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If we swap with Seattle
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Ira
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6/21/2008  4:23 PM
That's a tough question for me. After Beasely and Rose, those are the two I like best. Love will have the better rookie year. His basketball pedigree shows. He plays like a pro. But I love Bayless's ability to score and he can play the point. I'd be tempted to draft Rose and, if we didn't have to include Lee to move up, I'd try to trade Lee to a team with an early enough pick to get Westbrook or Gordon. Or maybe move Lee to the Nets for both of their picks and come away with Augustin and someone who gives value at 21 like Hardin or Foster.

[Edited by - ira on 06-21-2008 7:54 PM]
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Vmart
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6/21/2008  4:39 PM
I'll go with Bayless. This team needs new direction and Bayless can provide that. Love is an ok player why would you add another pf or undersized center that won't do much for the interior defense. Besides I wouldn't trade with Seattle because the target should Mayo or Beasley or bust for the Knicks. That is why I make a deal with T-wolves and push hard with expiring deals to get the deal done.

CrushAlot
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6/21/2008  4:59 PM
I think Joe Alexander would be a good fit if the Knicks are looking for a power forward to play in D'Antoni's system. I also have read that scouts feel like Westbrook down the rode will be a major star. I would be fine with either of these guys. I worry a little about Bayless and I don't think he will be available anyway. Love maybe on the board but I am not convinced that he is a better choice than Alexander.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
CrushAlot
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6/21/2008  5:02 PM
I think I missed the title of the post, If we swap with Seattle. However, I am not sure that it is worth it to swap if you don't get into the top three. I also think a trade with Nets for 10 and 21 should be explored.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
JohnWallace44
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6/21/2008  5:44 PM
You can't trade Lee for the 10 and the 21. Maybe the 10 and a 2nd rounder.
Alan Hahn: Nate Robinson has been on a ridonkulous scoring tear lately (remember when he couldn't hit Jerome James with a Big Mac in early January?)
CrushAlot
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6/21/2008  6:30 PM
I was talking about trading the 6th pick for the 10 and 21. This is a trade that I was speculated about when Kiki came out and said they were looking at all options. Lee was never mentioned when this was written about.
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BRIGGS
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6/21/2008  8:00 PM
I just believe with our shaky frontcourt and with what I watched with my own two eyes in the Finals---that getting a premium big man prospect is the way to go.

The Celtics did not need to spend anything more than a 21 pick on their PG and if you are not getting Rose or Mayo that the big man is the way to go to compete.

If there is one thing we know Curry and Randolph cannopt co-exsist and Curry himself has a lot of questions coming back as a 300 pound person with a knee injury.

We got beat up at the basket ourselves. D Lee is a good player but for his 10 points he gives up 15. Either Lopez or Love if we do not want a prospect that will take time.
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Finestrg
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6/21/2008  9:42 PM
Wow, Briggs you're all over the map here my man. Yesterday you were convinced Bayless will be the pick, the day before you wanted Brook Lopez, now today you think we should get Kevin Love?!?! Which is it my dude? HAHA!!! I love the passion though and the case you make for each player is sound so I'm only breakin' your shoes...

But when it comes to my man Bayless, I'm as serious as cancer. To answer the question here I take Jerryd Bayless w/o any hesitation at all - whether we move up (which I would absolutely do to get him) or if he somehow slips to us at 6 (though highly unlikely). I haven't wavered off Bayless as my target for weeks and I'm not about to start now. I really don't agree with the arguments against acquiring Bayless to be honest. First, you're talking about wanting an "impact player" - all I can say is that along with Beasley, OJ Mayo and Derrick Rose, Bayless rounds out the "impact" top-tier guys in my opinion. These top 4 guys are in a class by themselves if you ask me. With 30 mins. of PT right out of the gate this kid goes for 20 a night. No doubt about it. And tell me, that's not impact??? He probably won't get that with the Knicks right away, not with Marbury in his final year at huge money, along with Craw, Nate and Collins already in place. So he might have to wait his turn in year one a little. But make no mistake about it, he's the right guy for us. Look Marbury's gone - either he finishes out the year and moves on or he's bought out somewhere along the way. Craw's not a PG but an adequate enough scoring threat at the 2 which is why I pass on Mayo and Gordon (no question in my mind Bayless will be a better lead guard than Jamal Crawford though - come on now), neither is Nate really and Mardy, though more useful than a lot of people realize and give him credit for, is still a reserve. When the dust settles (hopefully year 2 if not sooner), I want Bayless as my lead guard out there for me at 35 mins. a night - at that amount of minutes he goes for over 20 a night easily - while the other parts of his game people question (driving left, passing and setting up others) will come with experience. Come on Briggs, we've talked about this - he's gonna give you close to what Tony Parker give the Spurs: deluxe scoring first and foremost (which is fine with me because he's a superb scorer and shooter) while also possessing enough ability & desire to run a team effectively. And for the next 12+ seasons that's good enough for me. Who cares if he's not that #1 guy to build around like a Timmy Duncan or a Michael Beasley - those guys are so rare not to mention it takes a tremendous amount of luck to win the lottery in the NBA. Bayless would make for one hell of a cog on any team, I can tell you that. Why can't you build around an ultra-young lead guard that'll give you 20 a game in his sleep along with ever-improving leadership and court sense? I know I can build my team around that. The short arms thing is hysterical btw. WTF is that about? You make him out to be some kind of cirus midget or dwarf out there. He's 6'3", very quick and very athletic - all the tools necessary to be an above average NBA defender at the PG spot.


[Edited by - finestrg on 06-21-2008 9:58 PM]
BRIGGS
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6/21/2008  10:06 PM
Posted by Finestrg:

. Yesterday you were convinced Bayless will be the pick, the day before you wanted Brook Lopez, now today you think we should get Kevin Love?!?! Which is it my dude? HAHA!!! I love the passion though and the case you make for each player is sound so I'm only breakin' your shoes...

But when it comes to my man Bayless, I'm as serious as cancer. To answer the question here I take Jerryd Bayless w/o any hesitation at all - whether we move up (which I would absolutely do to get him) or if he somehow slips to us at 6 (though highly unlikely). I haven't wavered off Bayless as my target for weeks and I'm not about to start now. I really don't agree with the arguments against acquiring Bayless to be honest. First, you're talking about wanting an "impact player" - all I can say is that along with Beasley, OJ Mayo and Derrick Rose, Bayless rounds out the "impact" top-tier guys in my opinion. These top 4 guys are in a class by themselves if you ask me. With 30 mins. of PT right out of the gate this kid goes for 20 a night. No doubt about it. And tell me, that's not impact??? He probably won't get that with the Knicks right away, not with Marbury in his final year at huge money, along with Craw, Nate and Collins already in place. So he might have to wait his turn in year one a little. But make no mistake about it, he's the right guy for us. Look Marbury's gone - either he finishes out the year and moves on or he's bought out somewhere along the way. Craw's not a PG but an adequate enough scoring threat at the 2 which is why I pass on Mayo and Gordon (no question in my mind Bayless will be a better lead guard than Jamal Crawford though - come on now), neither is Nate really and Mardy, though more useful than a lot of people realize and give him credit for, is still a reserve. When the dust settles (hopefully year 2 if not sooner), I want Bayless as my lead guard out there for me at 35 mins. a night - at that amount of minutes he goes for over 20 a night easily - while the other parts of his game people question (driving left, passing and setting up others) will come with experience. Come on Briggs, we've talked about this - he's gonna give you close to what Tony Parker give the Spurs: deluxe scoring first and foremost (which is fine with me because he's a superb scorer and shooter) while also possessing enough ability & desire to run a team effectively. And for the next 12+ seasons that's good enough for me. Who cares if he's not that #1 guy to build around like a Timmy Duncan or a Michael Beasley - those guys are so rare not to mention it takes a tremendous amount of luck to win the lottery in the NBA. Bayless would make for one hell of a cog on any team, I can tell you that. Why can't you build around an ultra-young lead guard that'll give you 20 a game in his sleep along with ever-improving leadership and court sense? I know I can build my team around that. The short arms thing is hysterical btw. WTF is that about? You make him out to be some kind of cirus midget or dwarf out there. He's 6'3", very quick and very athletic - all the tools necessary to be an above average NBA defender at the PG spot.


[Edited by - finestrg on 06-21-2008 9:58 PM]

Wow, Briggs you're all over the map here my man


You're right about that. I'm confused with the organization and the direction. We have an uptempo coach used to winning 60 games with big time talent and a roster that looks nothing like Pheonix and a 68 year old GM. Then you watch Boston maul teams with their frontline and everyone wants to get rid of our entire frontline. Well I would like to hear the replacement parts upfront! Guess what--you will NEVEr EVER EVER win big in the NBA without a solid big frontline. Never happened in the history of bsketball. People want to replace 6-9 players with 6-3 players.

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 06-21-2008 10:10 PM]

[Edited by - BRIGGS on 06-21-2008 10:12 PM]
RIP Crushalot😞
CrushAlot
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6/21/2008  10:37 PM
I agree. I am not sure why a coach was hired who played with Boris Diaw as his center. I also am not sure why Thibs never even got an interview with the Knicks. I am not sure why the Knicks hired a guy who became upset with his former team when they wanted him to coach defense. I am not sure why the new era in NYK basketball started with a typical move from the previous era, outbidding the competition for a big name that doesn't fit. I am not sure that Walsh has the autonomy that he claims to have in regards to basketball decisions. I am not sure why Herb is still with the Knicks. I am not sure why a coach with a reported very thin skin was signed to coach in the media capitol of the world. I am not sure why Isiah Thomas is still employed by the Knicks. I am not sure that the new coach will last one season in NY. I am not sure that there is any global thought being given to any basketball decisions that are being made. I am not sure that Isiah Thomas doesn't have Dolan's ear and is influencing basketball decisions. I am not sure why the new management team hasn't tried to make a clean break from everything that created the embarassment that the Knicks franchise has become. I am not sure why a guy who runs his team by having short practices and 'expecting his players to be professionals' was hired to coach a bunch of knuckle heads.
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BRIGGS
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6/21/2008  10:44 PM
Posted by CrushAlot:

I agree. I am not sure why a coach was hired who played with Boris Diaw as his center. I also am not sure why Thibs never even got an interview with the Knicks. I am not sure why the Knicks hired a guy who became upset with his former team when they wanted him to coach defense. I am not sure why the new era in NYK basketball started with a typical move from the previous era, outbidding the competition for a big name that doesn't fit. I am not sure that Walsh has the autonomy that he claims to have in regards to basketball decisions. I am not sure why Herb is still with the Knicks. I am not sure why a coach with a reported very thin skin was signed to coach in the media capitol of the world. I am not sure why Isiah Thomas is still employed by the Knicks. I am not sure that the new coach will last one season in NY. I am not sure that there is any global thought being given to any basketball decisions that are being made. I am not sure that Isiah Thomas doesn't have Dolan's ear and is influencing basketball decisions. I am not sure why the new management team hasn't tried to make a clean break from everything that created the embarassment that the Knicks franchise has become. I am not sure why a guy who runs his team by having short practices and 'expecting his players to be professionals' was hired to coach a bunch of knuckle heads.

I have rarely read that Walsh was at any of these workouts. Dantoni is there.
RIP Crushalot😞
codeunknown
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6/21/2008  11:57 PM
I think if we swap with Seattle, we've already screwed up. I'd take Westbrook over Bayless. Whether at 4 or 6.

The swapping needs to start at 3.
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Uptown
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6/22/2008  12:32 AM
Posted by CrushAlot:

I agree. I am not sure why a coach was hired who played with Boris Diaw as his center. I also am not sure why Thibs never even got an interview with the Knicks. I am not sure why the Knicks hired a guy who became upset with his former team when they wanted him to coach defense. I am not sure why the new era in NYK basketball started with a typical move from the previous era, outbidding the competition for a big name that doesn't fit. I am not sure that Walsh has the autonomy that he claims to have in regards to basketball decisions. I am not sure why Herb is still with the Knicks. I am not sure why a coach with a reported very thin skin was signed to coach in the media capitol of the world. I am not sure why Isiah Thomas is still employed by the Knicks. I am not sure that the new coach will last one season in NY. I am not sure that there is any global thought being given to any basketball decisions that are being made. I am not sure that Isiah Thomas doesn't have Dolan's ear and is influencing basketball decisions. I am not sure why the new management team hasn't tried to make a clean break from everything that created the embarassment that the Knicks franchise has become. I am not sure why a guy who runs his team by having short practices and 'expecting his players to be professionals' was hired to coach a bunch of knuckle heads.

Yeah, why would a man in Walsh, who has more basketball experience than most of us have been alive hire a guy who averaged 58 wins over the last 4 years and went to the western conference finals with Diaw at center (whil missing his best interior player). The nerve of Walsh to hire a proven winner. Doesn't he know we have been mired in turmoil and unprofessionalism over the last four years. How dare Walsh hire a guy who is as professional as they come. A guy who is a great talent eveluator and is known for getting the most out of his players and turning allstars into MVP's and players buried on the bench into very good players who are being coveted by other teams. Bring back Isiah
CrushAlot
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6/22/2008  12:47 AM
You are right. Why would every beat writer in NY question this move? Why would every national analyst question this move? Why would everyone who has been asked about it say that they thought Mike D should have gone to chicago? Why should anyone think that the way to win in the east is through defense? Mike D' is going to provide the Knicks with the short path to being the Lakers of 24 years ago minus a shot blocker and defense. He is going to grow a tough skin in the process and his team of knuckle heads are going to become high character guys over the summmer and they won't even need to practice for more than 40 minutes max. I apologize for questioning this hire.
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Uptown
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6/22/2008  1:00 AM
So every beat writer in NY questioned this move? I'll go back and check but from what I remember, there were more than a few writers who endorsed this move. But that is niether here nor there.

Anyway, you are overexaggerating. Look, you dont win 58+ games pre year without playing some D. You don't win on the road without playing some D. You dont advance to the western conference finals 2 times without playing some D. His teams are always ranked at least top 3 offensively every year. Dont recall ever seeing a team ever rank #1 in offense and #1 in defense in the same year. it doesn't happened. The Suns play at a pace that allows for more possessions per game, so the oppositions scores more, yet, if you check the stats, they dont allow the opposition to shoot at very high percentages. The Suns were ranked, I believe 12th in defense out of 30 teams. Not a bad % for a running team.

The idea that Mike D's teams dont play D is way overstated.



[Edited by - uptown on 06-22-2008 01:01 AM]
CrushAlot
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6/22/2008  1:11 AM
You are right. Marc Berman endorsed it.
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Uptown
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6/22/2008  1:26 AM
Posted by CrushAlot:

You are right. Marc Berman endorsed it.

As did Chad Ford, Howard Beck, Lupica.....I'm sure there were plenty more, thats just off the top of my head.
CrushAlot
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6/22/2008  1:55 AM
Here is Lupica's endoresment of D'Antoni. FYI the entire article questions the move. I am not a fan of Ford's and generally consider him fos and a day late and a dollar short.

The Knicks have so far to go because of the stiff team Thomas assembled. It has been such a long time since they really mattered. D'Antoni is a long way from Nash and a long way from Phoenix. An offensive coach comes to the place where they have always chanted about dee-fense. Don't worry that he's not a perfect fit, there isn't one for the Knicks
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Finestrg
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6/22/2008  8:42 AM
Posted by codeunknown:

I think if we swap with Seattle, we've already screwed up. I'd take Westbrook over Bayless. Whether at 4 or 6.

The swapping needs to start at 3.

Explain why Code.... Who do you want at 3, Mayo? And tell us why Westbrook's better than Bayless too, I'm curious....
If we swap with Seattle

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