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Deng gives Bulls deadline; Knicks monitoring [blog article]
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franco12
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7/24/2008  9:33 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Cosmic:

If you can acquire Luol Deng you do it. There's nothing to discuss IMO he's a very solid player.

At least we'd be finally getting an ex-Chicago Bull that's good at something other than being fat, crappy, and overpaid.

If Isiah was still here he'd be trying to get Ben Gordon to pair him with Crawful.
Agreed. I wouldn't even worry about the 2010 cap because Deng is movable if necessary.

One thing: There was NO decline in Deng's productivity last year. He simply played 4 less mpg.

Does adding him put us over the top?

Does he do anything that we can't get out of Wilson Chandler and Balkman? Perhaps not now, but in 2-3 years?

Adding expensive pieces to a roster that needs to be gutted is how we've ended up where we are.
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fishmike
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7/24/2008  9:35 AM
Posted by djsunyc:

offer up deng for ok4. they're better off re-signing ben gordon for $15 mil cheaper since his skill (jumpshooting) is harder to find. an above average sf as your best player isn't going to get you far in the playoffs.
man... sticking OK4 on the Bulls would be pretty nasty... and I agree on Gordon. He's a finisher. Great jump shot, proven clutch player... if your a good team Gordon is going to win you a lot of games because he's so difficult to guard come crunch time.

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Bonn1997
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7/24/2008  10:03 AM
Posted by franco12:
Posted by Bonn1997:
Posted by Cosmic:

If you can acquire Luol Deng you do it. There's nothing to discuss IMO he's a very solid player.

At least we'd be finally getting an ex-Chicago Bull that's good at something other than being fat, crappy, and overpaid.

If Isiah was still here he'd be trying to get Ben Gordon to pair him with Crawful.
Agreed. I wouldn't even worry about the 2010 cap because Deng is movable if necessary.

One thing: There was NO decline in Deng's productivity last year. He simply played 4 less mpg.

Does adding him put us over the top?

Does he do anything that we can't get out of Wilson Chandler and Balkman? Perhaps not now, but in 2-3 years?

Adding expensive pieces to a roster that needs to be gutted is how we've ended up where we are.

I'd always take the proven thing over a prospect who could turn into anything. If we're willing to ditch Crawford, Curry, and Randolph for ANYTHING with one less year on their contract, then, no, Deng won't put us over the cap in 2010. Deng would also be a strong piece in any S & T to get one of the top 2010 FAs.
tkf
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7/24/2008  10:50 AM
Posted by TMS:

it would take Malik's expiring, D Lee & Chandler to have any shot at Deng... they won't be interested in Curry or Zach... the contracts still don't match up if u'r looking at signing him to a $12 mil per extension... personally i don't think he's worth that much... Josh Howard is a better player than he is & is making significantly less.

[Edited by - TMS on 07-23-2008 9:07 PM]

I agree, deng just got greedy.. as you said, josh howard is a better player and making a lot less, the same with ron artest... These inflated salaries are going to hurt the league.. How are you going to put out a good product when you pay guys like deng 12 mil a year? how?
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fishmike
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7/24/2008  10:53 AM
If I am Deng I want to be paid like Rashard Lewis.

tfk.. I agree with you, but market value has been set and clearly the Bulls are below what Deng thinks he can be paid.
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tkf
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7/24/2008  10:53 AM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by TMS:

it would take Malik's expiring, D Lee & Chandler to have any shot at Deng... they won't be interested in Curry or Zach... the contracts still don't match up if u'r looking at signing him to a $12 mil per extension... personally i don't think he's worth that much... Josh Howard is a better player than he is & is making significantly less.

[Edited by - TMS on 07-23-2008 9:07 PM]

I dunno dude, I think Deng is better than Howard in almost every facet of the game except 3pt shooting. Deng is also 5 years younger and still has 5 years before he even enters his prime.

the only thing Deng is better at than Howard is being 5 years younger... that doesn't mean he's gonna improve exponentially in the next 5 years to surpass 20 & 7 type stats... i think they're pretty similar but i would not pay him $12 mil per if i could potentially land a guy like Josh Howard in a S&T for less dollars.

[Edited by - TMS on 07-23-2008 9:15 PM]

great point.. I love when people throw age into it as a deciding factor... I mean it is not like josh howard is 34. The guy at 28 still has his best years ahead of him.. I loved when people used to say, "lebron is only 19" as if he is going to be 3x better by time he is 26...LOL.. some players peak early, I do see some growth in deng, but maybe his upside is josh howard.. and that is not a bad thing at all!

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Ira
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7/24/2008  11:01 AM
Deng is 23. His best years are ahead of him. You want to get under the cap in hopes of signing a talent like that. I think missing time last season hurt his numbers. I think he's a 20 - 7/8 guy at sf with very good d this season and maybe better in the future. I'd trade Chandler + some contracts we want to get rid of. Since Chicago was supposedly interested in Zach, we could try to package Chandler and Zach for Deng and their 2010 first round pick with top 3 protection.
EnySpree
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7/24/2008  11:11 AM
Nonsense.......again if Deng is being discussed what the hell we draft Gallo for?

Also, what's the difference between Zach and Deng? It might be that Zach is better.
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Markji
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7/24/2008  11:25 AM
Posted by Ira:

Deng is 23. His best years are ahead of him. You want to get under the cap in hopes of signing a talent like that. I think missing time last season hurt his numbers. I think he's a 20 - 7/8 guy at sf with very good d this season and maybe better in the future. I'd trade Chandler + some contracts we want to get rid of. Since Chicago was supposedly interested in Zach, we could try to package Chandler and Zach for Deng and their 2010 first round pick with top 3 protection.
Same trade but I'd substitue Curry instead of Zach and then we might be a pretty good team. Zach, Lee, Deng, upfront with Gallo, etc off the bench. We'd need a back-up defensive center. But if we get Deng, I don't see how we go after LeBron. Both are SF. and we'd be over the cap.

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fishmike
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7/24/2008  11:32 AM
no way... to me Chandler has all the tools to be a bigtime NBA player. He plays on both ends, he rebounds, good passer, good scorer and elite athlete at 21 years old. He also comes off as a pretty tough guy. Chandler definatly has Igodalla type potential and it would be lunacy to include him in any kind of trade.

I would not be suprised that fans say as a footnote to Isiah's crap tenure that "at least he drafted Chandler."
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martin
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7/24/2008  11:38 AM
Posted by Markji:
Posted by Ira:

Deng is 23. His best years are ahead of him. You want to get under the cap in hopes of signing a talent like that. I think missing time last season hurt his numbers. I think he's a 20 - 7/8 guy at sf with very good d this season and maybe better in the future. I'd trade Chandler + some contracts we want to get rid of. Since Chicago was supposedly interested in Zach, we could try to package Chandler and Zach for Deng and their 2010 first round pick with top 3 protection.
Same trade but I'd substitue Curry instead of Zach and then we might be a pretty good team. Zach, Lee, Deng, upfront with Gallo, etc off the bench. We'd need a back-up defensive center. But if we get Deng, I don't see how we go after LeBron. Both are SF. and we'd be over the cap.

is that situation, you trade Deng for a re-signed LeBron.
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tkf
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7/24/2008  11:40 AM
Posted by Cosmic:

If you can acquire Luol Deng you do it. There's nothing to discuss IMO he's a very solid player.

At least we'd be finally getting an ex-Chicago Bull that's good at something other than being fat, crappy, and overpaid.

If Isiah was still here he'd be trying to get Ben Gordon to pair him with Crawful.


he would still be overpaid..... If we get deng, we will have to grossly overpay...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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7/24/2008  11:41 AM
Posted by Bonn1997:

Deng's better than half the guys in the league on max contracts. Wasn't that your criterion for Okafor?

yes, and those guys are overpaid albatrosses on their teams.... why should we make a mistake because other teams have? I like deng, but chicago gave him a fair as hell offer...
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Cosmic
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7/24/2008  11:52 AM
Posted by tkf:




he would still be overpaid..... If we get deng, we will have to grossly overpay...

Who isn't? I think Deng wanted 70M, Bulls offered 50M. (Gordon wanted 75, bulls offered 57).

Is Crawford worth the contract he got? No, he's overpaid. Chris Wilcox? No. Curry? No. etc etc etc... but, it's what they're getting.

If Crawford got a brand new deal starting today with his present salary it'd be 8.6, 9.4, 10.2, 11.8, 12.5.

I think Luol Deng would be worth that. He's a solid all-around high character player. He's exactly what I'd want as a starting SF.
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tkf
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7/24/2008  11:53 AM
Posted by fishmike:

If I am Deng I want to be paid like Rashard Lewis.

tfk.. I agree with you, but market value has been set and clearly the Bulls are below what Deng thinks he can be paid.

good point, and that is why I am so upset with orlando giving lewis that much loot..

And as a player all you see are guys with equal or lesser skills getting more money and you want that too.. As a team, you have to do what is best for the organization... I do think the salary cap needs some adjusment... but as a team, giving deng anything close to rashard lewis money is salary cap death.... The difference with deng and a guy like childress is that deng is a much less flawed player, so he is going to get somewhere in between what he wants and the bulls breaking point, that is just my opinion.... whereas guys like childress will just have to go overseas to get that extra loot.. that is fine with me. Deng is a much better player....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Cosmic
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7/24/2008  11:53 AM
Posted by EnySpree:

Nonsense.......again if Deng is being discussed what the hell we draft Gallo for?

Also, what's the difference between Zach and Deng? It might be that Zach is better.

Deng plays defense, is a great team player, a high character guy.
Zach is one dimensional, is selfish and arrogant and disruptive.

People really need to get beyond the whole "23/10" thing with Zach and understand he's a terrible TEAM BASKETBALL player. Just terrible.

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tkf
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7/24/2008  11:54 AM
Posted by fishmike:

no way... to me Chandler has all the tools to be a bigtime NBA player. He plays on both ends, he rebounds, good passer, good scorer and elite athlete at 21 years old. He also comes off as a pretty tough guy. Chandler definatly has Igodalla type potential and it would be lunacy to include him in any kind of trade.

I would not be suprised that fans say as a footnote to Isiah's crap tenure that "at least he drafted Chandler."


I agree.. when will we just sit back and develop our own guys.. i would like to see chandler and gallo play together and for once have someone rave about our young guys.. No way do you move chandler....
Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Cosmic
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7/24/2008  12:00 PM
I agree, deng just got greedy.. as you said, josh howard is a better player and making a lot less, the same with ron artest... These inflated salaries are going to hurt the league.. How are you going to put out a good product when you pay guys like deng 12 mil a year? how?

The League is a joke with their cap/lux tax thresholds. However, that shouldn't stop us from pursuing a good player.

As to the league: In my opinion the allowance on contract sizes far outweighs to overall roster allowance in terms of the cap.

How do you fix that? The cap should be raised a LARGE amount since you can never tell these guys "oops, thats it, max contracts are 5M per year now!".

A team has 15 players?

Fine.

3 Max Contracts (any great team has 3 max guys)
9 MLE Contracts
3 Min Contracts.

No, I'm not talking matching up player to player (9 guys all making MLE), I'm talking in total.

Whatever the total of 3 max, 9 mle, and 3 min comes to? That should be the cap. That way teams aren't bent over by the cap.

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Separate:

To those still looking at 2010, LeBron, etc. Hey, those are pipe dreams, you don't pass on a good player to HOPE you land a great one 2 years later. Just ask the Orlando Magic and John Gabriel. That clown disposed of player after player looking to land Tim Duncan in 2000. Then proceeded to pass on deal after deal to maintain his hope that in 2003 Duncan would finally come. Duncan never did and the Magic were a big pile of garbage all those years as a DIRECT RESULT of the "get cap space, get lebron" type idea. You can't operate like that.

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nyk4ever
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7/24/2008  12:13 PM
Posted by tkf:


great point.. I love when people throw age into it as a deciding factor... I mean it is not like josh howard is 34. The guy at 28 still has his best years ahead of him.. I loved when people used to say, "lebron is only 19" as if he is going to be 3x better by time he is 26...LOL.. some players peak early, I do see some growth in deng, but maybe his upside is josh howard.. and that is not a bad thing at all!

TKF, I never said age was a deciding factor, to me it's an added bonus. How can Deng's upside be Josh Howard when he already puts up Josh Howard numbers at 5 years less of age?

Besides, Martin made a good point earlier. Anytime we can get an asset like Deng, it's a good thing. We can always trade Deng (or keep him) in 2010, but it would be nice to have a option that can traded to the rest of the league, instead of the rut we're in.

And another thing, Howard is NOT much cheaper than Deng. Howard is going to make 10 mill this year and 11 mill next year. Deng is going to get around the same exact money.
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EnySpree
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7/24/2008  12:41 PM
If the Knicks sign and trade Deng its a good thing......

But......

What would be the plan then?
Deng and who?.......what is the focus? Are we starphuching? My thing is if Deng comes, he needs to be built around with the money he wants. I have no problem building around Deng but that totally flips the scrip big time.
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Deng gives Bulls deadline; Knicks monitoring [blog article]

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