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crzymdups
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6/19/2008  12:02 PM
okay, well here is every guard (not including hybrids and g/fs) taken in the top 7 in the last ten years, since the 98 draft:

Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Devin Harris, Ben Gordon, Ray Felton, Bradnon Roy, Dwyane Wade, Mike Conley, Kirk Hinrich, Jay Williams, Dejuan Wagner, Jason Richardson, Steve Francis, Baron Davis, Rip Hamilton, Mike Bibby, Jason Williams.

that's 8 all-star level players: Paul, Deron, Roy, Wade, Baron, Francis, Hamilton, Bibby
a bunch of capable starters: Harris, Felton, Hinrich, Richardson, Jason Williams, Ben Gordon
jury is out on: Conley
one major injury: jay williams
one indisputable bust: Wagner

the drafts people think of as bust drafts, like 2000, had very few guards go up top. the draft people thinking of as having good value had lots of guards. this is a guard heavy draft. it will most likely have very good value. guard game from college to nba transfers better than the big man game. it's easier to predict what a guy will do.

big guys are so much harder to predict - of course, they're more often the bigger difference makers.

the top of this draft is heavy in guards, hopefully we can get one of the good ones.
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fishmike
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6/19/2008  12:15 PM
Posted by crzymdups:

Alexander is going to be good. he minds of Granger in some ways.
I think he plays with a bigger chip on his shoulder than DG. I have yet to be called by Walsh for advice but right now this is the guy I am taking. I have a feeling he might be gone though..

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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6/19/2008  12:28 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by crzymdups:

Alexander is going to be good. he minds of Granger in some ways.
I think he plays with a bigger chip on his shoulder than DG. I have yet to be called by Walsh for advice but right now this is the guy I am taking. I have a feeling he might be gone though..

he'd be gone at 6?!?!?!? that'd be interesting.
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nyk4ever
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6/19/2008  12:33 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by crzymdups:

Alexander is going to be good. he minds of Granger in some ways.
I think he plays with a bigger chip on his shoulder than DG. I have yet to be called by Walsh for advice but right now this is the guy I am taking. I have a feeling he might be gone though..

I really like Alexander, although I want Westbrook a tad more. I definitely think we should be looking to acquire another pick to take Alexander, the dude plays with a serious chip on his shoulder.
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
playa2
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6/19/2008  12:46 PM
Look at the 2006 draft, nothing is guaranteed to be a real good player 1-6.

We have to go big at 6 , you can always nget a guard just look at lower picks.

Round 1

TEAM SELECTION
1. Toronto Raptors Andrea Bargnani (Italy)
2. Chicago Bulls LaMarcus Aldridge (Texas)
3. Charlotte Bobcats Adam Morrison (Gonzanga)
4. Portland Trailblazers Tyrus Thomas (LSU)
5. Atlanta Hawks Shelden Williams (Duke)
6. Minnesota Timberwolves Brandon Roy (Washington)
7. Boston Celtics Randy Foye (Villanova)
8. Houston Rockets Rudy Gay (UConn)
9. Golden State Warriors Patrick O'Bryant (Bradley)
10. Seattle Supersonics Saer Sene (Senegal)
11. Orlando Magic J.J. Redick (Duke)
12. N.O./Oklahoma City Hornets Hilton Armstrong (UConn)
13. Philadelphia 76ers Thabo Sefolosha (Switzerland)
14. Utah Jazz Ronnie Brewer (Arkansas)
15. N.O./Oklahoma City Hornets Cedric Simmons (N.C. State) from Milwaukee
16. Chicago Bulls Rodney Carney (Memphis)
17. Indiana Pacers Shawne Williams (Memphis)
18. Washington Wizards Oleksiy Pecherov (Ukraine)
19. Sacramento Kings Quincy Douby (Rutgers)
20. New York Knicks Renaldo Balkman (South Carolina)from Denver
21. Phoenix Suns Rajon Rondo (Kentucky)LA Lakers
22. New Jersey Nets Marcus Williams (UConn)LA Clippers
23. New Jersey Nets Josh Boone (UConn)
24. Memphis Grizzlies Kyle Lowry (Villanova)
25. Cleveland Cavaliers Shannon Brown (Michigan State)
26. LA Lakers Jordan Farmar (UCLA)from Miami Heat
27. Phoenix Suns Sergio Rodriguez (Spain)
28. Dallas Mavericks Maurice Ager (Michigan State)
29. New York Knicks Mardy Collins (Temple)from San Antonio
30. Portland Trailblazers Joel Freeland (England)from Detroit


[Edited by - playa2 on 19-06-2008 12:50]
JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
fishmike
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6/19/2008  12:47 PM
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by crzymdups:

Alexander is going to be good. he minds of Granger in some ways.
I think he plays with a bigger chip on his shoulder than DG. I have yet to be called by Walsh for advice but right now this is the guy I am taking. I have a feeling he might be gone though..

he'd be gone at 6?!?!?!? that'd be interesting.
why? after Rose/Beas/Mayo the general top 3 who is better than Alexander? I know he doesnt have gaudy stats but he's an NBA player. He's skilled. He plays with great intensity. He's clearly driven to be the best he can possibly be. He might be the best athlete in the draft. Two way player. Maybe he's not on a radar like some higher profile guys. Hard to see why though.. He's not the sexy star type, but he could be a blue collar star type. Just a guy that wins and plays his ass off every minute.. the kind of guy I think the Knicks desperatly need.

I think all the same things about Westbrook, but its much harder to make that transition to great NBA PG than to great NBA forward. He's reminds of part Granger part Nocioni. Not always flashy but always solid. Maybe he gets 5 rebs instead of 8 but 4 of the 5 he rips away in traffic around bigger guys.

The guy is a sick sick dunker and MSG will love this guy.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
djsunyc
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6/19/2008  12:48 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by crzymdups:

Alexander is going to be good. he minds of Granger in some ways.
I think he plays with a bigger chip on his shoulder than DG. I have yet to be called by Walsh for advice but right now this is the guy I am taking. I have a feeling he might be gone though..

even tho he sports the same brandon walsh 90210 sideburns like you still do, can we chill with the man crush?

he'll go after 6...could go before 10 tho...
nyk4ever
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6/19/2008  12:51 PM
Posted by djsunyc:



even tho he sports the same brandon walsh 90210 sideburns like you still do
, can we chill with the man crush?

he'll go after 6...could go before 10 tho...

LOL!!
"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
LivingLegend
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6/19/2008  1:28 PM
Posted by playa2:

Look at the 2006 draft, nothing is guaranteed to be a real good player 1-6.

We have to go big at 6 , you can always nget a guard just look at lower picks.

Round 1

TEAM SELECTION
1. Toronto Raptors Andrea Bargnani (Italy)
2. Chicago Bulls LaMarcus Aldridge (Texas)
3. Charlotte Bobcats Adam Morrison (Gonzanga)
4. Portland Trailblazers Tyrus Thomas (LSU)
5. Atlanta Hawks Shelden Williams (Duke)
6. Minnesota Timberwolves Brandon Roy (Washington)
7. Boston Celtics Randy Foye (Villanova)
8. Houston Rockets Rudy Gay (UConn)
9. Golden State Warriors Patrick O'Bryant (Bradley)
10. Seattle Supersonics Saer Sene (Senegal)
11. Orlando Magic J.J. Redick (Duke)
12. N.O./Oklahoma City Hornets Hilton Armstrong (UConn)
13. Philadelphia 76ers Thabo Sefolosha (Switzerland)
14. Utah Jazz Ronnie Brewer (Arkansas)
15. N.O./Oklahoma City Hornets Cedric Simmons (N.C. State) from Milwaukee
16. Chicago Bulls Rodney Carney (Memphis)
17. Indiana Pacers Shawne Williams (Memphis)
18. Washington Wizards Oleksiy Pecherov (Ukraine)
19. Sacramento Kings Quincy Douby (Rutgers)
20. New York Knicks Renaldo Balkman (South Carolina)from Denver
21. Phoenix Suns Rajon Rondo (Kentucky)LA Lakers
22. New Jersey Nets Marcus Williams (UConn)LA Clippers
23. New Jersey Nets Josh Boone (UConn)
24. Memphis Grizzlies Kyle Lowry (Villanova)
25. Cleveland Cavaliers Shannon Brown (Michigan State)
26. LA Lakers Jordan Farmar (UCLA)from Miami Heat
27. Phoenix Suns Sergio Rodriguez (Spain)
28. Dallas Mavericks Maurice Ager (Michigan State)
29. New York Knicks Mardy Collins (Temple)from San Antonio
30. Portland Trailblazers Joel Freeland (England)from Detroit


[Edited by - playa2 on 19-06-2008 12:50]


Damn Balkman doesn't look all that bad considering some of the bums in that 1st round. I know Zeke took much heat for passing on the point guards (me included) at the time but damn look at some of the guys picked ahead of him who've yet to do squat.
fishmike
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6/19/2008  1:29 PM
piss off I shaved those burns.

And I am dating a 21 year old (Enyspree said it was OK)

Who's your daddy now
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
sebstar
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6/19/2008  2:40 PM
Posted by LivingLegend:
Posted by playa2:

Look at the 2006 draft, nothing is guaranteed to be a real good player 1-6.

We have to go big at 6 , you can always nget a guard just look at lower picks.

Round 1

TEAM SELECTION
1. Toronto Raptors Andrea Bargnani (Italy)
2. Chicago Bulls LaMarcus Aldridge (Texas)
3. Charlotte Bobcats Adam Morrison (Gonzanga)
4. Portland Trailblazers Tyrus Thomas (LSU)
5. Atlanta Hawks Shelden Williams (Duke)
6. Minnesota Timberwolves Brandon Roy (Washington)
7. Boston Celtics Randy Foye (Villanova)
8. Houston Rockets Rudy Gay (UConn)
9. Golden State Warriors Patrick O'Bryant (Bradley)
10. Seattle Supersonics Saer Sene (Senegal)
11. Orlando Magic J.J. Redick (Duke)
12. N.O./Oklahoma City Hornets Hilton Armstrong (UConn)
13. Philadelphia 76ers Thabo Sefolosha (Switzerland)
14. Utah Jazz Ronnie Brewer (Arkansas)
15. N.O./Oklahoma City Hornets Cedric Simmons (N.C. State) from Milwaukee
16. Chicago Bulls Rodney Carney (Memphis)
17. Indiana Pacers Shawne Williams (Memphis)
18. Washington Wizards Oleksiy Pecherov (Ukraine)
19. Sacramento Kings Quincy Douby (Rutgers)
20. New York Knicks Renaldo Balkman (South Carolina)from Denver
21. Phoenix Suns Rajon Rondo (Kentucky)LA Lakers
22. New Jersey Nets Marcus Williams (UConn)LA Clippers
23. New Jersey Nets Josh Boone (UConn)
24. Memphis Grizzlies Kyle Lowry (Villanova)
25. Cleveland Cavaliers Shannon Brown (Michigan State)
26. LA Lakers Jordan Farmar (UCLA)from Miami Heat
27. Phoenix Suns Sergio Rodriguez (Spain)
28. Dallas Mavericks Maurice Ager (Michigan State)
29. New York Knicks Mardy Collins (Temple)from San Antonio
30. Portland Trailblazers Joel Freeland (England)from Detroit


[Edited by - playa2 on 19-06-2008 12:50]


Damn Balkman doesn't look all that bad considering some of the bums in that 1st round. I know Zeke took much heat for passing on the point guards (me included) at the time but damn look at some of the guys picked ahead of him who've yet to do squat.

No doubt, Zeke didnt do us dirty in the '06 draft. Looking at the picks, 06 is attempting to position itself in the running as one of the sorriest drafts in history. Certainly will be in the convo.
My saliva and spit can split thread into fiber and bits/ So trust me I'm as live as it gets. --Royce Da 5'9 + DJ Premier = Hip Hop Utopia
fishmike
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6/19/2008  3:07 PM
Brandon Roy and Rudy Gay are pretty damn good options to have at 6.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
crzymdups
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6/19/2008  3:09 PM
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by crzymdups:
Posted by fishmike:
Posted by crzymdups:

Alexander is going to be good. he minds of Granger in some ways.
I think he plays with a bigger chip on his shoulder than DG. I have yet to be called by Walsh for advice but right now this is the guy I am taking. I have a feeling he might be gone though..

he'd be gone at 6?!?!?!? that'd be interesting.
why? after Rose/Beas/Mayo the general top 3 who is better than Alexander? I know he doesnt have gaudy stats but he's an NBA player. He's skilled. He plays with great intensity. He's clearly driven to be the best he can possibly be. He might be the best athlete in the draft. Two way player. Maybe he's not on a radar like some higher profile guys. Hard to see why though.. He's not the sexy star type, but he could be a blue collar star type. Just a guy that wins and plays his ass off every minute.. the kind of guy I think the Knicks desperatly need.

I think all the same things about Westbrook, but its much harder to make that transition to great NBA PG than to great NBA forward. He's reminds of part Granger part Nocioni. Not always flashy but always solid. Maybe he gets 5 rebs instead of 8 but 4 of the 5 he rips away in traffic around bigger guys.

The guy is a sick sick dunker and MSG will love this guy.

I don't disagree with you about the type of player he is, i just highly doubt he's gone by 6. he won't go top 5. i think up thru pick 7 you will see a run on the guards.

despite playa saying we need to go big, when there are quality guards in the top of the lotto they are usually solid NBA players. Walsh has said we can't have a miss with this pick. that leads me to believe their board is:

1) Mayo
2) Bayless
3) Westbrook
4) trade out
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fishmike
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6/19/2008  3:29 PM
makes sense... who knows. Remember how far Granger fell? He had injury concerns however. I just dont see Bayless.. unless he showed much superior PG skills in workouts than he did in CBB. I guess is Waltoni drafts him I would keep an open mind.

With TJ Ford being on the block I would MUCH rather draft Alexander and work on a package for Ford. Malik's expiring, cash and Nate... make it happen
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
TMS
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6/19/2008  4:26 PM
Posted by TrueBlue:
Posted by BRIGGS:

As we continue to work the phones to discuss with teams who they hear is going where, we first of all need to establish which prospects will be on the board. At this point it’s clear that there is a fairly significant drop-off in this year’s draft class right around the 12th (Sacramento) or 13th (Portland) pick, as all the prospects that are getting mentions have some serious “warts” in the words of one NBA executive, which make teams hesitant about drafting them. The question is which will be overlooked, and which will cause players to slip.

wow--i said the same thing? but some of the draft experts here who have a solid history dissecting the draft have concluded there was no drop off and want to draft players who will be there in round 2 just so we can give up a lottrey pick at 6 to get rid of someone we can easily just buyout.



Did you keep digging or did you stop because here's what Draftexpress said in DJ's thread....


Players that might find themselves being drafted a bit lower than they hoped include DeAndre Jordan, JaVale McGee, and possibly even Anthony Randolph. If Sacramento selects Darrell Arthur at #12 like many NBA sources we spoke with anticipate (this was his last workout stop before cancelling numerous workouts), then Randolph could be in for quite a tumble, as he would likely continue to slip past Portland at #13, Golden State at #14, Phoenix at #15, until reaching Philadelphia at #16. That’s about 10 spots lower than some mocks have him projected right now, but isn’t out of the question depending on how things play out next week. Randolph is not helping himself reportedly with the way he’s working out, being very average so far according to numerous people who’ve watched him, looking “laid back” or even “out of shape.” Compounding the problem is that he may have recently hurt his shoulder.



Muwaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!!! Those people that said the draft will shape itself up where some projected Top Talents will slip are more than likely going to be correct. Which means there will be depth at pick 16. It's a cold hard fact and add to the fact the players that slip could prove to turn out to be studs.

BTW from this write it appears Randolph isn't a CAN'T MISS PLAYER AT 6.



[Edited by - TrueBlue on 06-19-2008 10:24 AM]

oh brother, patting oneself on the back for a snippet of an article & not quoting the entire story where it completely contradicts what you were predicting to begin with is just plain wrong... BRIGGS BRIGGS BRIGGS *sigh*
After 7 years & 40K+ posts, banned by martin for calling Nalod a 'moron'. Awesome.
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