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Pharzeone
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7/30/2008  12:25 PM
That's a valid point Martin but Marbury is a better player than Duhon so what's the point bringing him in here if he has "issues". I am not a big Marbury fan but the guy average 20pgs and 8 assists. If Duhon put up those numbers he wouldn't have signed here. Duhon is a favorite of D'Antoni much like Roberson. That's why they are here. Walsh doesn't have a clue. This is the same guy who selected Fred Jones over Prince just on the word of Isiah while his scouts were pleading to take Prince.
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martin
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7/30/2008  12:31 PM
Posted by Pharzeone:

That's a valid point Martin but Marbury is a better player than Duhon so what's the point bringing him in here if he has "issues". I am not a big Marbury fan but the guy average 20pgs and 8 assists. If Duhon put up those numbers he wouldn't have signed here. Duhon is a favorite of D'Antoni much like Roberson. That's why they are here. Walsh doesn't have a clue. This is the same guy who selected Fred Jones over Prince just on the word of Isiah while his scouts were pleading to take Prince.

Marbury is not a facilitator. Marbury is caca with his perimeter defense. Marbury does not make players around him better. Those are the things that Duhon does.

I think Walsh is playing hesitant with Marbury; if Steph can come out and play and learn Mike's offense and make guys like Curry and Zbo and Gallo and Chandler better, he might be here all year long. If Walsh can find a trade parnter that removes Marbury and brings in the right kind of assets, Duhon is there to cover the PG position.

If Marbury goes whack or disrupts the lockerroom, the front office has a backup plan.

I guess I see a lot of outs by the Duhon signing.

And you know what? The logo signed Brian Cardinal to a contract extension. So what, every GM makes a mistake. And sometimes you do have to give you coach some leeway on roster moves and players.
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Ira
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7/31/2008  10:58 AM
Marbury is just plain bad luck. He comes to a team and they don't go anywhere. He leaves a team and they get better. It's always like that. One poster on this board (Markji) once pointed out that the Marbury curse even got to Steve and Barry's. Just get rid of him as soon as possible. Don't even wait until the season starts.
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