Posted by VDesai:

We still have our draft pick this year. I have no problem making it a good one.

agreed... i really don't care if we have to tank another year before we become good again, as long as we establish some of that team concept & guys start playing for each other instead of for themselves.

The Knicks won't make the playoffs next season. Not with Duhon being one of the Primary PGs. Which I guess is good because they need that draft pick. Also I wish Donnie would trade for more picks. I dunno, I'm not sure exactly what his plan is. It seems like Walsh doesn't want to gut the roster, but rather make changes to it, and remove the bad influences from it.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by VDesai:

We still have our draft pick this year. I have no problem making it a good one.

agreed... i really don't care if we have to tank another year before we become good again, as long as we establish some of that team concept & guys start playing for each other instead of for themselves.

The most imperative thing is to continue to add more talent and develop it for the next couple of seasons.

Posted by TMS:

Posted by bitty41:

This type of thinking from fans is why I've lost almost all interest in the Knicks. The NBA just doesn't make sense anymore if winning isn't the objective why play sports just have the team do arts and crafts all season long instead play basketball.

what type of thinking do you not understand? you mean realistic thinking? or your type of fantasizing that every senseless starphuch type acquisition is going to lead this franchise to longterm future success? i don't think anything i've outlined above is irrational or unrealistic in our current state of affairs... expecting to make the playoffs w/the current roster is however IMHO.

i never said making the playoffs shouldn't be an objective, only that it should not be expected this season & is not an essential outcome of this upcoming season... we should look to address those other goals before any thoughts of making the playoffs enter into our brains is what i'm saying here.

btw, if what i or anyone else thinks is making you lose interest in the team you supposedly love that's pretty ridiculous.

[Edited by - TMS on 07-10-2008 05:46 AM]

You've been preaching the same tiresome mentality for awhile now. As much as you like to view yourself as some kind of authority on all things salary cap and managing a professional team that really isn't my issue. What is my issue NBA team after NBA team basically just tanking which some fans apparently support. Whats the point of the NBA anymore other then the 12 to 15 teams that are actually trying to win games.

How many times are we going to watch the team with the worse record miss out on the number one pick before it premeates some people's brains that losing as many games as possible is not a guranteed path to success. However what is a guranteed path to success is putting a quality product on the floor that has the objective of winning.

see bitty, this always has to deteriorate into an insult match with you... i'm not going there, it's getting old.

i'm not preaching about anything here... i'm just relaying realistic expectations for the team next year plain & simple... no freakin' kidding the objective is to put a quality product on the floor w/a goal of winning games... the point is that you wanna target a sensible plan to achieve that quality product w/o targetting ridiculous contracts that add nothing to the overall product... if u honestly expect to make the playoffs next year w/this current roster, fine... enjoy the season but don't be bitterly disappointed later when your dreams don't get realized & then complain to people like me that the reason we can't make a run at the playoffs is because we're so hung up on this salary cap flexibility in 2010 business... for the record, that "same tiresome mentality" is the same focus that was set forth by Donnie Walsh... if u got an issue with it, you should probably be bashing on him rather than complaining about me.

[Edited by - TMS on 07-10-2008 06:27 AM]

Posted by VDesai:

The point isn't to purposely lose as many as possible. But when you've been as bad as long as the Knicks you need to be thinking long term fix rather than short term bandage. The Knicks have tried to patch things together a few years and dug themselves in a far deeper hole.

I think fans realize you can't be great every year- being bad a couple years is not the worst thing if you keep your picks, don't put yourself in a position where you can' get better (i.e. adding albatross salary), and have a plan for developing your young talent. That's all we ask for right now. Yeah, it'd be fantastic if D'Antoni magically turned this into a 50 win team, but we need to be realistic and put the tools in place to really have a great team again.

Your first paragraph is completely irrelevant because when you've had NOT one but TWO incomptent GMs everything goes out the window both clearly lacked any ability to build a proper team and both were medicore at best evaluating talent. Whats you're threshold 10, 15, 20, years maybe the legacy of the Clippers would that be enough losing at what point does the line need to the drawn that this the season that we win at all costs?

For some fans a few years sure if we were talking about FEW YEARS and not close to 10 years. Right now the talk is 2010 to get Lebron then when we miss out on him, the talk will be signing Chris Paul, then when we miss out on him the talk will be signing Brandon Roy and so on and so on.

TMS,

Stop being a baby would it make you feel better if I referred to you as "sir" and said "may I" when disagreeing with you get over yourself already lol. I question your logic on the Knick's direction NOT you personally and this isn's some kind of attack on you're character capiche.

[Edited by - bitty41 on 07-10-2008 09:41 AM]

Posted by bitty41:

TMS,

Stop being a baby would it make you feel better if I referred to you as "sir" and said "may I" when disagreeing with you get over yourself already lol. I question your logic on the Knick's direction NOT you personally and this isn's some kind of attack on you're character capiche.

Bitty, you are not addressing TMS's idea's but rather him. Maybe you should take some of your own advice? The getting over yourself part?

Posted by bitty41:

Posted by VDesai:

The point isn't to purposely lose as many as possible. But when you've been as bad as long as the Knicks you need to be thinking long term fix rather than short term bandage. The Knicks have tried to patch things together a few years and dug themselves in a far deeper hole.

I think fans realize you can't be great every year- being bad a couple years is not the worst thing if you keep your picks, don't put yourself in a position where you can' get better (i.e. adding albatross salary), and have a plan for developing your young talent. That's all we ask for right now. Yeah, it'd be fantastic if D'Antoni magically turned this into a 50 win team, but we need to be realistic and put the tools in place to really have a great team again.

Your first paragraph is completely irrelevant because when you've had NOT one but TWO incomptent GMs everything goes out the window both clearly lacked any ability to build a proper team and both were medicore at best evaluating talent. Whats you're threshold 10, 15, 20, years maybe the legacy of the Clippers would that be enough losing at what point does the line need to the drawn that this the season that we win at all costs?

For some fans a few years sure if we were talking about FEW YEARS and not close to 10 years. Right now the talk is 2010 to get Lebron then when we miss out on him, the talk will be signing Chris Paul, then when we miss out on him the talk will be signing Brandon Roy and so on and so on.

TMS,

Stop being a baby would it make you feel better if I referred to you as "sir" and said "may I" when disagreeing with you get over yourself already lol. I question your logic on the Knick's direction NOT you personally and this isn's some kind of attack on you're character capiche.

[Edited by - bitty41 on 07-10-2008 09:41 AM]

if you would focus on addressing the issues rather than the one upping me with your digs you would have seen your questions being addressed already... you asked at what point do we draw the line where winning becomes imperative... the answer is 2010... that's not some arbitrary logic on the Knicks direction being made up by me or any other "wannabe know it all"... it's a date that has been clearly set forth by Donnie Walsh, a man who most of us pretty much can be confident is well aware of how to build a winning franchise... & that date was clearly pointed out in the original post & reiterated by V & a few others... also, the point has been reiterated time & again on these forums that Lebron is not the only target in 2010 & is not the end game of all this planning... he is the #1 goal obviously for any team looking for cap space in 2010 but there are other options available to us even if we lose out on the Lebron sweepstakes... why are you only focusing on Lebron everytime this issue gets brought up? i don't understand that... the point we're trying to make here is that this franchise needs to stay away from the Zach Randolph/Steve Francis/Jalen Rose type starphuch acquisitions that don't lead to any longterm future success... do you disagree w/that point or are you just arguing for the sake of arguing at this point?

[Edited by - TMS on 07-10-2008 07:32 AM]

Posted by martin:

Posted by bitty41:

TMS,

Stop being a baby would it make you feel better if I referred to you as "sir" and said "may I" when disagreeing with you get over yourself already lol. I question your logic on the Knick's direction NOT you personally and this isn's some kind of attack on you're character capiche.

Bitty, you are not addressing TMS's idea's but rather him. Maybe you should take some of your own advice? The getting over yourself part?

Why is everyone taking every thing so seriously? Everytime I respond to his posts im always given a dissertation on internet etiquette on how to respect others opinions.

I think you could give me a little more credit; if I wanted to insult him I could probably manage something a little more bitchy then saying his posts are tiresome.

Hey its no big deal if it will make TMS feel better. I apologize TMS for posting anything that you find personally insulting.

Don't know what part TMS is sensitive to but "As much as you like to view yourself as some kind of authority on all things salary cap and managing a professional team that really isn't my issue." is probably a little out of line too. That's addressing TMS, not his ideas.

LOLOL okay got it but seriously thats a pretty pathetic insult by me. Again TMS I apologize for poking fun at you.

Posted by djsunyc:

bitty, please take your ass back to the kitchen and get my dinner ready.

tms, please go back and finish cleaning my clothes.

can someone please send this douchebag back on vacation?