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Is Duhon the messiah?
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nyk4ever
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7/6/2008  1:20 AM
Cosmic, I don't get why you are making such a big deal about this.

The most important part was that Walsh was cognizant of the fact that he he didn't want to give a contract out longer than 2 years and to do that, he had to pump up the total dollar amount a little bit.

We all know Duhon isn't a superstar, but he's already the best PG on this roster and I got no problem giving him a shot under D'Antoni. 2 years 12 million. Who cares.
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EnySpree
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7/6/2008  7:29 AM
This thread was meant to bring a blasphemous laugh.....all we got here is more caca talk.
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Cosmic
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7/6/2008  9:03 AM
Posted by nyk4ever:

Cosmic, I don't get why you are making such a big deal about this.

The most important part was that Walsh was cognizant of the fact that he he didn't want to give a contract out longer than 2 years and to do that, he had to pump up the total dollar amount a little bit.

We all know Duhon isn't a superstar, but he's already the best PG on this roster and I got no problem giving him a shot under D'Antoni. 2 years 12 million. Who cares.


The big deal seems to be the overly optimistic approach to Chris Duhon and what he's going to bring.

We already have his role filled. He's simply not a good player. He doesn't even deserve to start on a bad team and he's a 3rd stringer DNP on a good team. Yet we gave him a 2 year deal to do nothing but take up a roster space from players that are better than him and already here.

There was absolutely no reason to fill this role right now ad ZERO reason to give it to Chris Duhon.

That's why.

Simple question: Would you rather have Nate Robinson give the point a try in a season we're definitely going NOWHERE in...or would you rather sign yet _another_ mediocre player and shove him into that spot while putting Nate on the bench despite him being a much more solid player?


Second question: Did you view the Jared Jeffries signing as a great signing that fills a much needed role that we don't have or did you look at it and say... why? Why sign a guy to fill a role that 3 other players already here fill and do a better job at it?

'cause it's the same thing.

The money is stupid but it's also meaningless. The completely unneeded role that we just filled with a pretty bad player is what's important here.

Entirely meaningless and unnecessary signing.

The fact that it's being hailed as a great pick up is absolutely baffling.

Nate > Duhon
Crawford > Duhon
Walker Russel JR. > Duhon
Collins + RCH > Duhon
Other random NBDL or SL bubble player > Duhon
Someone on this forum + conditioning program > Duhon

But... OOOOooOOOOooooOOooo 4:1 A/to and "defense"!

Yeah, okay... Zach 23/10 and Jeffries "defense". Got us where? No where. Why? They stink. Duhon stinks AND we have players already here under contract who are better than him and take up all those minutes already.

Unneeded role to fill
Unneeded signing
Crappy player.


That's why it's a big deal because it was downright needless just like Jeffries but probably worse.
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Cosmic
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7/6/2008  9:05 AM
Posted by EnySpree:

This thread was meant to bring a blasphemous laugh.....all we got here is more caca talk.

Don't you mean dudu?

Fret not Eny, the Blasphemy is taking place in the Duhon > Ward and Childs thread. *runs*
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JohnWallace44
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7/6/2008  9:54 AM
from RealGM
Since I was in person for Chris Duhon’s best game of 07-08 at Golden State when he scored 34 points and dished nine assists in a 114-108 win without Luol Deng, Ben Gordon and Kirk Hinrich, there is a chance that I might like the signing more than I should.

So here are the key questions:

Did the Knicks overpay for Duhon?

Yes.

Are their hands tied signing a shotblocker because of the full use of the MLE?

Yes.

Will Duhon account for more wins in 08-09?

Perhaps a handful (meaning four or less).

Is this a good signing?

Yes and for three reasons.

1. It is only a two-year deal

The Knicks have been accustomed to needlessly offering five-year contracts to MLE players such as Jerome James and Jared Jeffries.

They have bid against themselves and while these MLE deals are a small drop in the bucket when you have a bloated $90 million payroll, they are symbolic backbreakers of uselessness.

Good teams utilize the MLE for role players that will enhance the core, not to attempt to window dress a below average player as a free agent splash.

Duhon will make more over the next two seasons than he probably will over his final four or five in the NBA, but their refusal to deviate off their course by offering a third year showed some much needed restraint.

2. He is a legitimate point guard who can play D’Antoni’s style

Out of the top-50 point guards last season, Duhon ranked 43rd in FIC40 with a 10.2, which puts him decidedly in the average strata.

Travis Diener, Chris Quinn, Carlos Arroyo and Anthony Johnson were all more productive on a per minute basis.

But Duhon was sixth in the NBA in assists/turnovers with 3.70 and the reason for the low FIC40 score is largely due to how infrequently he shoots and his low field goal percentage of 39%.

The Knicks haven’t had a classic ‘shoot last’ point guard since Howard Eisley, who Duhon essentially is. Eisley was the stopgap until they were able to acquire Stephon Marbury and Duhon will be that same stopgap until they decide what happens with their cap space.

He is a facilitator who initiates good ball movement in the halfcourt, penetrates well and is a committed defender. I thought the Bulls were frequently better as a team when Duhon was on the floor rather than Kirk Hinrich. Being conservative, the Knicks are getting 75% of Hinrich at half the price.

3. No current players were sacrificed

There had been Raymond Felton talk, but he probably would have cost New York David Lee and the difference between Felton and Duhon is nominal. Felton had an 11.3 FIC40 and the Bobcats, not exactly the highest standard bearers of excellence, have given up on the notion of him being a point guard.

Duhon is nothing if he isn’t a point guard and Lee can stick around to fit in somehow or be dealt for a more valuable commodity than a below average starting point.

Grade for Knicks: B+

For Duhon, he is given an opportunity to start in a city that typically is high-pressured but will have incredibly modest expectations. The point guard position has been a disaster for New York over the past few years for a myriad of reasons and Duhon should quickly thrive in the system and endear himself to the MSG crowd.

He also will reenter the open market on the right side of 30, which could allow him to parlay a nice Knicks’ turnaround into one final long-term deal.

Grade for Duhon: A

[Edited by - johnwallace44 on 07-06-2008 09:56 AM]
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
EnySpree
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7/6/2008  10:01 AM
Thanks johnwallace44......I been trying to post that realgm article for 20mins.
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Cosmic
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7/6/2008  10:05 AM
1. It is only a two-year deal

So if we re-signed Ewing to a two year deal would it be good because it's only for 2 years? What about Wilt's corpse? This is how we justify a signing now?

2. He is a legitimate point guard who can play D’Antoni’s style

First off whatever DAntoni's style is, it's not purely steve nash run phoenix suns, it's going to be different (because it has to given the roster) and nobody knows if Duhon can play that way - ANYWAY - given that he's played in Chicago's plod up the court and hand it to a guard type offense. So that entire statement is mere opinion not fact. Besides, what's a legit PG these days? A flaming bag of dog poop that can dribble?
3. No current players were sacrificed

Untrue. Nate and Crawford(as much as I want him gone) are both better options despite neither being a true PG or SG. They're already here. They're better players. Why reduce their roles for a worse player? Why add a player to fill a role that's already filled by BETTER players???

It also sacrificed the chance to add a player we might actually need - if one became available down the line - be it at any position or role.

*******************************

.....it's sad the attempt to justify this signing. It's like people are trying to convince themselves it was a good idea.

It was needles in many ways.
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nyk4ever
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7/6/2008  12:03 PM
Posted by Cosmic:


The big deal seems to be the overly optimistic approach to Chris Duhon and what he's going to bring.

We already have his role filled. He's simply not a good player. He doesn't even deserve to start on a bad team and he's a 3rd stringer DNP on a good team. Yet we gave him a 2 year deal to do nothing but take up a roster space from players that are better than him and already here.

There was absolutely no reason to fill this role right now ad ZERO reason to give it to Chris Duhon.

That's why.

Simple question: Would you rather have Nate Robinson give the point a try in a season we're definitely going NOWHERE in...or would you rather sign yet _another_ mediocre player and shove him into that spot while putting Nate on the bench despite him being a much more solid player?


Second question: Did you view the Jared Jeffries signing as a great signing that fills a much needed role that we don't have or did you look at it and say... why? Why sign a guy to fill a role that 3 other players already here fill and do a better job at it?

'cause it's the same thing.

The money is stupid but it's also meaningless. The completely unneeded role that we just filled with a pretty bad player is what's important here.

Entirely meaningless and unnecessary signing.

The fact that it's being hailed as a great pick up is absolutely baffling.

Nate > Duhon
Crawford > Duhon
Walker Russel JR. > Duhon
Collins + RCH > Duhon
Other random NBDL or SL bubble player > Duhon
Someone on this forum + conditioning program > Duhon

But... OOOOooOOOOooooOOooo 4:1 A/to and "defense"!

Yeah, okay... Zach 23/10 and Jeffries "defense". Got us where? No where. Why? They stink. Duhon stinks AND we have players already here under contract who are better than him and take up all those minutes already.

Unneeded role to fill
Unneeded signing
Crappy player.


That's why it's a big deal because it was downright needless just like Jeffries but probably worse.

Cosmic, I don't think our opinions are that off, but I will say..

We don't have 1 pg on this team. I know some view Nate as a viable option at the PG position, I don't. On his best day, he is a gunner who can score points in bunches. Mardy just plain sucks and Crawford isn't a PG either. So this is why I don't see the big deal in signing Duhon. He is not a bad player, nor is he really any good, but we do have a coach here who knows PG's as well as any coach in this league, if he thinks he can get something out of Duhon then a modest 2 yr contract isn't even close to ridiculous. Yes it is a risk, but it is low-risk. This is what good GM's do, they find the diamonds in the rough. We now have our first player to judge Donnie on.

You can't overate defense and you also can't expect if your team has only one defensive player for that to matter, you just have to hope it rubs off on everyone else. With the psycho's that were on this team the past 2 years, it doesn't surprise that Jeffries effort and defensive play didn't wear off on anyone else, but you also can't sign Jeffries and then go out and get Zach Randolph. Those moves totally counteract each other. We've been a sieve from guard defensive play and that has hampered many of our defensive sets, Duhon is known to be a pretty decent defensive player, so we'll see if he can fix our problem uptop, if not, its a 2 year deal.

And yes, I did view the Jeffries signing as a good signing, I was and still am a big believer of his, although he's proving me to look quite wrong. I just know I saw a completely different player when he played at IU, so I'm not sure what his deal, but either way, yes I did view the Jeffries signing as a good signing.

Either way, I just don't understand how a 2yr deal for a player who has a solid background with a coach who knows PG's as well as he does is a bad signing. I mean honestly, it really doesnt matter.
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Cosmic
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7/6/2008  12:15 PM
My think is this, K4E, we should target the 09/10 season as the first year we should have a solid team. In that, we have 14 months time and the 09 draft to look for a PG of the future.

So, in the mean time, let Nate or Craw or Collins run the point, we know we're not going anywhere anyway, so let them run it, they're already here, maybe Craw has a good year and becomes more favorable for trade, and then in 14 months expect to have your starting PG.

There's no need to sign Duhon to do just about the same thing... run the point for 2 years then go away because he's not good and by then we'll have a true PG replacement.

It's just unneeded. I'd rather spend such a roster spot on a SL or NBDL or walk-in player. It'd be better served.

We already had Duhon's role covered. Run the point poorly for 2 years while we search for a true replacement.

Nate or Collins or Craw couldn't do that? Well, Collins might not be able to do anything but I'm just trying to make a point here.
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loweyecue
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7/6/2008  12:44 PM
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by Cosmic:

For those who missed Shandon "his stats arent bad and he plays defense" Anderson and how much fun it was to crap all over him when things went bad because despite acceptable stats and an acceptable role he was still an absolutely terrible basketball player.... yes, Duhon is their messiah!

I kinda miss Contracterson and I'm tired of screaming blindly at my TV set as I watch Crawful destroy everything basketball is supposed to be about so I welcome Don't-hon to the Knicks.

You mean Donthoff.

At any rate, we now have a knickname for Duhon.
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Cosmic
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7/6/2008  12:53 PM
Posted by loweyecue:
Posted by BasketballJones:
Posted by Cosmic:

For those who missed Shandon "his stats arent bad and he plays defense" Anderson and how much fun it was to crap all over him when things went bad because despite acceptable stats and an acceptable role he was still an absolutely terrible basketball player.... yes, Duhon is their messiah!

I kinda miss Contracterson and I'm tired of screaming blindly at my TV set as I watch Crawful destroy everything basketball is supposed to be about so I welcome Don't-hon to the Knicks.

You mean Donthoff.

At any rate, we now have a knickname for Duhon.

Yes, and this will be vital for unleashing our frustrations on someone, anyone... as the most likely poor season unfolds.

Yet, I kinda have come to like a new one I'm using: Drunkhon.
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loweyecue
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7/6/2008  12:55 PM
Think about the high basket ball IQ as indicated by having the "Duh"-On.
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Knicksfan
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7/6/2008  1:24 PM
You guys are poison...
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TMS
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7/6/2008  8:35 PM
Posted by Cosmic:
Posted by TMS:

what do we need w/a PG making reasonable dollars w/a career 4-1 a/to ratio, plays defense & can knock down an open J? we have so many of those types of players on our roster already.

Reasonable dollars? Come'on he's a 3rd stringer on an okay team and we just gave him the MLE.

4-1 A/To? Wonderful. Zach is a 23/10 player, Marbury is 20/8, and Crawful has a Crawsover. There's more to a player than individual stats.

Plays Defense? Well, he at least tries hard, so can't fault that. He's no stopper though don't kid yourself.

Knocks down the Open J? He shoots in the 30s...


.

I don't understand where all these overinflated opinions on Duhon are coming from. I must have the wrong Chris Duhon in mind. Cause the one I DO have in mind is somewhere between nothing of value and total garbage.

36% career from 3 pt range isn't horrible... when i say he can knock down the open J, it doesn't necessarily mean he shoots for a high average btw, just so we get that straight...

not sure where my overinflations of the guy are here... we signed a guy to a 2 year deal at MLE dollars... what did u guys expect to get out of that type of investment? you think Baron Davis woulda agreed to sign here for that money? come on, wake up to reality... he's a stopgap solution & no one is expecting him to be a star, yet those of you complaining about this signing seem to think anything less is unacceptable.
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DJMUSIC
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7/6/2008  8:42 PM
I love these pics !
lol

Hey TMS bud how are ya man ?

I dont know if Duhon is a messiah judging from them pics he may be the next Charlie Ward or Derrick Harper with few skills.

I dont think I mind that since Harper and Ward's Knicks won alot of games here in NBA way back then.

Starbury cannot claim that. It ain't all stephon's fault but he needs to get out of here.
I'd rather Marbury go to some other team and if he had to come to Garden and beat our boyz 2-4
times in season so what ?

That is better than the 20-25 games he'll help us lose if he stayed a Knick.
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DarkKnicks
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7/6/2008  8:45 PM
Posted by Cosmic:
1. It is only a two-year deal

So if we re-signed Ewing to a two year deal would it be good because it's only for 2 years? What about Wilt's corpse? This is how we justify a signing now?
LMFAO!!!!!
TMS
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7/6/2008  9:23 PM
DJMUSIC, a wah ya know... yuh noh dead yet me brudda.

good to see u here... i dunno what to expect outta Duhon but on what he was signed to i have a hard time finding the reasons for complaints... consider the fact we signed some scrubs like Jefferies & Turd James in the past to the full MLE & i have a feeling Duhon's gonna make a much more significant contribution than either 1 of those guys... of course, we did miss out on signing Chris Paul to the MLE, but hey, u can't win them all.

[Edited by - TMS on 07-06-2008 6:25 PM]
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