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Chris Duhon an improved Charlie Ward?
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Cosmic
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7/6/2008  12:35 PM
Posted by nixluva:
Posted by Cosmic:

He's not Charlie Ward and we don't need a stop gap. We're rebuilding the team.

What kind of a team wins 23 games and signs a "stop gap" 3rd string guard to start for them for 2 years during a rebuild when they already have Crawford, Nate, Collins who could fill the role of "we're going to stink anyone the next two years so who cares who really is starting in the big picture right now?"

????????????

The roster spot belongs to a SL standout, an NBDL standout, a walk-in player........ not a 3rd string guard being brought in the start at PG. We already have 3 other guys who could do that. While they did we could spend the next 14 months and the 09 draft looking for a REAL starting PG. Duhon isn't it and won't ever be it so why did we bother?

Entirely pointless.

1) Duhon can defend on the NBA level, which NONE of our PG's have shown
2) He's not a chucker, which is the case with Jamal, Nate and Steph. Collins can't shoot so that's a problem in itself
3) We need to establish the teams style of play for the benefit of the young players we do intend to keep. Duhon gives us the best chance of doing that. He'll run the plays as the coach prescribes and that is also something we haven't had.
4) His short contract doesn't inhibit our future plans.

1 - Duhon tries on defense but he's not a stopper. He's active, but, not a stopper. It's not an overwhelming quality.
2 - He's not a chucker, yes, but when dared to shoot wide open shots he still hits at about 30-something percent. Very poor.
3 - Do we even know he can run? What has he done the past few years? Walk it up, stop, toss it to a perimeter Bull player. We don't even know exactly what DAntoni's system will be here. This isn't Nash's Suns and Mike won't try to pretend it is.
4 - The ultimate justification: It's a short contract. It inhibts our present plans by using up a roster space that wasn't needing to be filled for this particular role. While we search for our actual PG of the future I think that Nate/Mardy/Crawford could handle running the point on a team going no where for a little bit of time, no?

It's not an epic problem, the duhon signing, it's just simply unneeded.
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BRIGGS
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7/6/2008  12:49 PM
I see this as a non-event. If Duhon shined just enough to be considred a good player for the team for the future[albeit this is highly questionable] IF we actually did get to FA we would have to renounce his rights anyway. This is a stop gap player but he comes at a high cost per year and what I dont like about it is the attempt to slightly improve??? when the team needs to purge 90% of the roster anyway---perhaps its about professionalsim and culture--although this kid is known for partying[which could get much worse in NY as anyone knows]--is this what they want to teach the young guys--to lead another guy out till 4am 4 days a week? in terms of basketball he really is just a medicore player. He does have a good assist to TO ratio and will give you a nice day on the defensive end--but these types of players are back ups on the Spurs the Mavs the Celtics and we have made it loud and clear that a back up PG is going to be our standard as a QB for the team. Charlie Ward was OK because the tem was deveoped in many other areas--this team--to really get benefit from a PG would need an adavcned skill player at that position. So unless they see something that 958 of the NBA doesnt[as in paying him 6mm per] it's really a nothing. You may pay a bit more for a hot dog if you are going to the games.
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Knicksfan
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7/6/2008  1:15 PM
You people can't be happy for anything. Its just ridiculous. This is a solid signing that helps us in the present and for the future will definitely help. We get a solid player, a point guard that actually passes the ball first, something none of our so-called point guards do. We get a young player to accept a contract that while its big, its for two years, and that's a risk for any player. After the two years we can keep him if he is the player we think he is now, and if he isn't we simply let him go and keep cap space for the real plan.

Its a win-win situation, but no, we have to criticize everything this team does, even if we finally have a plan and are definitely sticking up to it.

1. He isn't a star nor better than Marbury. - Yeah, like we were looking for that or had a chance to get one through the FA. Monta Ellis? He would've cost us too much in terms of years, which would've killed our plan and told us this management is as clueless about a plan as the last one. We needed a point guard to run McD's offense and since Marbs is a question mark, Nate isn't a pg and Collins wasn't even an option, we had to make this deal. It help us as a team, something you guys talked about during the season but seem to forget once we move into FA mode.

This was a solid deal that will lead to good things for the Knicks. Will it win us more games? Who knows, but we know we aren't trying to win the most games. This is a process, something NY fans say they are ready to go through but when it happens they prove they aren't...
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Anji
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7/6/2008  1:53 PM
Yeah I think the point isn't if Duhon is Ward or not. Because Ward was a pretty subpar point guard. The point is we lived with Ward because he played with Ewing, Houston, LJ, Spree, Camby, ect. And even had Childs as a back. This version of Ward doesn't have that kind of support, to allow him be a subpar point guard.
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SlimPack
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7/6/2008  2:47 PM
Posted by Cosmic:

He's not Charlie Ward and we don't need a stop gap. We're rebuilding the team.

What kind of a team wins 23 games and signs a "stop gap" 3rd string guard to start for them for 2 years during a rebuild when they already have Crawford, Nate, Collins who could fill the role of "we're going to stink anyone the next two years so who cares who really is starting in the big picture right now?"

????????????

The roster spot belongs to a SL standout, an NBDL standout, a walk-in player........ not a 3rd string guard being brought in the start at PG. We already have 3 other guys who could do that. While they did we could spend the next 14 months and the 09 draft looking for a REAL starting PG. Duhon isn't it and won't ever be it so why did we bother?

Entirely pointless.

I disagree that we already have all the help we need at the poing guard position. saying it's like the Jeffries signing is only true if Marbury will still be a Knick next year. in that case that only leaves Crawford, Nate, and Collins. Crawford in my mind, isn't a PG, and couldn't play at the point well consistently. and Collins may be out of the league soon. That really only leaves Nate. so it's not exactly as though the Knicks are stocked with good options at the point.

The reason this signing was done may be because the Knick don't want to be atrocious next year, but aren't going to spend significant resources in order to get better either.
Cosmic
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7/6/2008  5:14 PM
Posted by SlimPack:
Posted by Cosmic:

He's not Charlie Ward and we don't need a stop gap. We're rebuilding the team.

What kind of a team wins 23 games and signs a "stop gap" 3rd string guard to start for them for 2 years during a rebuild when they already have Crawford, Nate, Collins who could fill the role of "we're going to stink anyone the next two years so who cares who really is starting in the big picture right now?"

????????????

The roster spot belongs to a SL standout, an NBDL standout, a walk-in player........ not a 3rd string guard being brought in the start at PG. We already have 3 other guys who could do that. While they did we could spend the next 14 months and the 09 draft looking for a REAL starting PG. Duhon isn't it and won't ever be it so why did we bother?

Entirely pointless.

I disagree that we already have all the help we need at the poing guard position. saying it's like the Jeffries signing is only true if Marbury will still be a Knick next year. in that case that only leaves Crawford, Nate, and Collins. Crawford in my mind, isn't a PG, and couldn't play at the point well consistently. and Collins may be out of the league soon. That really only leaves Nate. so it's not exactly as though the Knicks are stocked with good options at the point.

The reason this signing was done may be because the Knick don't want to be atrocious next year, but aren't going to spend significant resources in order to get better either.

Given our current situation, the likelihood we won't be a good team for probably the next two years, given the amount of rebuilding that will likely take place: I do believe we have adequate options at the PG position while we take our time and search for the actual future starting PG of the team we one day hope to see built to compete.

As to not being atrocious next year...believe me... Duhon is only better than Collins and not by much. Duhon isn't going to ensure we don't stink. If we do buy out Marbury - even then - the only difference Duhon makes is maybe helping to win a couple of close games that we would otherwise have run completely out of manpower in and I'm probably being generous to even say Duhon can impact a game in a positive manner.
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Bippity10
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7/6/2008  5:34 PM
Andrew/Martin: If you have not done so already, please ban JohnWallace44 for this post. I am very angry right now.
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TrueBlue
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7/6/2008  7:04 PM
Another thread hyping up a move made by the organization more than necessary.
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fishmike
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7/6/2008  7:40 PM
I see this is as part of a culture change.

Duhon is a heady player and the Bulls got worse when they replaced him in the SL. He's a guy thats going to play hard and practice hard. He's going to do what the coach asks. He's going to hustle. He's 25.

We have a team of retards and goofballs. He's got less talent than Crawford or Nate, but gives the coach a good option if those guys arent getting it.

This team needs soldiers. To many scorers and shoot first players. Isiah wanted 5 guys on the floor that all needed the ball.
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BasketballJones
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7/6/2008  7:51 PM
I can't see this guy replacing Marbury. Does he have Truck? How's his Juice Card? Would he make a good Excape Goat?

We're gonna miss Marbury something awful when he's gone.

[Edited by - basketballjones on 07-06-2008 19:51]
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nyk4ever
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7/6/2008  8:00 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:

I can't see this guy replacing Marbury. Does he have Truck? How's his Juice Card? Would he make a good Excape Goat?

We're gonna miss Marbury something awful when he's gone.

[Edited by - basketballjones on 07-06-2008 19:51]

Most importantly, can Duhon see the spit on peoples mouths too?
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BasketballJones
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7/6/2008  8:05 PM
Posted by nyk4ever:
Posted by BasketballJones:

I can't see this guy replacing Marbury. Does he have Truck? How's his Juice Card? Would he make a good Excape Goat?

We're gonna miss Marbury something awful when he's gone.

[Edited by - basketballjones on 07-06-2008 19:51]

Most importantly, can Duhon see the spit on peoples mouths too?

How does Duhon feel about his sister?
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nyk4ever
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7/6/2008  8:08 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:


How does Duhon feel about his sister?

Another great question Jones. Will Duhon be liked so much by his coach the same way Isiah liked Marbury, so much so, as to give him a few extra days off right at the beginning of the season? It's going to be tough for Duhon to meet all of these expectations.
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TMS
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7/6/2008  9:02 PM
Posted by Knicksfan:

You people can't be happy for anything. Its just ridiculous. This is a solid signing that helps us in the present and for the future will definitely help. We get a solid player, a point guard that actually passes the ball first, something none of our so-called point guards do. We get a young player to accept a contract that while its big, its for two years, and that's a risk for any player. After the two years we can keep him if he is the player we think he is now, and if he isn't we simply let him go and keep cap space for the real plan.

Its a win-win situation, but no, we have to criticize everything this team does, even if we finally have a plan and are definitely sticking up to it.

1. He isn't a star nor better than Marbury. - Yeah, like we were looking for that or had a chance to get one through the FA. Monta Ellis? He would've cost us too much in terms of years, which would've killed our plan and told us this management is as clueless about a plan as the last one. We needed a point guard to run McD's offense and since Marbs is a question mark, Nate isn't a pg and Collins wasn't even an option, we had to make this deal. It help us as a team, something you guys talked about during the season but seem to forget once we move into FA mode.

This was a solid deal that will lead to good things for the Knicks. Will it win us more games? Who knows, but we know we aren't trying to win the most games. This is a process, something NY fans say they are ready to go through but when it happens they prove they aren't...

thank you for bringing some sanity to these discussions.
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TMS
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7/6/2008  9:04 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:

Another thread hyping up a move made by the organization more than necessary.

i think we should start numbering these threads for easier reference later... maybe make a new thread w/the links for all the Duhon threads... how awesome would that be.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
technomaster
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7/6/2008  11:11 PM
Well, we know what Duhon's done in the past with the Bulls - he looked like a journeyman fringe starter, though the team clearly played better when he was part of the mix rather than when Hinrich was the main PG. Does he have untapped upside? Scott Skiles's system wasn't known for much flexibility. Under D'Antoni and starter minutes (assuming no Marbury), what is he capable of?

12ppg / 7apg / 3rpg / 40%3pt / 2spg?


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TMS
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7/6/2008  11:16 PM
just getting rid of Marbury's distraction is a huge plus.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
TMS
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7/6/2008  11:17 PM
Posted by Bippity10:

Andrew/Martin: If you have not done so already, please ban JohnWallace44 for this post. I am very angry right now.

i'm scared to think what u'll do if they give Duhon Charlie's #21.
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
nyk4ever
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7/6/2008  11:18 PM
Posted by TMS:
Posted by Bippity10:

Andrew/Martin: If you have not done so already, please ban JohnWallace44 for this post. I am very angry right now.

i'm scared to think what u'll do if they give Duhon Charlie's #21.

Is the Mayor not running for re-election?
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EwingsGlass
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7/6/2008  11:37 PM
Alls I know is that Duhon is gonna average like 6 assists and 4 dimes... and that's factorial. Just ask his better ho.

Just a thought, what happened to the Stephon Marbury that had a 280 games played streak, or the one that averaged 20-8. Before he started getting distracted off the court, he really had some admirable qualities (even for a me-first shooter-type pg). I think on a moving forward basis, he is better off being robin rather batman. It seems clear that he needs a fresh start and New York wants to be rid of him, but if another team gives him a chance to be the number two or three guy, rather than the spotlight, he might be ok. SOmeone else mentioned the super-sub role (a la Nick Van Exel), which could resurrect his career if he has the mental stability to step out of the spotlight. It is clear that all of the off the court issues messed with his head, which was fragile to begin with.
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Chris Duhon an improved Charlie Ward?

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