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Sidney Moncrief on Randolph
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CrushAlot
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7/25/2008  9:34 PM
I think you make great points but I will respond with the argument that could be made that Isiah was involved in these decisions. Isiah wanted to make the Knicks Phoenix east. When Walsh arrived the names mentioned as canidates seemed to fit what a rebuilding team with a roster like the Knicks have need. An emphasis on defense, character, hard work, teaching and restoring the reputation of the franchise. Jackson, Johnson, Skiles, Carlisle, etc. all seemed like good fits for the organization and the direction that it seemed to be going. The D'Antoni hire was a big surprise because his style,strengths, weaknesses, and the roster do not fit. Have you heard that before? Style, strengths, weaknesses and roster do not fit. The Knicks out bid for a guy who concentrates on only one part of the game. Has that happened before? The Knicks signed the big name that does not fit with their roster again. Drafting Gallinari also can be linked to Isiah. He scouted him. He is the fifth small forward drafted or acquired by the Knicks on draft night since Isiah's tenure. Other players who fit the needs of the roster were passed up for a guy people don't know alot about. These are all characteristics of Isiah's picks. The Duhon signing reminds alot of the Jeffries signing. A weakness in the roster was identified and the Knicks over paid for a marginal guy who addresses those weaknesses somewhat. Giving the full exemption is typical. Also, when you factor in Isiah's sociopathic tendencies, you know that he will do whatever he can to destroy Marbury and his career. I also think that Walsh was hired on the condition that he keep Isiah. Jerry West was not even interviewed for the position. It is not a reach to have these opinions as long as Isiah is employed by the Knicks.
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oohah
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7/25/2008  9:48 PM
Posted by CrushAlot:

I think you make great points but I will respond with the argument that could be made that Isiah was involved in these decisions. Isiah wanted to make the Knicks Phoenix east. When Walsh arrived the names mentioned as canidates seemed to fit what a rebuilding team with a roster like the Knicks have need. An emphasis on defense, character, hard work, teaching and restoring the reputation of the franchise. Jackson, Johnson, Skiles, Carlisle, etc. all seemed like good fits for the organization and the direction that it seemed to be going. The D'Antoni hire was a big surprise because his style,strengths, weaknesses, and the roster do not fit. Have you heard that before? Style, strengths, weaknesses and roster do not fit. The Knicks out bid for a guy who concentrates on only one part of the game. Has that happened before? The Knicks signed the big name that does not fit with their roster again. Drafting Gallinari also can be linked to Isiah. He scouted him. He is the fifth small forward drafted or acquired by the Knicks on draft night since Isiah's tenure. Other players who fit the needs of the roster were passed up for a guy people don't know alot about. These are all characteristics of Isiah's picks. The Duhon signing reminds alot of the Jeffries signing. A weakness in the roster was identified and the Knicks over paid for a marginal guy who addresses those weaknesses somewhat. Giving the full exemption is typical. Also, when you factor in Isiah's sociopathic tendencies, you know that he will do whatever he can to destroy Marbury and his career. I also think that Walsh was hired on the condition that he keep Isiah. Jerry West was not even interviewed for the position. It is not a reach to have these opinions as long as Isiah is employed by the Knicks.

Who cares if a move is linked to Isiah? If Isiah sez the Knicks should pick up Lebron James should it be rejected?

oohah

Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
nyk4ever
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7/25/2008  9:49 PM
I know Bip has said it before, but honestly some people here have some serious issues about getting over the previous regime.

Although Bip said it much more eloquently and in his Bip way, then I just did.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
VDesai
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7/25/2008  9:51 PM
Posted by CrushAlot:

I think you make great points but I will respond with the argument that could be made that Isiah was involved in these decisions. Isiah wanted to make the Knicks Phoenix east. When Walsh arrived the names mentioned as canidates seemed to fit what a rebuilding team with a roster like the Knicks have need. An emphasis on defense, character, hard work, teaching and restoring the reputation of the franchise. Jackson, Johnson, Skiles, Carlisle, etc. all seemed like good fits for the organization and the direction that it seemed to be going. The D'Antoni hire was a big surprise because his style,strengths, weaknesses, and the roster do not fit. Have you heard that before? Style, strengths, weaknesses and roster do not fit. The Knicks out bid for a guy who concentrates on only one part of the game. Has that happened before? The Knicks signed the big name that does not fit with their roster again. Drafting Gallinari also can be linked to Isiah. He scouted him. He is the fifth small forward drafted or acquired by the Knicks on draft night since Isiah's tenure. Other players who fit the needs of the roster were passed up for a guy people don't know alot about. These are all characteristics of Isiah's picks. The Duhon signing reminds alot of the Jeffries signing. A weakness in the roster was identified and the Knicks over paid for a marginal guy who addresses those weaknesses somewhat. Giving the full exemption is typical. Also, when you factor in Isiah's sociopathic tendencies, you know that he will do whatever he can to destroy Marbury and his career. I also think that Walsh was hired on the condition that he keep Isiah. Jerry West was not even interviewed for the position. It is not a reach to have these opinions as long as Isiah is employed by the Knicks.


There's quite a big difference in giving the full MLE for 2 years vs. 6. The former contract is not an albatross at all...
nixluva
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7/25/2008  10:51 PM
Posted by CrushAlot:

I think you make great points but I will respond with the argument that could be made that Isiah was involved in these decisions. Isiah wanted to make the Knicks Phoenix east. When Walsh arrived the names mentioned as canidates seemed to fit what a rebuilding team with a roster like the Knicks have need. An emphasis on defense, character, hard work, teaching and restoring the reputation of the franchise. Jackson, Johnson, Skiles, Carlisle, etc. all seemed like good fits for the organization and the direction that it seemed to be going. The D'Antoni hire was a big surprise because his style,strengths, weaknesses, and the roster do not fit. Have you heard that before? Style, strengths, weaknesses and roster do not fit. The Knicks out bid for a guy who concentrates on only one part of the game. Has that happened before? The Knicks signed the big name that does not fit with their roster again. Drafting Gallinari also can be linked to Isiah. He scouted him. He is the fifth small forward drafted or acquired by the Knicks on draft night since Isiah's tenure. Other players who fit the needs of the roster were passed up for a guy people don't know alot about. These are all characteristics of Isiah's picks. The Duhon signing reminds alot of the Jeffries signing. A weakness in the roster was identified and the Knicks over paid for a marginal guy who addresses those weaknesses somewhat. Giving the full exemption is typical. Also, when you factor in Isiah's sociopathic tendencies, you know that he will do whatever he can to destroy Marbury and his career. I also think that Walsh was hired on the condition that he keep Isiah. Jerry West was not even interviewed for the position. It is not a reach to have these opinions as long as Isiah is employed by the Knicks.

While I can understand the clear similarities and the known closeness of Isiah to this new regime, some of this is purely speculation.

The idea that Isiah wanted a PHX like system and somehow influenced Walsh to pick D'Antoni seems like merely a coincidence, D'Antoni was available and just happened to be the most accomplished and successful coach of the bunch. He's on the USA Olympic team and his teams have won a ton of games. Walsh wouldn't need Isiah to figure out that he'd be a good selection for coach.

Let's remember that Walsh had Carlisle and let him go, Skiles is more of the same and Jackson was far less experienced and accomplished than Mike D.

You mention "An emphasis on defense, character, hard work, teaching and restoring the reputation of the franchise" as the obvious direction for our rebuild, but the roster is clearly split between an uptempo team and a half court team. With that in mind hiring Mike D over coaches who stress D, was a judgement call and not a sign that Isiah was still making the final calls. Mike does thing differently but he wins and is a well respected coach.

Dolan could've demanded that any new GM had to keep Isiah employed until his contract is fulfilled. West could've taken jobs with other teams and hasn't, do we know he's even looking for work?
Paladin55
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7/26/2008  12:52 AM
Golden State should just retire Randolph's jersey now, since superstardom is a guaranteed thing for him after his SL exploits. Heck, he should have been drafted # 1- right?


Isiah did not make the Gallinari pick, he just brought back info which confirmed what other scouts, including many not working for the Knicks, already knew about him.

This could be a draft where a number of guys who dropped end up proving that the organizations who passed on them were wrong, but nobody knows anything about the future at this point.

Moncrief was a great player- the type of SG that the Knicks could really use because he was smart, had an offensive game, and played great defense- but he works for the organization that drafted Randolph. I liked Randolph's humble comment about the NBA and the SL. Hopefully he will be a grounded kid who reaches his potential.

By the way, the pre-draft stats have Randolph at 6'9" and about 195 lbs., and judging from what I see of his frame, he is not the kind of guy who will put on a lot of weight as he grows older. He may grow taller, but I think you can expect him to be a T. Prince type in terms of body, and I am not even sure that you would want him to bulk up too much because it may slow him down.

Lets see this entire draft crop play 4-5 years and then start making legitimate evaluations of who should have been drafted when.

[Edited by - Paladin55 on 07-26-2008 12:55 AM]
No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
BRIGGS
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7/26/2008  2:03 AM
Posted by Paladin55:

Golden State should just retire Randolph's jersey now, since superstardom is a guaranteed thing for him after his SL exploits. Heck, he should have been drafted # 1- right?


Isiah did not make the Gallinari pick, he just brought back info which confirmed what other scouts, including many not working for the Knicks, already knew about him.

This could be a draft where a number of guys who dropped end up proving that the organizations who passed on them were wrong, but nobody knows anything about the future at this point.

Moncrief was a great player- the type of SG that the Knicks could really use because he was smart, had an offensive game, and played great defense- but he works for the organization that drafted Randolph. I liked Randolph's humble comment about the NBA and the SL. Hopefully he will be a grounded kid who reaches his potential.

By the way, the pre-draft stats have Randolph at 6'9" and about 195 lbs., and judging from what I see of his frame, he is not the kind of guy who will put on a lot of weight as he grows older. He may grow taller, but I think you can expect him to be a T. Prince type in terms of body, and I am not even sure that you would want him to bulk up too much because it may slow him down.

Lets see this entire draft crop play 4-5 years and then start making legitimate evaluations of who should have been drafted when.

[Edited by - Paladin55 on 07-26-2008 12:55 AM]

When he's done growing and settles in around 7-0 225 in a few years you will have a 20-10-5 player. I hope Gallinari is comparable because not only is this kid going to be a good scorer rebounder and passer--he's going to be a disruptive -type defender. He's got the superior talent--he's going to have the perfect size and strength for his type of game and it comes with thw work ethic and attitude. He's got one helluva serious package---I think by year 3 this kid is going to be an NBA monster even better than what I had originally thought.
And for all of this jargin of how skinny he is--he doesnt play skinny--he plays powerful and without fear. He took a bad angle hit and sprained his ankle in the second game of SL --but he didnt quit like some other players.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TxUM_lw4aSk

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 07-26-2008 02:11 AM]
RIP Crushalot😞
Anji
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7/26/2008  6:51 AM
I'm starting to believe that Danillo was Isiahs plan to get him some breathing room if he was still the coach this year and that was long decided before Walsh or Mike D made it to the knicks..

I think we should have taken Randolph if we were going to take a project. Because the run and gun team with the skilled finesse forward is what the Mavs are. Mike D had 4 long fast athletic scorers with the skilled point guard, that was the suns run & gun.

AR fit Marion/Amare to a T, why didn't we take him????

"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
Bippity10
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7/27/2008  2:21 PM
I don't understand the point of Briggs posts anymore. We get it, YOU LIKE RANDOLPH. Move forward with your life. It's over, you can't go back. We can't redo the pick.

What is the point, do you want us all to picket outside of the garden? Maybe write some letters to the NBA head office and see if they will give us a do over on the pick? What is the end game here. These posts are as pointless as anything BasketballJones has ever said.

[Edited by - bippity10 on 27-07-2008 2:22 PM]
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Bippity10
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7/27/2008  2:23 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:



Although Bip said it much more eloquently and in his Bip way, then I just did.

This is the first intelligent thing you've ever said.
I just hope that people will like me
Paladin55
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7/27/2008  2:27 PM
Posted by Anji:

I'm starting to believe that Danillo was Isiahs plan to get him some breathing room if he was still the coach this year and that was long decided before Walsh or Mike D made it to the knicks..

I think we should have taken Randolph if we were going to take a project. Because the run and gun team with the skilled finesse forward is what the Mavs are. Mike D had 4 long fast athletic scorers with the skilled point guard, that was the suns run & gun.

AR fit Marion/Amare to a T, why didn't we take him????


The conspiracy theory regarding Isiah is totally ridiculous. Why even throw it out? Walsh and D'Antoni would not risk their positions on what Isiah wanted. And why do you think that D'Antoni wanted Gallinari move than a Randolph for his system? Don't you think that D'Antoni would have given this some thought and let Walsh know how he felt?

No man is happy without a delusion of some kind. Delusions are as necessary to our happiness as realities- C.N. Bovee
CrushAlot
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7/27/2008  2:41 PM
D'Antoni was quoted as saying he did not want Gallinari. Regarding a conspiracy, I believe Walsh was hired with the condition that Isiah not be fired. Isiah has a role and the extent of his power is not known. However, I am sure that he still has Dolan's ear and that alone is frightening.
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Uptown
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7/27/2008  2:47 PM
Posted by CrushAlot:

D'Antoni was quoted as saying he did not want Gallinari. Regarding a conspiracy, I believe Walsh was hired with the condition that Isiah not be fired. Isiah has a role and the extent of his power is not known. However, I am sure that he still has Dolan's ear and that alone is frightening.

When and where di D'Antoni say this? I hope your not refering to those reports about D'Antoni watching some tape on Gallo a couple of years ago and not being overly impressed. If thats whats your refering to, thats not a direct quote and is a serious reach by you. If you have a seperate quote, I would like to see it.
oohah
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7/27/2008  2:53 PM
Was Moncrief talking about Randolph Morris?

oohah
Good luck Mike D'Antoni, 'cause you ain't never seen nothing like this before!
CrushAlot
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7/27/2008  3:03 PM

Suns Source: D’Antoni not in love with Gallinari
By Tommy Dee - May 28, 2008 9:35 am


Chad Ford of ESPN spoke to a source close to the Suns who said Mike D’Antoni wasn’t in love with Danilo Gallinari when he watched him on tape earlier this year.

For the second straight time I have Italy’s Danilo Gallinari going to the Knicks with the sixth pick in my latest mock draft. It makes a lot of sense. Gallinari’s father played with new coach Mike D’Antoni. D’Antoni likes European players and knows how to use them. Gallinari’s style of play is perfect for the offense D’Antoni likes to run.

But there’s a hitch. A Suns source swore to me Tuesday night that when they showed D’Antoni tape of Gallinari during the year, he wasn’t a fan.

“Mike said he’s just not sure the kid has what it takes to make it in the NBA,” the source said. “He said he’d be very nervous picking him in the mid-first round. I doubt he’s become converted since he joined the Knicks.”

Another source made an even more compelling argument: “Whether Mike loves him or hates him, Donnie Walsh is making this pick. He’s the guy who has to take the heat and he’s not going to pass that decision on to anyone else. What matters most is whether Donnie likes him.”

Take this for what it’s worth. Obviously, watching a tape some time ago, and actually scouting someone live, are two different things. It’s hard to imagine that D’Antoni has a problem with the kid’s skill set, he’s perfect for the offensive system. Maybe it’s his attitude, and like with Mayo I’d pass, this team already has plenty of that.


From Marc Berman:
In his only known assignment since being fired, Isiah Thomas was dispatched by Walsh to Italy to scout Gallinari in May during a 10-day sojourn with European scout Kevin Wilson.

There was a report last month that despite D'Antoni's friendship with his father, Vittorio (they were Italian league teammates), he wasn't sold on Gallinari until the last two weeks after his Westchester workout.

"Our scouts loved him," D'Antoni said. "They convinced me on it."

The Knicks hope Gallinari can play power forward. Walsh said before the draft some of the combo guards he was interested in could be gone by the time he picked, and apparently they were. An Indiana source said Walsh was in love with Westbrook before the NCAA tournament. But he went fourth to Seattle. Gordon was taken after Gallinari at No. 7.

marc.berman@nypost.com


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7/27/2008  3:12 PM
Posted by Paladin55:
Posted by Anji:

I'm starting to believe that Danillo was Isiahs plan to get him some breathing room if he was still the coach this year and that was long decided before Walsh or Mike D made it to the knicks..

I think we should have taken Randolph if we were going to take a project. Because the run and gun team with the skilled finesse forward is what the Mavs are. Mike D had 4 long fast athletic scorers with the skilled point guard, that was the suns run & gun.

AR fit Marion/Amare to a T, why didn't we take him????


The conspiracy theory regarding Isiah is totally ridiculous. Why even throw it out? Walsh and D'Antoni would not risk their positions on what Isiah wanted. And why do you think that D'Antoni wanted Gallinari move than a Randolph for his system? Don't you think that D'Antoni would have given this some thought and let Walsh know how he felt?

Mike'D isn't risking anything. I don't think it's far fetched to think the Isiah is in Walshes ear. Why would I think that........ because Walsh sent Isiah to scout Danillo, that's why.

[Edited by - anji on 07-27-2008 3:13 PM]
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7/27/2008  3:18 PM
Posted by Uptown:
Posted by CrushAlot:

D'Antoni was quoted as saying he did not want Gallinari. Regarding a conspiracy, I believe Walsh was hired with the condition that Isiah not be fired. Isiah has a role and the extent of his power is not known. However, I am sure that he still has Dolan's ear and that alone is frightening.

When and where di D'Antoni say this? I hope your not refering to those reports about D'Antoni watching some tape on Gallo a couple of years ago and not being overly impressed. If thats whats your refering to, thats not a direct quote and is a serious reach by you. If you have a seperate quote, I would like to see it.

KNICKS GO DANILO
WALSH TAKES ITALIAN STALLION AT NO. 6
By MARC BERMAN
DAN OF A NEW DAY: Italian forward Danilo Gallinari celebrates with his family after being selected by the Knicks with the No. 6 pick in the NBA Draft last night.
Last updated: 6:59 am
June 27, 2008
Posted: 3:52 am
June 27, 2008

When Mike D'Antoni walked into the interview room last night at the KnicksNew York Knicks ' Westchester practice facility, the coach blurted, "Are we doing this in Italian or English?"

So begins the Knicks' Italian Stallion Era, and possibly the end of David LeeDavid Lee .

Donnie Walsh and the Italian-speaking D'Antoni made the Italian League phenom Danilo Gallinari a Knick last night. They chose the defensively challenged Gallinari with the sixth pick amid mostly boos from the Garden's theatre crowd.

"I'll be more worried if they're booing him next year," D'Antoni said.

Point guards O.J. Mayo and Russell Westbrook were off the board, and the Knicks decided Gallinari has more upside than Indiana sharpshooter Eric Gordon. D'Antoni said Gallinari is 6-foot-10 in sneakers, and still growing.

"He'll be a 6-11,3-point shooting, ball handler and passer," D'Antoni said. "We think he has the potential to be above a good player. That's how you build a team. We're starting with him."

But D'Antoni added, "Hopefully someone will teach him how to play defense."

Gallinari's addition means the Knicks likely will trade Lee this summer for a point guard. Charlotte reportedly is interested, with Raymond Felton. The Knicks nearly dealt Lee to Memphis for their fifth pick, with Walsh saying a deal was "close."

The new regime apparently feels Lee is limited and are hesitant want to give him a lavish contract extension by October because it could hurt their ability to get under the cap in 2010.

Nevertheless, Gallinari could be more limited, especially defensively. All scouts admit he's not too athletic, lacks lateral quickness and might be a bad defender on a Knicks' team who has stunk on defense for seven years. D'Antoni said he believes Gallinari will bulk up - he's 227 pounds - and become a better defender and Walsh scoffed at the notion.

"Most likely others are freshman in college and aren't schooled in lateral, moving of their feet," Walsh said. "All these guys need work."

Asked whom Gallinari reminded him of, D'Antoni said, "If you're dreaming, it's (Dirk) Nowitzki and (Toni) Kukoc," D'Antoni said. "If it's a nightmare, it's someone else."

Apparently there weren't enough Italians at the Garden last night. But there are plenty in New York - which is why Gallinari had targeted the Knicks and Nets as his top two choices.

"I'm so excited," Gallinari said. "I have no words."

As far as the boos, Gallinari added, "It's part of the game. It's normal here."

In his only known assignment since being fired, Isiah Thomas was dispatched by Walsh to Italy to scout Gallinari in May during a 10-day sojourn with European scout Kevin Wilson.

There was a report last month that despite D'Antoni's friendship with his father, Vittorio (they were Italian league teammates), he wasn't sold on Gallinari until the last two weeks after his Westchester workout.

"Our scouts loved him," D'Antoni said. "They convinced me on it."

The Knicks hope Gallinari can play power forward. Walsh said before the draft some of the combo guards he was interested in could be gone by the time he picked, and apparently they were. An Indiana source said Walsh was in love with Westbrook before the NCAA tournament. But he went fourth to Seattle. Gordon was taken after Gallinari at No. 7.


I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Anji
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7/27/2008  3:24 PM
^^^ That's what I'm saying. Isaih loved him.......... and he convicted Walsh, would be my theory.
"Really, all Americans want is a cold beer, warm p***y, and some place to s**t with a door on it." - Mr. Ford
Pharzeone
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7/27/2008  3:25 PM
LOL, Crush beat me to it.
I don't like to play bad rookies , I like to play good rookies - Mike D'Antoni
Uptown
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7/27/2008  3:39 PM
Still dont see where D'Antoni said "He did not want to draft him." Who the hell is this source? Maybe Gallo, along with a few other prospects where on the same plain in D'Antoni's mind and his Scouts reports pushed Gallo out in front a little.

So Isiah gets all the credit and not Kevin Wilson? D'Antoni said scouts, not scout, I.E Isiah Thomas. For someone who has been involved in basketball longer than some of us have been alive, let alone BB fans, Walsh is sure getting shortchanged by some here. To believe a man of Walsh's integrity will be anybody's puppet is a joke.

[Edited by - uptown on 07-27-2008 3:40 PM]

[Edited by - uptown on 07-27-2008 3:41 PM]
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